101

@adjppm1227

Don’t give up. Go to sleep, take a break, it’ll look better in the morning.

  1. There’s a couple of ways to make more stat-charts. The official way is to add a next button to the stat-chart as opposed to fiddling with the code though.

  2. I agree testing is annoying and frustrating. I’m still on a Windows XP machine so I’ve no idea how it works on Windows 8. I know I had a big struggle to get testing to work properly and I found it really frustrating to start with. I had to use the run code and go into the directory and type the same command over and over and I’m sure there’s an easier way to do it but I just couldn’t figure it out. The wiki instructions on how to do it didn’t make any sort of sense to me.

  3. I don’t think Choicescript changes that frequently. You don’t need to download the new version unless you want to either. Which reminds me, I probably should.

Take a break. You’re not alone. You’ve a lot of people who love your ideas. The initial difficulty bump of getting used to everything is by far the worst part. Once you get over that hurdle though it does become easier.

102

What are you trying to do? My first night was three hours of endless errors; now I only get them when I experiment.

If I can do it on my phone, you can do it on a PC; buck up, boy!

103

@FairyGodfeather

  1. I’ve made 5 stat charts in one, I simply don’t think the official way to do it should be playing with your code. The option should come as a packaged deal.

  2. And there’s the problem-something which is created for amusement, should not be created in frustration. I believe I originally said here, “I’m very deal-oriented.” And I still am. But I prefer detail to be a vastness, a boundless stretch of endless variation, then the zoom-in of a micro-organism in which I study its complexities. Would it not be simpler, I propose, if ChoiceScript was not a Script, but almost as if a writing feature? Bear with me when I say-most of what you write appears on the screen. So, I propose the following.

This is what you see when you play the game:

XXX (writing)

This is what I think would be easier:

X (place for *if, *elseif, *else)

XXX (writing)

XX (place for *page_break, *choice, *goto, *finish)

Would that not be easier, than reading some damnable code-language?

  1. It is not that ChoiceScript changes often (drastically), it is when it does, the version of writing you have is obsolete. I like to think of myself as a progressivist. But there is one problem with progressivism in games where people are trying to sell you something.

If you work on a game for 5 years, and 3 months before you finish, the format changes, you now have to go back and change YOUR format in order for it to work “to standard.” Thus the problem.

104

@ADNox It is not the fact that I get errors that annoys me (generally), but the fact the I am not told how to fix them. It is on par with one saying, “You’re wrong,” and not telling me how to be right.

105

@adjppm1227, hang in there. Don’t know if any of these thoughts will be at all helpful, but this is what came to mind reading your complaints.

  1. I’ve been writing for two years without updating the version of CS I’m working with, and last week finally downloaded the new version. Nothing I’d written was obsolete – everything worked fine with the new system. (NB: I’d done relatively little tampering with .js files other than mygame.js, because like you I don’t enjoy playing with code). Purely for my own convenience, I decided to use the new startup.txt approach to title, stats, scenes, etc., just so I never have to open mygame.js or any other .js file again. It only took me fifteen minutes to copy things across from mygame.js and my old “intro” scene into the new “startup” one and make sure everything was working. So I wouldn’t let the prospect of obsolescence stress you out. It shouldn’t be a problem unless you’re technically ambitious enough to be tweaking the underlying code as well as .txt files.

  2. As long as you don’t want the text inside a XXX block to vary based on choices, you should be able to write a ChoiceScript game pretty much like what you just described – a bit of code X, a chunk of text XXX, a bit more code XX, rinse, repeat. The only thing you’d need to worry about would be making sure the number of tabs/spaces in front of the XXX block matched whatever spacing you had before and after it. That’s not nothing, but it’s something that comes pretty readily with practice.

Now, the more you want details to vary, the smaller those XXX blocks become (down to sentences or fragments) and the more you end up using ${} inside them to display things like names and pronouns… but if as you say you don’t care about that level of detailed variation, then I’d have thought CS was already set up to do pretty much what you’re describing?

  1. As for the tests, I’ve never run them… tried a couple times, found it hard, and thought “you know what, I have more fun just playtesting my game until it breaks anyway.” The website guidance (“If you’re not sure how to run a .bat file, see if you can find someone to give you a demonstration”) is painfully useless.

@CJW recently put together a webpage where you can plug in blocks of CS code and see if it all works. But it’s still of limited use because it doesn’t work with your global stats or multiple scenes. To those who know: how tough would it be to create a testing website where users could upload a zipped batch of .txt files (now that everything of substance can be in .txt, not .js) and have it automatically run quicktest and randomtest on them? If it were simple, I assume it would already exist…

  1. “The official way” to do multiple stats charts has never been playing with your code. Officially, there’s never been a “multiple stats buttons” option… which is why people who wanted to do it have tampered with the code in a couple of .js files to make it possible. Dan just clarified that officially, the way to have multiple stats screens is to add choices inside the choicescript_stats.txt file, which is a text file like all the rest.
106

@Adjppm1227

The official way is to just add a *goto on the stats screen. That’s not really playing with code, that’s just using the text file. That’s the only way that’s officially supported too.

Now I’ll admit I went in and edited my files, added extra stats buttons simply because I wanted to know how. They actually ended up being obselete but there was a good walkthrough somewhere that I followed. (Either on the forums or the wiki, I can’t remember).

I also went in changed the background colour and that of the next bars because I just wanted to say I did. Those changes were just cosmetic and wouldn’t be supported if I published the game. You don’t need to make any of those sorts of changes. If you do then they’re not supported. So don’t worry about them.

The initial learning curve is difficult. One of the things I did was look at the code for other games. Some of them are extremely elaborate. Look at the official games, especially the earlier ones.

You can make choicescript a writing feature though. You should be able to do it just like you’ve said.

The version you’re using isn’t obselete. The latest change they made just makes things even easier. But you don’t need to use those changes. I’ve not downloaded them yet. It’s not quite as terrible as you think.

Still if it’s not fun it’s not fun.

107

@Havenstone (<—badass name)

  1. The problem I’m getting at (and I may be wrong, as codes aren’t my forte) is that if you were to try and sell what you’ve made, you’d need to change it. Strictly speaking, that’s bad business.

  2. No, what I mean is like a fill-in-the-box type of this. For example, imagine the first page of a ChoiceScript game. The way we normally create is by writing (to be honest, a rather complex) format of indents, spaces, returns, and commands. I’m suggesting, however, that what the creater has in front of them is *like* what the player has.

If the player has this screen:

l…*writing writing…l
l…writing writing…l
l…writing writing…l
l…writing writing*…l
l…l
l…*choices*…l
l…*Next button*…l
l--------------------l

then in my idea, the writer has this screen:

l *place for *if, *elseif, *else *l
l…l
l *place for writing _____ …l
l ______________________ …l
l ______________________… l
l ______________________*…l
l…l
l *place for *choices*…l
l…l
l *next button*…l

Seems easier, to me, to just create the game page-by-page rather than use some lanky text in Notepad.

  1. My first thought on reading that was, “What the fuck, this is your function, it’s YOUR job to tell me how it works.” It’s totally infantile to say (and this is what they said in a blunter sense), “Fuck off, we’re too busy, find someone else.”

The problem is, the tests aren’t meant to be all-inclusive in a sense of functioning. If you have Windows 8, it may work differently than Windows XP, and Windows 6 may need to take a totally different route.

  1. I see. Then I’ve done it the “official” way. Then wouldn’t it eliminate the point of having multiple ones, via code-tampering? It seems devolutionary to ChoiceScript progression.
108

@FairyGodfeather What I was talking about is what I have in the comment above. Can I actually use that, or are we misunderstanding each other?

And it is fun, like writing is fun. I just think it’s vast complex, and they should try and make the differentiation more apparent.

For example, when I copy-paste in my ChoiceScript (I refuse to type the same five paragraphs twenty times), I run the risk of doing it in the wrong place and breaking my Script, because it *all looks the same.*

109

I like the idea of making page by page, kind of making it more of a program like the one in Choose Your Story (I think thats the site)

But I don’t mind the current scripting either. It’s easy once you get the hang of it and allows for more expirimenting with different methods.

110

Yes you can do it like you’ve posted above. You would need to do.

*if BLAH goto writing1
*elseif BLAHBLAH goto writing2

*label writing1
PLACE FOR WRITING

Place for choices
*goto next

*label writing2
PLACE FOR WRITING

Place for choices
*goto next

Now if you wanted a new notepad file for every single encounter you could do that with goto_scene instead. You can’t make use of temporary variables while doing that but that’s not so much of an issue.

Have you had a look at the Choice of the Dragon code? I suggest Choice of the Dragon since it’s the shortest, simplest of the games.

https://www.choiceofgames.com/dragon/scenes/ start at the startup.txt

Some of the code’s obsolete now but you’ll note the game does actually still work. I found the code fairly easy to understand too.

Are you using notepad++ and the choicescript syntax highlighter to code?

Can you upload what you have to a public dropbox so someone can take a look at it?

111

@FairyGodfeather I’m using notepad and as for the ChoiceScript syntax highlighter…I have no idea what that is. LOL.

And it was easy to understand, it just seems annoying to make. For example…

*choice X
#XX
XXX
*goto A
#XY
XXY
*goto B
*label A
*choice x
#xx
xxx
*goto AA
#xy
xxy
*goto AB
*label B
*choice y
#yy
yyy
*goto BA
#yx
yyx
*goto BB
*label AA

…and so on, and quickly, even two choices are separated by paragraphs worth of ChoiceScript.

And I still think we’re misunderstanding each other. I mean, if you could use the player’s screen to write. As in, *what the play will see,* only slightly different. Like when you play a game, you see wording and a grayish backing. My idea is: when you write the game, you see the grayish backing and boxes for *if, *elseif, and *else, the writing the player sees, and boxes for *choice, *goto, *page_break, *finish. What you’re proposing is still in ChoiceScript form.

112

Okay! That’s part of your problem.

Download Notepad++ It’s a text editor specifically for coding. It will make things a hundred times easier for you. It keeps track of indentations.

http://www.notepad-plus-plus.org/

The wiki says “Two quick tips for using Notepad++. First, you may want to turn off auto indent. Go to Settings > Preferences > MISC. and uncheck Auto-indent. Second, you may want to turn on word-wrap. The option to turn it on or off should be on the main task bar, but can also be found under View. Leaving Auto-indent on may make a mess of indentation, as Notepad++ does not auto indent in a way that is necessarily compatible with ChoiceScript, and word-wrap will keep the page from scrolling off to the side with full paragraphs.”

I kept auto-indent on though and I just turned on wordwrap.

Secondly download the choicescript syntax highlighter

There’s instructions on how to do that on the wiki http://choicescriptdev.wikia.com/wiki/Notepad++_Syntax_Highlighter

Oh you’ll be looking for another code-language if you want to use the window like that. There are actually easier options than choicescript out there, choicescript is rather versatile though once you get the grips with it. Try using notepad++ first though to write your code. It really improves things.

113

You’ll notice that I bumped a topic on cIDEr though. If you’re feeling like it you could try and contact one of the creators of it. It seems to be a school project where a team were looking to create exactly what you wanted for choicescript.

114

How long do you plan on making the story, like 100,000 words or something?

115

@Badger Please, don’t blow up my mind.

116

I am deeply sorry. Its just this game will hopefully be long.

117

@adjppm1227
What you sounds like you want is a Graphical User Interface (GUI), so you just click a load of intuitive buttons and it makes the game for you:

What should happen next?
Insert Choice
How many options are there?
123…etc
What happens if you click option 1?
*goto*goto_scenecheck *if …

Even though I don’t think that’s exactly what you’re after - am I on the right tracks?

Two problems with that, assuming it is what you want, one it’s not easy to code a GUI for something like this - If you think choicescript is difficult to understand, times that difficulty by a thousand and you might be close to how hard it would be to make a GUI for choicescript.

Second, it makes things stale. With choicescript as it is you can use it to do anything you like, people of all skill levels and ambitions can use it.

If you’re not keen on the coding you can probably get by making a - simple - game with nothing but *choice, *page_break and *goto.

If you’re feeling more adventurous you can create something like the standard of games we see on the website or around the forums. If you’re even so inclined you can edit the CS interpreter and then (technically) do anything you want. There’s no unrealistic limit. I mean if you think *label BB “text here” *goto AA is annoying to make, what do you make of this?

If you find basic CS too complicated, simply put, it just may not be for you. I’d recommend giving TWINE a try, it has a visual interface that may be more to your liking. Of course it has disadvantages as well, but that’s the point; while it may be hard to get to grips with CS at first, it’s a very flexible framework.

If there was nothing but a GUI, you’d be limited to whatever those buttons offer you, and always would be.

@FairyGodfeather @Havenstone
Systems like “cIDEr” aren’t unrealistic, I’ve considered making one, I know @Vendetta considered making/supporting one when he was around, @lordirish sees the need for one and I would wager even CoG have something in the pipeline.
The problem isn’t so much ability, but time. While it wouldn’t be inconceivable to make such a system, it would most certainly take a large chunk of someone’s time to do so.

118

I’m doing fine with Choicescript as it is, admittedly. I love Notepad++ and the syntax highlighter. I’m actually surprised by how easy Choicescript is.

I do get muddled with the various if statements, and I’ve not done anything that complex with it, or variables yet. But the thing is, I don’t need to. I can make my ridiculously simple game with its really ugly code. I do like the degree of flexibility there is.

What I imagined was something similar to Twine, or hmm maybe Quest http://textadventures.co.uk/quest/ or Inklewriter http://www.inklestudios.com/inklewriter or there was something else I downloaded the same time as Twine, which was a little more complex and I took one look at went “too many buttons” and ran screaming from and now I can’t remember what it is. I know there’s some other CYOA style sites out there with easier interfaces.

Personally I like this site though, I like the community, and I’m sure I can eventually work out how to make the code do what I want it to.

119

If you really want a What You See Is What You Get GUI, I suggest you take a look at something like StoryNexus, where you can see and edit the story cards. It isn’t well suited to a ChoiceScript-style game at all but the UI is pretty much point, click, type.

120

Oh! Storymaker, that was the other thing I downloaded same time as twine and I’ve just spent the last few hours trying to remember. http://sm.axmasoft.com/en/