# What Makes A Good Villain **URL:** \ **Category:** Writing and Content\ **Created:** [July 1, 2017, 3:17am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176 "2017-07-01T03:17:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ag-1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/ag-1/32/73628_2.png) [@ag-1](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/ag-1)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 11:10am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/43 "2017-07-04T11:10:53Z")
A good villain is vulnerable and has strong conviction. ---
**Author:** ![Tristin\_McComas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/tristin_mccomas/32/178400_2.png) [@Tristin\_McComas](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Tristin_McComas)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/44 "2017-07-04T21:37:30Z")
Well to be honest it just depends. To me a good villain isnt just everything the good guy isnt. He or she should be smart strong good at fighting but excel in one and be well rounded after. And as for back stories well heroes going bad is kinda over played. But a bad guy who is successfully manipulating the mc and others as well i find brilliant. The red queen is actually a good example of that. Its a great read as well not interactive though ---
**Author:** ![Drakeye](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/drakeye/32/198625_2.png) [@Drakeye](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Drakeye)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/45 "2017-07-04T21:50:53Z")
A bad guy doesn’t have to loose, sometimes the hero loosing makes the villain all the more interesting to fight. Heck in the end you could have a great villain not loose in the story and still be a inspiration more so than the heroes of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Tristin\_McComas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/tristin_mccomas/32/178400_2.png) [@Tristin\_McComas](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Tristin_McComas)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/46 "2017-07-07T01:15:21Z")
See i like it whenithe villains win. It shows that they arent bad bad guys. ---
**Author:** ![Drakeye](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/drakeye/32/198625_2.png) [@Drakeye](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Drakeye)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/47 "2017-07-07T01:16:42Z")
yea they are good at their job ---
**Author:** ![Tristin\_McComas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/tristin_mccomas/32/178400_2.png) [@Tristin\_McComas](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Tristin_McComas)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/48 "2017-07-07T01:28:09Z")
Yes and thats better than some cartoon villains who always lose ---
**Author:** ![Hua\_An](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/hua_an/32/39878_2.png) [@Hua\_An](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Hua_An)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:22am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/49 "2017-07-07T04:22:52Z")
They need to have at least a kernel of truth to them. They need to believe they are the good guy and not “HAHAHA I’m so evil” _twirls moustache_. Their motivation needs to make sense. Why exactly do they want to kill this certain person, or take over the world, or wipe out this town? There needs to be a thoughtful reason. Hell, even Hitler had one and he’s like the epitome of evil. ---
**Author:** ![ParrotWatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/parrotwatcher/32/49963_2.png) [@ParrotWatcher](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/ParrotWatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 6:25am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/50 "2017-07-07T06:25:07Z")
> [@Tristin\_McComas](#): > > Yes and thats better than some cartoon villains who always lose Of course, if the villains always win, then it’s not a good story either. If the heroes can’t do anything, then the audience will stop caring as much about them. Obviously the villains need some victories to keep them credible threats, but the heroes need some victories, too, to remind the audience exactly who they’re supposed to be rooting for. (Exactly who’s winning at any one time will depend on the plot structure, but it will generally switch back and forth over the story.) ---
**Author:** ![hustlertwo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/hustlertwo/32/34230_2.png) [@hustlertwo](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/hustlertwo)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 7:10am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/51 "2017-07-08T07:10:20Z")
Based on what you like in a villain, I hope you are already watching Fargo. That sounds a lot like V. M. Vargas from this season. ---
**Author:** ![Sovereign2Lilith](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/sovereign2lilith/32/11280_2.png) [@Sovereign2Lilith](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Sovereign2Lilith)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/52 "2017-07-10T17:57:21Z")
For a villain antagonist, they must be at least as smart as the protagonist. Being tricked and slowly unravelling the villain’s master plan and maybe finding out who you thought was the real villain was really only a puppet, is more entertaining than just fighting and losing (or winning by always picking the same one maxed skill) every battle. Since this is interactive fiction, having a relatable villain who has a logical reason for being a villain opens up more interaction options. The MC might choose to try to convince the villain to join the good side or the MC could find out that were fighting for the wrong side and join the antagonist. The MC could choose to let the villain live at the final battle which probably would not be a popular choice if facing a super strong chaotic irredeemable pure evil villain that would continue killing the MC as soon as they were let free. For villain protagonists/ MCs, I like to have a good reason for being “evil” like rebelling against corruption or being more of a moral gray, because there are enough truely evil villains in real life. I would be OK being a comic book type chaotic villain as long as I’m not really a real threat to anyone and the game is more humorous than dark. A variety of play styles would be important for a MC. High powered and super evil MC’s might be killed on the spot by heros if a battle is failed while low powered/low evil villains could be more likely spared or maybe turn into a double/triple agent . ---
**Author:** ![Vertigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/vertigo/32/136197_2.png) [@Vertigo](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Vertigo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 11:44pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/53 "2017-07-26T23:44:50Z")
I’ve been thinking long and hard about it for these last days, and it reminded me of a discussion I had with a friend a few months back: we where trying to see if there was any “trick” to making good movies, something special, an _arche_ that all the great directors had in the pocket. And we didn’t find one. Sure, there are chamera techniques, good editing skills, experienced screenwriters and, yes, directors, but there is no big consesus of what makes all the (supposedly) good films good. And I think it applies to good villains, as long as you have empathy (the basic of any good writer, I’d say), you’d always be able to create good characters. Or, who knows, maybe I might be off somewhere. But, for now, I’ll go with @Eiwynn’s answer: > [@Eiwynn](#): > > I know it when I see it. ---
**Author:** ![Auser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Auser](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Auser)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/54 "2017-07-28T14:59:26Z")
Well there are many types. And all intriguing in their own way. I find, villains who just want to prove a point in a wrong way, classical maniacs like joker or psychology changed and wronged by society or with dual personality, quite intriguing. It mostly depends on how good they are portrayed. My personal favourite novals are in which there is no hero or villain it’s up to reader to decide who was right. ---
**Author:** ![Snoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/snoe/32/149921_2.png) [@Snoe](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Snoe)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/55 "2017-07-29T17:48:11Z")
A good villain is a horrible being and yet at some point they do something sympathetic or during something that shouldn’t be funny or shocking they manage to do just that. In essence a good villain should make you feel conflicted. ---
**Author:** ![Sophia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/sophia/32/158272_2.png) [@Sophia](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Sophia)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/56 "2017-07-29T20:09:13Z")
> [@Snoe](#): > > In essence a good villain should make you feel conflicted. Like how the villain became a villain? No one is born evil, so there must be a reason why the bad guy suddenly turns into another kind of person. For example; (In my story) King Andus became cold and heartless after losing his loved ones. It would make other players feel sympathetic and think the other way rather than killing the villain. ---
**Author:** ![Snoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/snoe/32/149921_2.png) [@Snoe](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Snoe)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/57 "2017-07-29T20:14:11Z")
Something like that. But also, think of joker when he does something that you laugh at but the second after you realize how morbid that was. Ei) him dressed as a nurse and blowing up a hospital. It’s hilarious but horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Mewsly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/mewsly/32/79504_2.png) [@Mewsly](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Mewsly)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/58 "2017-07-30T01:00:36Z")
I think the most important thing is that the villain fits your story. I love charming, suave villains and I love goofy villains who try hard to be evil but really aren’t, but those villains don’t fit every story. You can’t take, say, an over the top Disney villain and put it in a serious, realist drama (or you could but it would be really off-putting). A good villain will compliment your story, your theme, your tone, and your protagonist. They are another piece of the puzzle, another brush stroke on the canvas. ---
**Author:** ![Umbreonpanda](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/umbreonpanda/32/33405_2.png) [@Umbreonpanda](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Umbreonpanda)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/59 "2017-07-30T01:01:41Z")
Personally, I like a villian with a good sense of humor. ---
**Author:** ![Terrell\_Williams](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/terrell_williams/32/269406_2.png) [@Terrell\_Williams](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Terrell_Williams)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/60 "2017-07-30T02:05:12Z")
Just for the fun it Joker ![HeathJoker](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/original/3X/1/8/181a0e4632dc13c56d4bca9a1f6110993b973746.png) ---
**Author:** ![Sleepyowl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/sleepyowl/32/14482_2.png) [@Sleepyowl](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Sleepyowl)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 4:48am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/61 "2017-07-30T04:48:23Z")
It’s quite shallow, but sometimes a villain’s name can make or break the effect they’re going for. I once named the villain of a novel purely so he could feasibly have the nickname Beelzebub in one throwaway line. Though he was a fairly minor villain all things considered, I don’t think I’d be that silly otherwise. But on point, I think the name is important for any character, villain or not. It has to be, otherwise all the time I spent agonising over names is pointless. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Silver\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/the_silver_case/32/30204_2.png) [@The\_Silver\_Case](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/The_Silver_Case)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176/62 "2017-08-24T14:02:40Z")
> If I may [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqMxH0atn18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqMxH0atn18) > also dis may help [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFUKeD3FJm8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFUKeD3FJm8) [Previous page](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/what-makes-a-good-villain/28176.md?page=2)