ooooh, those heights are really close to the actors I was envisioning for each character! That makes me stupidly happy~
I guess we can use Sem’s height to guesstimate ours, huh? Because I think I remember if you asked him to help find clothes for the dance, then depending on your nation and gender, he’d make a comment about you being half a head shorter/half a head taller/around the same height.
i am…heartbroken 
but not surprised! lol 
the same thing happened with my little brother when he got old enough.
not like it stopped me of course, 
at least there’s always fanfiction….
Hey Leigh! Long post ahead, but I thought it was important to talk to you about.
I’ve been following WW updates for… close to 5 years now? And throughout it all, I’ve so greatly enjoyed the books and universe, so thank you for that! It’s always been exciting to go through the games again, especially after learning more from these threads.
Regarding the last major update however, which I have to disclose I have not personally gone through yet, a few non-binary friends of mine were discussing the new implementation of non-binary genders in WW, and some of them felt upset at the way things were handled. In particular, they were upset at the way it felt like gender was heavily associated with biological sex when first selecting which gender they presented as. To quote:
‘I like the idea of Ishim and that as a result, someone’s gender identity is mainly because of what feels right
and I specifically mean feels right
because if I read “I decided I was female” I will also rage
it’s um…
it’s complicated?
but it’s just. “Well, people address me as this, and it doesn’t feel right.”
and then your Angel guardian can just be like “That’s okay! Ishim don’t have a gender, and sometimes when you become [race here], gender roles get imposed on you.”
or something’
It was as though they/the MC would only be trans due to “remembering” their previous sex/their body remembering it, as if it were that all along they were cis and just in this life were born into the wrong body/sex. Additionally, if they were to choose to be non-binary, it was only because they/their body remembered being a spirit, which felt wrong.
That the option to change your mind from being non-binary back to cis again being “No, on second thought, I think I really do feel like I am what my body is,” and the trans option being “Yes! I’ve always felt as if I was a girl/boy, despite my body,” just further exacerbated the focus on the body, which was frustrating.
They (as do I, but I am not non-binary, so I relay this for them) very much did appreciate and felt glad that you took the time to code in all of this (trans, non-binary, genderfluid options alike) and include more than just the binary. However, the way the story addressed it left them a little more defeated as the body is not necessarily the basis for gender. They suggested that a better way to try to choose for gender would be like how Eagle’s Heir presented it, with gender and presentation and identity being distinct elements:
“Basically you choose your presentation at the beginning (whether you present more masculine or feminine) and then there’s a childhood flashback where you establish your assigned-at-birth gender and talk to your grandmother about your gender identity, which you can then identify as male/female/not specifically one or the other
it’s nice because it means you can establish yourself/your character as specifically trans in a setting-appropriate way without just picking “trans” from a set list of gender identities, and also because it separates your presentation from your identity
and also it’s very much about feelings and societal perception and not about your body or genitals”
So, I wanted to ask you about your own thoughts on this, and if there’s any possibility of changing the way it’s handled, as I’ve read and understand that gender is really important to you as you have people close to you whose lives have heavily dealt with this topic too. I would love to be able to see changes myself, but more than that, having those close to me (and other non-binary persons) feel comfortable playing WW again is heavily important. WW is an amazing game and universe after all, and there’s a reason why we even discussed this in the first place, as we all have played the games a lot. And even though I do know and realize just how much effort it took on your own part to do something so wonderfully inclusive as to rewrite countless scenes and code to allow for more gender options, the way people first step into gender and identity in WW could be bettered and even more inclusive. Thank you for all your time in this, but please let me know if it’s possible to change this and welcome more people into WW!
Apologies. Brain cramp.
I will take these into consideration and discuss again with my friends who are non binary trans/ect as they we’re the original community members I went to regarding how it was to be handled. I also think I need to process a little bit better exactly how/what yr freinds are referring to-- perhaps have them private message me-- as I don’t think I’m fully understanding from the snippit you shared here exactly what’s problematic. (Then again it might just be this migraine ugh)
That being said please keep in mind I am trying my best to write it as best as I can, but I cannot please everyone with something so complex and viewed so differently by so many, but I will try. :). As far as changes made-- it will depend on what and how and when I can submit again to CoG and of course if things fit into the cannon of WWU.
That Sem used to be the mc and Jun’s mother a few hundred years ago.
Oh, that will mess with the diehard Seem ROs lol XD
I’m a diehard Sem-mancer and I don’t care that was a previous life a long time ago. There’s enough time between it and now that Sem is not literally romancing his previous incarnations children as the mc and Jun left those shells behind a long time ago too.
I’m happy to see that I’m not the only one uhm -what’s the right word? - irritaded (?) at that. For some reason I don’t like the thought of having to deal with the awkwardness of Sem and MC being married in a past life (and exactly the past life they get a vision about too)…I would prefer the blood brothers scenario much more too.
No, really exactly the point about MC’s specifically romantic feelings may being influenced by their last life annnoys me a bit. I guess in the gameworld people would not question it much probably, but here comes the conflict of worldbuilding and what I as player am able to sympathize with and my direct reaction would be for MC to break up with Sem to do some serious hard thinking about the status of their relationship and the authenticity of their feelings in this life, not gushing about “oh my we where married in past life” or worse “Yay, we are destined to be together” (cringes I hate narratives like that). It might be a past life of MC, but practically they aren’t the same person. At least for me they aren’t? So that’s some serious things to consider?
Well, I will see how it actually ends up playing out. Maybe I won’t cringe that much. But I probably won’t like it much either. Never was a fan of domestic scenarios and stuff. I already see MC go “nope we won’t talk about this, this never happened”. (However I think getting that scene is optional anyway? That was mentioned somewhere I think? So I may actually will be able do play “it never happened”…)
I do agree; I feel that the past lives should have no real connection with the current one. I mean, Jun’s whole problem is that his past life is trying to force itself on him, and look what problems that’s caused. Past life romances should have as little to do with the current life as past life sibling relationships… 
Well, I guess I’ll make sure to include that as a reactionary opinion XD
And yes, the “we are destined to be together” thing is a reaction the MC can choose to make. Semryu believe it or not, while perhaps not super-cringy is more of the mind “huh. So that happened. Guess it explains the attraction now. Let’s get lunch”. lol
Yeahhh to be honest that’s exactly where for me the problems start and why I’m really set on to avoid stumbling over that past life reveal in my main playthrough. I like MC’s and Sem’s relationship because it felt very organic to me in contrast to many romantic or even just platonic relationships in other games (tbh…platonic relationships in other games very often get outright ignored in favor of the ros…). And I liked that the romance starts out as “yeah, maybe there is something, let’s give it a try” and continues to develop from there and the friendship that lead to it is very clearly still the main foundation/we don’t have an illogical dynamic shift just because MC and Sem are now a couple.
And then to go “oh yeah, the romantic feelings/attraction comes from the last life” just really destroys that expirience a bit for me. It devalues the development we got in the first two games for me a bit considering that “past life influenced it” angle. (It also shatters a bit the illusion of control that choice games tend to give in a very weird way? In a retroactive “this wasn’t your choice” way? Idk it’s difficult to put in words.)
Also because realistically…MC is only 15 and just tried to figure out for themself how this whole relationship stuff should work out for them and I just can’t wrap my head around it how “yeah let’s revisit a life in which your relationship was on a compleye different level, which is years away from where you are now” could be in any way lead to something positive.
I mean that’s clearly a personal taste thing here and I’m sure very many people will jump at that scene, but I know for me I would hugely prefer to be allowed to decide directly the kind of relationship that Sem and MC had in their past life (what really is not much more meta gaming as indirectly having the player choose by letting it be decided by their relationship status with Sem…it may be more work to implement however and I think that may be the reason this is unlikely to happen) or to be free to never stumble over that scene in my main playthrough. But like I said…just my personal preference.
I’m kind of torn between the camps of ‘I agree, fictional stuff being pre-written is bull’ and ‘fictional stuff being pre-written is epic’. My character would also probably feel torn because she’s a huge romantic, but would also be kind of bothered because ‘my past life shouldn’t define me now’ is her attitude. I guess it just depends on how it’s handled.
Like, “PC and Sem are in love because they were in love once long ago” doesn’t quite sit well with me, because even if there was some carried-over attraction, there was still some measure of choice involved, yeah? PC chose to pursue Sem, Sem chose to say yes, they chose to stay hooked up after the dance, and so on. Your angel guide goes on and on about choices mattering, and the PC can talk about that too. Having it chalked up to “destiny” doesn’t feel right (especially since they aren’t twin-flames, who in WWU ARE destined for each other) because it runs against the theme.
To give another example, “PC and Jun were siblings in a past life and that’s why they felt drawn to each other”, I can buy, because that just serves as a nudge for why their relationship started, instead of justifying what their relationship became. “PC and Jun were siblings in a past life and that’s why they (platonically) love each other”, I’d have a problem with, because it takes away some of the agency of the characters involved. I mean, the PC can be ATTRACTED to Jun, and that’s clearly not sibling-like. So saying all the player’s feelings are because of their past life feels false.
So “PC and Sem were in love in a past life and that’s why they’re together now”, in the context of WWU placing so much emphasis on choice, doesn’t sit well with me. But “PC and Sem were in love in a past life, and that’s why they were drawn to each other” does. It gives them a little boost, but still leaves the decision in their hands.
I dunno if any of this made sense. It did in my head.
Honestly guys I think you might be over thinking this just a wee little bit. Really, truly Semryu downplays it and comments multiple times throughout the game that the “whole destined to be together thing” isn’t his thing. For him it’s just a huh, that’s interesting aspect of things and moves on.
That being said, if you want an option to freak the heck out at the end of it and have Semryu react to that, I can add it in. But, I’m not going to let you pick if you were romantic in a past life or not-- it’s just a little bit too meta for me, essp since most readers are going to want to pick what they are currently in with Sem. (And TBH I need to find any place I can to have less coding work to do it’s as simple as that).
Also keep in mind that being uncomfortable in literature is OK sometimes. Conflict is the point of a story. It leads to charicter development growth and cool fanfics.
And @Sammysam I’m a just gonna message you what’s written already for the scene. I really don’t think it’s as brain breaking as yr making it. Really. I got you. <3
I’m gone for like three hours and I miss a giant discussion regarding the affect of past lives on your MC???
This is what happens when I stick to a regular sleeping schedule, people. I miss all the fun stuff!
[mopes and pouts]
Anyway, if I may be so selfish as to throw my own opinion out there…
I understand what you mean @Sammysam about how you dislike the idea of past lives influencing your current one to such a degree because I’ve specifically designed a character in Children of the Gods to react exactly like that when I plan to have her romance Aeson even though, as opposed to Sem and the MC, the Bearer and Bestower are literally soulmates/each other’s ‘other half’ because I’m secretly a slut for conflict, drama, and heartache.
Although I must admit, I don’t think I have quite so visceral a reaction to this.
To me, a past life where these characters are romantic doesn’t come off to me as their relationship being preordained.
So, unlike in Children of the Gods where the Bearer (your MC) and the Bestower (a potential RO) are actual factual soulmates, in the WWU everyone’s been the village bicycle with each other at least once in their various lifetimes.
There’s been so much rebirth and reincarnation for everyone in this world that it doesn’t urge me to make a character who tries to buck at this system because…frick, I mean you’re reborn after signing a Life Contract that legit details your life, you kinda…I mean…
If there’s anything for your characters to buck against it should be that.
While the Life Contract doesn’t preordain which decisions your character will make, it comes across to me that these Life Contracts do have a measure of influence in what decisions are available to you to begin with.
So for a character to freak out about a past life romance…it just seems like small fries by comparison.
That said, while your Life’s Contract influences what choices will be available, even that doesn’t preordain a decision upon your character.
The Life Contract stipulates what would happen should a character choose this or that or a third option, and the consequence of such options. So the decision to experience it ultimately falls on your character.
The Life Contract contains possibilities but not set decisions.
So while your Life Contract may have had the possibility of your character getting romantically involved with Sem, it also contained the possibilities for all the other ROs and it was ultimately the decision of your character whose romance you would actually experience in this life, not a past life, not anyone else’s decision but yours.
Now, would I like an option to break up with an RO upon finding out that a past life over 1,000 years ago was romantically involved with the same soul?
Yes, because I’m a sadist who likes to watch my characters and their LIs suffer mwahaha.
But that’s, yeah, that’s kinda my only reason for wanting it, lol, otherwise I’m dandy without it.
So yeah, I think Sem’s view pretty much fits my own.
“Huh. Well, at least I didn’t kill you like Jun…so I’m thinking ceviche for lunch? I have just been craving that for the past few days…maybe I’m getting a cold and my body’s trying to gorge on Vitamin C? I should probably eat some oranges…mmmmm, orange chicken…”
GOD, why am I always hungry when I’m on these boards, wtf?
damn, hon, you nailed that for me. Also, i literally just spent the last hour adding this into the reactions for the MC after the past-life:
#“I was hoping we might pretend it never happened, and preferably never speak of it again.”
Semryu arches an eyebrow at you. “All right… though, may I ask why? I admit you’ve got me curious now.” He drums his fingers across his thigh. “And undeniably slightly nervous.”
Taking a deep breath, you reply,
*choice
#“I’m just very uncomfortable with the idea that we’re only together now because, ‘oh, look, we were together then.’”
“I just-- thought we had more choice in the matter,” you continue, feeling lightly nauseous. “And I guess it just seems like, it doesn’t feel as real now? Like, the choices we made, to try being together-- it felt so natural, and now, maybe it wasn’t because of some weird destiny thing.” You hug yourself, shaking your head. “I just want to pretend it never happened. That we didn’t see it. And we can go back to how we we’ve been.”
“Oh, {name}," Semryu says softly, his brows knitted together in obvious concern. "If you really don't want to talk about it after this that's fine-- but please know that I [i]don't[/i] think what we have is disingenuous just because we [i]happened[/i] to make similar choices in the past." Reaching out, he takes your wrist in his hands, long fingers holding the cuff he'd made. "This says [i]family[/i]. I [i]chose[/i] that for you before ever remembering any of this. Just because it's similar doesn't mean it's fated-- that we didn't choose. And even if it were some weird destiny thing, {name}, we’re the ones who set it up. We chose what lives we’d be born into and what were possibilities to happen in them-- but they were always possibilities, not rock-solid destinies. I could have chosen to ignore you, you could have chosen to not believe me about Illyan or refuse to help me. Or stay silent and not tell me how you felt when I was being oblivious at the dance. We could have ended up hating each other. Maybe the past influenced us, but more likely it didn’t, because, well, we didn’t know. All I know now, is from here on out, we still choose to decide what to do with the information. If you choose to ignore it, that’s fine, too.” He smiles slightly. “Just because this is how it played out doesn’t mean we don’t get to choose. We can choose to want what’s given, too. That too, is a choice.”
Wrinkling your nose, you recall that line. “Are you quoting Montage at me, Clansman?”
“Truth is truth.” He shrugs, squeezing your fingers gently before letting you go. “You matter to me because of who you’ve been now, ${sem_nickname}. Nerys was very nice, but as far as I’m concerned, she belongs in the past with Kyusei. You want the subject dropped, it’s dropped. If I mention the past from here on out it’s only got to do with the skills learned or other circumstances. Deal?”
“Deal,” you agree.
“Good.” Scratching the back of his neck, he sighs lightly, looking sheepish. “Now I just have to worry about the fate-lain implications of what Way I want to pick when I actually knew Rhean once.” He shivers. “Believe it or not, ${name}, I do understand how you feel in trying to process all of this.”
“Oh, Sem.” You sigh yourself, the implications of such things now dancing about in your head as well. “Maybe follow my lead and don’t think about it?”
He chuckles. “Excellent idea, ${name}. Perfect, even.”
You ever wanna go deep and write for WW universe, you let me know, @rose-court lol. I might find a job for ya XD
Omg yasss I can’t wait for the game now😭. Right now I’m on a not friends with Jun play through and I have to say I forgot how hard it is to hate them.
@rose-court I know how you feel, I go to one measly Anatomy and Physiology lab, decide to hunt down Salted Caramel Pepsi, and then take a three hour nap with the cats when I get home and finally come on here to see what’s going on and I’ve missed the discovery of aliens, Colombus re-invading America, and pizza being proclaimed the holiest of foods.
My personal reaction would most likely be wow that’s insane/fascinating I knew Sem in a past life/was married to him I couldn’t have imagined that when we first met other than the feeling of familiarity I got and then forgot about, it didn’t connect that it would actually have anything to do with us at all.
Plus a few other reactions but I’m just awake from my post nap coma so bear with me for a bit.
Everyone freaking out about past continuity, but see me shrieking and crying and dancing in a circle. ‘SEM WE WERE MARRIED, WE MIGHT HAVE HAD CHILDREN, THIS IS SO EXCITING, WHAT WAS OUR WEDDING LIKE-’ ‘Shut up, Mim, we’re in the middle of a battlefield’ ‘-but I want to gush some more…’