Vendetta: Rise of a Gangster -- Reinvented



I was just messing with you, I know what “going straight” means in the common parlance and it is fortunately not what Mike Pence might want it to mean, it’s just that as a gay man I’ve always found it a particularly unfortunate combination of words. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
Sarcasm doesn’t always translate well over the interwebs unfortunately.

Also turning into a rat for the government wouldn’t be for my mc.


I don’t really think it’s a good idea. Especially if it wasn’t a part of the plan from the beginning. But it’s not my game, so do what you think is best :blush:


During World War Two, the United States actually had help from the mobs on the West Coast to protect the piers and the ships coming in with various items being sold. I believe the mobs were paid for the “protection” since most of the boys were drafted or volunteered and then shipped off to war in Europe or Asia. I think Luciano’s crew had a role in this situation but I’d have to research online to see.

Interesting fact, yeah. Sure surprised me when I found out.


Heard about that too.


This was actually New York and their port.


It’s a common enough theme in gangster games (such as the Mafia series) keen to excuse themselves with the whole “crime doesn’t pay” thing – although I doubt that was actually Lucid’s motive for including such an ending! Probably just a case of going with the flow.

The best fit in Vendetta would probably be the male Ex-Police Officer. Apparently dismissed from the force for accepting bribes, maybe there’s more to his backstory than actually meets the eye… However, being one of the two least popular backgrounds overall, the chance of ever getting to write his ‘Primary’ story (the only way we could thoroughly explore this story route) seems incredibly slim.

Then again, maybe that would make a difference to his appeal, if he was actually secretly working for “the good guys” from the very beginning, tasked with bringing down the Ginelli Mob from the inside?

History often blurs the two, thanks mostly to Hollywood and a TV series popular in the 50s, both of which play very loose with the actual facts (no surprise there, huh?).

For example, Elliot Ness and his ‘Untouchables’ (agents of the Justice department) are often credited with bringing down Capone, but the truth is they were an inconvenience (albeit an expensive one, since they did succeed in smashing up various Capone places). Every one of the 5000 or so individual bootlegging charges brought against Capone as a result of Ness’ activities were dismissed by a Federal court, for simple lack of any real evidence linking Capone to any of his street-level operations. Ness was a glory-seeker, often tipping off reporters about his impending raids so he could make the news – which meant that quite often the Capone outfit also heard about them in advance, and thereby avoided far more serious losses.

It was Revenue agents (a special investigations unit of the Treasury department) who actually brought down Capone, on Income Tax charges. They proved he spent it, therefore he must have earned it, but hadn’t paid tax on it. It was one of these Revenue agents who actually infiltrated the fringes of the Capone gang and spent months living in the same hotel that Capone used as his HQ, undercover as a gangster from Philadelphia laying low in Chicago. He proved instrumental in the case with the information he gathered – including being able to warn his colleagues that Capone had put a $50,000 hit contract on each of four agents involved in the investigation… Once it became common knowledge, saner heads in the gang talked Capone out of going ahead with that massacre.

After his conviction, Capone was quite magnanimous – “You fooled me,” he said to the agent, “because you look like a wop.” (He was of Polish-Irish descent).

That undercover agent would later became head of the US Secret Service. He was never one of Ness’s vaunted “Untouchables”.

It was indeed. If memory serves, they had a lot of trouble with sabotage on the docks by German agents, and spies alerting lurking U-Boats to ship departures. The mob controlled the Longshoremen’s unions, and the government approached ‘Lucky’ Luciano (who was in prison at the time) to use his influence with the NY families to root out the saboteurs.


No real surprises here, with 25% preferring Ma Gioverdi’s Diner (Vinnie Mangano), and 15% each for heading home (Dino Zaganis) and Chuck’s Place (Uncle Luigi). 30% don’t tend to favor one over the other, while 15% admit they haven’t replayed enough to have a real preference.

Conclusion: there will be some tweaking here to ensure that no particular background is too limited in their “best route” by starting stats alone. Chuck’s Place will also be more attractive as an early route into the lucrative Loansharking racket, and Dino’s payroll heist will be the best option for actual stats gains, to better balance with the rewards from the truck driving job for Vinnie.

Thanks guys. :slight_smile:


I do think there will be a lot more popularity for Ex-Cop if it you are indeed being set up as a sting officer. I think it certainly would appeal to a lot of people to be a second play through if they are more in favor of being a traditional gangster.
Oh, is it possible to kinda bring down the family, but like a vigilante as opposed to working for the government? (Less than legal ways of removing members of the family would be encouraged).


So no one really knows who he/she was ? That means this agent could actually be my MC, on another mission in the underworld, that’s totally awesome :smile:

Much like White Widow from Mission Impossible Fallout ? :wink:


No spoilers from that movie! I want to see it with my own eyes. Wait, why does the blur not work when quoting someone?

Edit: never mind, fixed it.


It’s more a case of taking over the Ginelli operations and making them (or more likely, what’s left of them) your own, thereby becoming Boss of Hell’s Kitchen. It’s by far the most difficult / challenging Game Ending possible, and will probably require several replays to really nail it down.

A far more likely / achievable ending is to become the right-hand (wo)man of the surviving (with your help) Boss of Hell’s Kitchen, which could be any one of several different leading characters – you get to choose which one you will actually support.

It’s probably a matter of historical record now, but even into the 60s books only ever referred to him by his alias. You’ve got me curious though… :smiley:

Agreed, I haven’t seen it yet either!


Okay, I am not Mafia expert at all. I am not even fan of the books I read like half of first and ended half sleep… I liked the two first films due the actors.

So I am wondering if as pc we could maintain an aptitude of I don’t care about blah blah I want money and i want fast and easy. With no problems with morality. Even ifI pretty much prefer 99% of no violence subtle methods.

@Vendetta what i truly trying to say is please, don’t write text about how much I care for the gangs and all that.

It is a problem i had with the bunny asshole that I was somewhat supposed to care for and I was only desire he dead already to go play the game.

The scene is great and good writing however as a game I don’t see it due i really don’t care about him or the helions and all that … And that totally break my immersion.

Show better than tell. and never Suppose what players believe. That is hard i know.


Hm… very interesting… I like being the power behind a throne. I wonder what the potential mob bosses are! And if any are lesser evils… I guess an MC of mine could justify that they are not as bad as other mobsters, so they might as well have the power in order to soften the brutality. Be the lesser evil.


you can be truly evil and still justify your actions by feigning to be psychologically unstable


Billy the Nose and the Hellions street gang are a little different to the usual “You meet this person / you fall head over heels / they break your heart, oh the anguish!” type of thing which we see now and then in these games – that’s telling, not showing by your definition, if I understand correctly? If so, I completely agree. :slight_smile:

The difference with Billy / the Hellions is that it’s all to do with the MC’s backstory. Orphaned when you were just seven, the gang became your surrogate family, and Billy was your best friend and closest companion for (and possible childhood sweetheart at some time during) the next nine years, until he was brutally and deliberately beaten to death. The story therefore makes certain assumptions about the MC’s likely feelings on this subject, based on the circumstances of “the past”, and I do feel it’s entirely fair to make those assumptions in this sort of situation – otherwise the MC in every Choice Game is just a mindless, fill-in-the-blanks automaton with no history before the start of the story, no reason for being, and no real sense of purpose.

All the same, I should point out that – assumed feelings about “the past” or not – it is you who decides whether or not to act on those feelings. You can in fact decide to simply put them behind you, forget about Billy and the Hellions, and just get on with your life in any way you see fit – that’s where the player’s real freedom of choice comes into it.

I should also add that there were some cases in the old version where I was guilty of making certain assumptions (usually with ROs) and “telling, not showing”… I’ve since addressed most of these – mostly by not making such assumptions until much later in the relationship, where by their actions to date the player has better indicated their feelings. If I’ve missed any, I’m sure they’ll be pointed out by yourself or other playtesters. :smiley:

Two are rivals within the Ginelli mob itself (which has always been the case) and two are… not (which is new for this version).


My problem with the old start is that io QA zs boom in your face with a supposed feeling I don’t have. That and when someone astarts saying how much i care I normally stop there. :wink:


I’ve been thinking about this some more since you raised the subject. It occurs to me that with this particular scene no longer being the actual start of the story (the Prologue is once again the City Morgue scene, as it was originally), it might not have the same effect on you, or may even come across quite differently.

Current Version

  • starts with the dream-memory flashback sequence
  • some other (unrelated) stuff happens
  • you meet with Nick Morello and learn Danny O’Hara made parole
  • you decide how best to avenge Billy (if at all)

New Version

  • new Prologue (which you can skip for replays) is the City Morgue / identifying Gina’s body scene
  • some other stuff happens
  • you meet with Nick Morello and learn Danny O’Hara made parole
  • that night (i.e. immediately after) you get drunk / have the dream-memory flashback
  • the following morning (i.e. immediately after) you decide how best to avenge Billy… or not

It’ll be interesting to see if this comes across any differently, since (as mentioned in a post much earlier in this thread) the dream-memory flashback itself now includes an extra choice in which you determine just how close / intimate your relationship with Billy (for both genders) actually was.


Just to let you know - Mara and I just finished this convo and we came to the conclusion that we should wait for the release of the new demo before pushing further on this …

Starting the prologue in the present I think is the right move and just from looking at the structure you posted I do think its cohesion and agency is better than you had in the old start.


I agree. I feel like starting in the present will let players have a better idea of what where the prologue will be going, and what characters they should pay attention to. Sometimes with those ones that start in the past, yo are never sure what characters you should care about, and which are just there to serve the prologue.


Exactly as @Eiwynn said. She is far better than me in saying stuff in a educated way. I always sounds like rude or something, when is not my intention.

As other people has said is better starting in present or even from perspective of a npc than started in past in middle of action. Because I really don’t know them and I am supposed to know and care and sometimes that comes like confusing.

I really want t read new entry lol


Patient, young grasshopper. Soon, you will see the fruits of labour courtesy of @Vendetta. (Ah crap, now I sound like a wise man.)