Wait, the Mosaic Virgin is breaking the game this time and Mara is merrily being oblivious? What has the CoG community come to here? This is truly a crisis dun dun dun…
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[quote=“Personaddict07, post:100, topic:19177, full:true”] …
That aside, would it be possible to explain what makes people from each political view think the way they do or believe what they do? Not through the forums but in the actual game? (Perhaps not Divided We Fall, but here in United We Stand) I understand that such things could be found out via Master Google but an explanation might make it more accessible to more people. 
[/quote]
Did you look at…
If so, this might be an area Alex can look to expand a bit more.
I mean who in real could say to a reporter I WANNA GET RID OF THE SUPREME LEADER OF MY FASCIST PARTY… YEAH AND I TELLING YOU TO THE FACE TO MADE HIM USE HIS PRIVATE ARMY TO KILLING ME…YOLO . All options that are bad is clear as hell that are bad. Or I am to used to role playing as a politician that is like a second nature for me. Lol
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That makes sense but I was actually referencing @AlexClifford1994’s plans for future updating … I just wanted to acknowledge your words in describing the non-paramilitary defensive forces I was expecting in non-communist interwar era European leftist parties.
We’re suppossed to be a niave little girl entering politics for the very first time… of course we want to be the Queen Bee and we want to gossip about it with all the girls… right?
Edit: you guys are making me spam Alex’s thread… sigh the system is warning me not to spam!
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Oh, yes, sorry for misunderstanding that, but, yes, compared to the right many of the “fighters” the left did mobilise tended to be used defensively, for the most part, whereas the fascist right had no such restraints.
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You could supposed to be a little naive mosaic virgin if you want role-playing that. However, Mara is a young, ambitious noble who was taught in etiquette and intrigue even before that walking. In fact, in my head canon she is in the party not only because want party be successful, because she really think it could be a leverage to Marry the little brother of the queen and ejem… 
Mara 
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I did actually. I did it the first time I did not understand where the game was supposed to go. The Guide screen boasts an encyclopedic/dictionary like format which is much appreciated, but not what I’m looking for. Knowing what The Popular Front is, when were they established and what not does not really help me in understanding their motives or their views.
Do correct me if I’m wrong though, I get the feeling that Divided We Fall is a wonderful game and I want to keep playing.
Well, not necessarily, maybe simply using these paramilitary tactics for slightly different ends…
@Personaddict07
First of all, thanks a lot for buying DWF! I sympathise though, the spanish civil war is a complex topic, which I suppose is why I had the big historical intro and the encyclopedia. But I can see how it could all be a bit bewildering for those not so well versed in politics and 20th century history. I’d be interested to hear your suggestions as to how it could be improved in United We Stand. Would like @Eiwynn suggests you like to see far more detail in the guide screen? As far as DWF goes, i’d obviously encourage you to keep playing, I think you’ll pick it up the more you read. Is there anything specific I can clear up?
Not at all, I’m enjoying this!
More detail on the guide screen would be appreciated. An overview on political agendas perhaps? And as I mentioned before, the motives and what motivates the believers to do what they do?
It doesn’t have to be factually accurate if that’s what you’re worried about. The PoV character, Morales, if I remember correctly, could muse about the country’s state and give his opinions without messing up real historical facts. After all, they’re just opinions.
On another note, (and this is more of a story-based nitpick) the historical encyclopedia may turn some people off if it’s the first thing they see since it reads a lot like a page from a History textbook. In any case, I suggest putting us in the shoes of the POV character first (and customize if able) and do the action scenes before explaining the country’s state.
This feedback may be too late for Divided We Fall though but I hope it can help you.
Interesting. To be honest, I don’t have any plans to update/change DWF at the moment but these are lessons that I can take into this new project. The reason i had the textbook like introduction was so that you wouldn’t just be thrown into the action without any context but I see your point about how it might turn people off. This is sort of why I don’t have a big historical intro at the start of this game but get straight into the story.
Well I presume from this you haven’t actually got that far in to the game because Morales is actually only the first of 4 PoV characters, 2 from each side in the civil war. These characters, their interactions and opinions will I hope illustrate over the course of the game the motivations for why the different factions do what they do.
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Oh that sounds really interesting!
You are right in assuming that I haven’t got far enough into the story yet. I… uh stopped for a bit because I didn’t understand what was happening. But I’ll keep playing as per your recommendation. 
IMO putting people in action without context is generally a very bad idea, but if done correctly, the action can serve as a hook for making the reader interested and be more attentive to the world building that will eventually follow. Doing it this way is risky and takes more time, but the rewards if done correctly are greater than a historical introduction.
The Portuguese fascism was also very racist. Salazar liked to pretend that he wasn’t, but one starts to see the mentality promoted by the state and the practices and one notices that the regime was racist to its core, not the kind of racism that goes like “lets kill them all”, but nonetheless a racist regime. Portugal was the last country to give freedom to its colonies, that is a good indicator of the fascist policy,
@AlexClifford1994 I will never play the fascist party, my country suffered too much in the hands of fascist conservatives. But I really enjoy that you give the player a choice between both sides of the political spectrum. I guess that the people in the Eastern Bloc wouldn’t play the communists either. Over here the communists were almost the only ones brave enough to give their lives in the fight against fascism, but over there they have done a very bad lists of things (millions of dead and all those Stalinist horrors).
Giving the player both choices is a good way to remain the most neutral possible (so that you can’t be accused of promoting one ideology over the other) and gain the biggest public possible for the game.
I just have one question if I may, its regarding the Solidarity party. What are the ideologies that compose the members of the party? I can only guess that there are a considerable plurality in the party, given that the parties of the left (especially in this time) had many ideologies in play.
My guess is:
- Democratic Communism/Socialism (the dominant ideology)
minor ideologies:
- Alternative Extreme Left (alternate forms of Marxism and Leninism, i.e. non-Stalinist ones)
- Anarchist-communism (given that the big majority of the Solidarity electorate is the working class it seems natural that there might be some anarcho-communists, that ideology was very big at the time in the organized labour, at least in the ibero-latin countries)
- Pro-Soviet Union Communists (given that it’s never stated that there is a pro-SSR party, I can only imagine that there are some Stalinist in the Solidarity party)
I’m too far off from your plan for the party?
Sorry for the wall of text. I’m really exited for this WIP. I enjoyed United we fall. This seems to be even more original. Good Luck. Congrats.
I didn’t buy your Spanish civil war cog. Because until now all I have seen written by not Natives, except maybe Orwell and some other British is a pure damn joke. Where republicans were saints and perfect people not divided at all and war between them. And Nacionals were a bunch of stupid people rapists and cruels who were stolen candy to babies. Hemingway was a terrible he wrote directly lies that even commies historic experts admit that nowadays. However due your good work in this I will give a try to your Spanish civil war game . I hope there would good and bad people in both sides . And cruelty in both sides because both were brave and cruels and both were Spaniards
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@Personaddict07
If you want a very simply explanation of the very complex situation in spain, the working class wanted an improvement in their lives, they supported the Popular Front and the Republic. The upper class wanted to keep things as they were (and had been for centuries) and supported the Nationalist/fascist rebels. The middle class was split between liberals who supported the democratic republic and conservatives who would prefer a dictatorship or monarchy.
One key example of this was the land issue. Spain had millions of landless peasants who lived in almost medieval conditions working the farm land of rich landowners. The Republic wanted land reform to grant these peasants land from the big estates, the landowners were obviously deeply opposed to this as it would hurt their wealth and power. The landowners refused to cooperate with any reform or redistribution and would do anything they could to stop it, the peasants would no longer accept the status quo and began to take land for themselves. In this situation, with neither willing to budge, violence was almost inevitable.
@ruhenri
The solidarity party line is that they support democracy but if they win power they’d get rid of the monarchy and create a socialist republic. They however use the tactics and rhetoric of many communist parties at that time. As you say there were many factions on the left and I’m sure there are revolutionaries more inclined to the revolutionary tactic within the party.
@poison_mara
Thank you very much! I understand how difficult it must be to read foreign writings on such an important and emotional event in your own country’s history. I hope DWF portrays how neither side were perfect and both sides believed in what they were fighting for but could also be terribly cruel.
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Again it wasn’t a agrarian lands fighting with a great good Republic helping poor. My family was a poor farming family in Galicia were land were divided into small pieces and not were any landlords. Republic taxes over land almost condemned famine my grandmother land my grandmother father has to emigrate Argentina in 1935 to pay taxes and support family . My grandma like older of four couldn’t go to school to helping her mother not only cultivated our small terrain to working help another families for a few coins. So think wasn’t republic good national s bad. Republic was divided and CNT and radicals were causing problems in rural areas. Nacionals too. It was a bad moment in our story.
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Oh absolutely, the small farmers of the north were no fans of the Republic. I was just trying to give a simple example but as you rightly say, it was a very complex and nuanced situation
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Well the right wing weren’t good either trying maintain old caciques rights and medieval fees and trying to negate public rural schools to maintain farmers ignorant. Basically everyone was shitting on poor people everywhere. Between fascists anarchist communist and nacionalism bias…It is wonderful we still exist as country.
Moravia seems in better shape reallt
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I guess that’s a matter of perspective since I it just seemed to me like they were far worse off than the Netherlands in the 1930’s.
Nothing was worse political speaking compared with Spain when nobody was helping anybody and all options were radical and insufficient to helping people. So everyone started to being corrupt and firing the other side supporters taping nuns or and union daughters … destroying fabrics … The only great back then was Spanish culture the rest was pure radical shit for every side.
Well there is no doubt that both Italian and Spanish fascists were heavily nationalist. It might be more accurate for me to say any racism that was a part of their agenda was relatively understated compared to the Nazis. After all treating some groups of people poorly and discriminating against them rather pales when compared to rounding them up and systematically executing them.