United We Stand - Political WIP

I appreciate that you are willing to put the focus back on Alex’s project. Thank you.

None of those would work. The New Order vs Solidarity works because they are the different sides of the same coin.
They both have members of all class society, they both are composed of people who saw their country suffer under the German invasion and blames the status quo for what happened and both parties want to change Moravia for what they consider to be the best course of action, even if they would use of drastic actions like violence.
No other party would be able to do this, do in my opinion the author should either keep the New Order or he should scrap the “right wing” side of the history and focus only on the Solidarity.

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Every party in the world can do this - circumstances mold the party, not the other way around. Both of the parties I suggested had (historically) members of all the classes, every person alive during the occupation saw their country suffer and both parties I suggest are anti-status-quo. All parties can be led to violence - even the American Democratic party had riots in 1968 that were violent and related to the day’s politics.

If he focuses solely on on Solidarity the game will be viewed as a propaganda or agenda-setting game by the gamers out there. That is why he needs a foil. Divided We Fall works so well because it doesn’t take one side only. This project will succeed if the same approach is taken; I’m not sure it will if it is seen as an agenda-pushing piece.

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It wouldn’t work for the royalist or the pro-nobility because the previous king and the nobility welcomed the German invasion to Moravia. So how someone who suffered under the Germans agree to give more power to the monarchy out to the nobility?
And I’m not saying the others parties can’t be violent, I’m saying none can represent better the conflict between New Order and Solidarity.

On the contrary - it can work very well. The animosity is towards that particular monarch. There are tweaks that will be needed but I see it working very well. Just as the Greeks decided to give power back to the monarchy instead of the communists after World War 2 …

The problem with your analyst is that you don’t allow yourself to look at anything that supports an alternative to New Order in those circumstances and that time. That means you are forced to conclude New Order or nothing.

We disagree totally about representing the conflict. Its that simple.

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I’m more concerned that if you’re pitting the left-wing as the only (playable) radicals instead you are presenting the Monarchist Conservatives as the only reasonable and patriotic option here, giving the country some “tough love” and by doing that you’ll be playing right into the hands of people like our current PM mr. Rutte and his youth wing.
While I know you consider them to be less bad than Le Pen, WIlders and Trump they are by no means the only reasonable alternative to chaos and anarchy, which would be the narrative a lot of our centre-right media would take away from your altered game instead, where they to review it and spend some time covering it.

As a left-wing inclined player of this thing, that would irk me too.

This is certainly true and you need to write what you feel comfortable writing, again I’m just voicing my concerns here that by pitting Solidarity against the Conservatives you’re making it seem like a game about the radical left versus the “reasonable” center (ha) right.

One possible solution is to replace Solidarity with a social fascists Social Democrat path that either substitutes for or plays in addition to the current Solidarity path as that would change the theme to put less focus on the “reasonable” right-wing giving the country some desperately needed “tough-love and austerity” and more to a center must hold in the face of extremism type of narrative that is not outspokenly left or right-wing biased and would thus be more palatable to me and people like me.

Either way it would mean a lot of work for you and it is ultimately your decision.
I would still play Solidarity of course, provided the option is left in, but I’m just going to call it how I see your proposed new dichotomy possibly go down in the media if they suddenly cared enough to cover it.

Ah, @Eiwynn you sly temptress, up to your old tricks again eh? Yes, I see why you’d champion such a royalist party, with your mc as the Queen, of course. :wink:

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But there is no way to @AlexClifford1994 to remove the New Order without rewriting a lot of Moravia history. There is a motive to why he said he would change the New Order path to the National Bloc.
The New Order rise is very well created.

There is no way to make the same to a royalist or pro-nobility party, because the negative sentiment for those two groups after the WWI was that allowed the quick growth of New Order. For those parties to work, he would need to rework the entire pos-WWI history of Moravia.[quote=“idonotlikeusernames, post:613, topic:19177”]
I’m just voicing my concerns here that by pitting Solidarity against the Conservatives you’re making it seem like a game about the radical right versus the “reasonable” center (ha) right.
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@AlexClifford1994 I will agree with this. In my view this story is about the rise of the extremists parties after the economic crisis fueled by the negative sentiments against the status-quo generated by the WWI.
If you do the National Bloc, it wouldn’t be the same story. It would change the MC motivation to enter politics, it would need a explanation to why the conservative party allowed a young upstarter to enter the ejection, etc. If the story is so different, it would be better to make another game for the right path.

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I get your points (don’t truly agree with them, but your eloquent, which is more than most of the Internet, si major kudos), but you do have to remember, what happened in these last 14 years?
The Great Recession which wasn’t just an economic failure of the USA, it ended affecting the entirety of the world’s economy, leading to Spain, Italy, and Greece’s mayor economic problems (in addition to the massive debts) to the point where actual, literal fascists and communists have had fights in the streets, and the surge in popularity of the Golden Dawn Party… so yeah.

Although, to the whole Solidarity v other right wing party debate, I’m gonna have to go back to my previous position. It’s important for historical accuracy, unless the game were totally reworked, and honestly, I hope it stays the way it is (although the disgusting elements of the nationalist movement should be deeply shown even more like a shark bite on one’s face (which I think would be impossible to survive, but nonetheless).

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And the “greatest president” of our history said the Great Recession was a tsunami for the USA and a little tide for my country, that is how stupid he was.

Well, the USA did have a time where completely letting the Titanic of our banking industry crash was considered a good idea (or at least one reasonable enough not to be laughed out of the room) to “rid the market of inneficiencies”. So, he’s correct, plus, it hit the USA first (tsunami), and then it hit the rest of the world (waves).

So he wasn’t 100 wrong.

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He might be right about it being a tsunami for the USA, but he was wrong when he said it was a very small wave for Brazil. So he was an idiot who couldn’t see the effect of the crisis in his own country.

To clarify, the Golden Dawn Party is so bad, this is their non tab Wikipedia page.

Scholars and media have described it as neo-Nazi[15][16][17] and fascist,[18][19][20] though the group rejects these labels.[21] Members have expressed admiration of the former Greek dictator Ioannis Metaxas of the 4th of August Regime (1936–1941).[22] They have also made use of alleged Nazi symbolism, and have praised figures of Nazi Germany in the past.[23][24][25] According to academic sources, the group is racist and xenophobic,[26][27] while the party’s leader has openly identified it as nationalist and racist.[28]Many groups and political parties advocate for the Greek government to dissolve Golden Dawn.

Rafael Trigo: (Meaning they’re so bad that one of the most fractured countries can agree, those guys are crazy.)

Also, speaking of how bad they are:

Following an investigation into the murder of anti-fascist rapper Pavlos Fyssas in September 2013 by an alleged supporter of the party, Michaloliakos, and several other Golden Dawn MPs and members, were arrested and held in pre-trial detention on suspicion of forming a criminal organization.[29] The trial began on 20 April 2015.[30] the trial is ongoing as of 2017.

Rafael Trigo: I don’t think any comments are necessary here. :disappointed:

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Depends on when he have the statement, because if he said it a few days later, than understandble beciase Eurpoe hadn’t begone to utterly crash and being just yet, and the World was honestly hopeful that it was like the bursting of the .Com bubble, or the post-Reagan recession, seeing as how no one likes to be the one to say “Well… ladies and gentlemen… we’re screwed.”, and as a general rule, they like to think crashes if the economic type are isolated (even though they’re quite clearly not, especially when it originates in the World’s sole Ultrapower), especially since politicians tend to deny that the egg’s on their fave until the World hands them a mirror to look in, plus, in terms of economic crashes, optimism does help to stabilize it, bufase it gives confidence to shareholders. Like when Obama had to say “We won’t really punish Britain for exiting the EU.” after Brexit to stop the massive economic hemmorahe they were having due to Britain’s economic value (due to its reduction in safety and security to investors) plummeted yugely.

If he said it a few weeks, or a month after, then he’s just denying reality, and can safely be called either a liar, a complete moron, or just highly out of touch and ignorant.

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I recognize that it is your right as the author to write and rewrite this story if that is what you want. However, my advise as someone who has been a fan since you first announced it, is to retain the New Order path. New Order provides a more effective parallel and counter balance to Solidarity in a way that all but the most radical of elements of National Bloc ever could. Further National Bloc in its present form serves as an effective challenge for either New Order or Solidarity to overcome.

Because, in the way I have interpreted it, National Bloc serves as symbol of the established order. By having National Bloc replaced New Order as the other playable party you risk losing this potent symbol. Instead of playing as the growing, radical under dogs versus the old, establish order that is National Bloc. You would most likely have a story of the battle between the radical left against the moderate right. To alter this you would either completely change the present dichotomy of the story or you would need to completely recreate what National Bloc represents as a party.

If you were to attempt this rewrite, you potentially risk alienating many of the fans that have supported this story up to this point. Not necessarily because of a deep seeded love of New Order but out of potentially changing the character of and general atmosphere that you have so far created, in the story.

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Again exactly my concern and that would end up presenting said “moderate” right as the reasonable side, wanting to guide the country through troubled times with some “tough love and austerity” versus the radical left-wing who use bullets, instead of actual, political arguments.
Mind you the game could be changed to a “the center must hold” narrative where the options are to play as either the moderate left or the “moderate” right versus the extremists on both sides, but that would essentially be a whole different game.

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That is indeed something to worry about.

This seems like the best option.[quote=“idonotlikeusernames, post:613, topic:19177”]
instead you are presenting the Monarchist Conservatives as the only reasonable and patriotic option here, giving the country some “tough love”
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But this is also a concern.

@AlexClifford1994, in the end, it is your choice. Even despite the fact that I absolutely and instintively despise fascism due to my own country’s story, I have been able to play New Order with some distance that makes the situation enjoyable. But I will buy the game because of Solidarity’s path (or any other non-fascist path). I can very well live without New Order, even if it would destroy the dichotomy that you are trying to represent (and with such distinction).

I don’t know, I will support whatever decision you make. New Order makes it interesting, and that level of interest could only be reached if you made not only a National Bloc path, but also one other “center” path. That, or creating a whole new extreme-right wing party, such as the one @Eiwynn mentioned, which wouldn’t risk attracting the alt-right.

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Seeing that historically, Communism has been far worse for humans than fascism (both are horrible), I’ll gladly pick new order over solidarity any day.

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Your profile picture is Stalin. Are you serious or are you just trying to troll because admins made it clear it was enough and Alex need some actual opinions.

@AlexClifford1994 I really liked the idea of an imperialists vs (chosen ideology here I guess. Anarcho-syndicalism/anarchists/equalitarian in general could be a good idea to try of you want to stay away from radicals in general)

It might not give the game the exact same vibes but the truth is that its still taking place in a country you created. Being between germany and italy while being close to other kingdoms could explain why the monarchist movement is still going strong and the fascists territorial ambitions make the extreme right unwelcomed while on the left side a leftist anti-soviet group could give the same effect. Both sides can exist with and without democracy without being absolute evils, both have anti-fascist and anti radical communist ideals and both easily touch all social classes. Of course you dont have to follow that but its just an idea. Heck both side could maybe even branch either into social democracy and conservative democracy or take a more authoritarian stance by overthrowing the parliment and establishing a syndicalist commune or dissolve the parliment and give back all power to the crown.

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really he was quite handsome he was young all those love poems make sense. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes::sweat_smile: in retrospect it’s probably better if he poetically died with his first wife.

communism does have the Cambodian genocide and the Great Leap Forward.

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And the right wing have the native genocides, the jewish genocide, the armenian genocide, countless other genocides lost to history, hundreds of years of unchecked imperialism, slavery, gross abuse of those who can defend themselves the least, normalised corruption, encouraged gender inequality and countless other things since the day the first king was born for no reasons other than that they felt threatenend by human rights and progress or in many cases just because they felt like it. Nobody here is going to change their opinion so focus on the game please.

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