The Wayhaven Chronicles General Discussion (SPOILER FREE FOR BOOK THREE!)

Funny thing is, All of that has happened in some combination or another of Books 2 and 3. I would argue, while I agree that Book 1 was probably my favorite so far, I would say Book 2 certainly held up to its predecessor. To put more context into it.

That happened in Book 3, arguably just as bad as in Book 1.

That happened in Book 2, during the Trapper fight at the end.

That happened in Book 2 with Falk where he showed up to threaten us at our apartment and at the warehouse.

However, none of these things in subsequent books felt like they were that threatening. Now, part of that is because the trappers just aren’t threatening themselves, and both the second and the third books had a focus on them (not a decision I would’ve personally made, tbh). Another reason is that, for Book 1, we saw the consequences if we failed. We experienced a kid dying, had to investigate it, had to deliver the death notice to the mother. Personally, I’m tired of seeing the ‘redeemable’ bad guy. If we’re gonna see that again, I want the bad guy to have done some really bad stuff so I actually have to think “Do you actually deserve it?”

Because, what did Falk do? Make a bunch of people sick? They got better, in the end. No one died. No lasting harm, that we’re aware of, was done. Did Sin do some bad stuff? Yeah, and it might’ve led to people’s deaths, but he literally didn’t have a choice. They were crimes done under threat of his own life. We never get to see the consequences of these actions, either. There’s no follow-up with Falk about how some of the people that were sick might now have prolonged negative health effects. There were no talks with Sin’s victim’s families or no body trail after failing to save the hostages at the auction, bringing the assumption they were killed because they were loose ends. (At least, I don’t think that happened. I skimmed through the code and didn’t see anything, please correct me if I’m wrong).

Seeing the consequences during/before the investigation in Book 1 was what made Murphy so intimidating. You knew the stakes. If you don’t catch him, more people are going to die. There is no reasoning. There is no negotiation. They will die. Full stop.

And I get it, the other two books aren’t that dark because the author doesn’t want to write a dark, gritty story. It just begs the question… why was the first book arguably a dark, gritty story then? Not nearly as dark and gritty as others, but I wouldn’t call it light-hearted in the slightest, either. It’s just a bit of a weird situation where, if you were a fan of the first book, you just have to accept that that’s not really the direction the rest of the series is going to be taken in, from the looks of things.


Oh. Oh gods. Sera’s “spruce up” of B1 is going to be focused on making it lighter-toned, isn’t it? :man_facepalming:


That’s pretty much my main point. All of those things happened in other books, but the atmosphere wasn’t threatening, and nothing seemed to have any real consequences that would matter to the readers. For example, if Sanja is deceased, it doesn’t really make too much of a difference; you can still have peace and harmony with the maa-alused. What happened in Book One still has a lasting impact, and the events that took place and the effect they had on the MC are still brought up to some extent. I more than likely didn’t word what I meant in the best way beforehand.

Right, although the Trappers have the potential to become threatening, as seen in Book 2 with Unit B, they’re not utilized in a threatening manner most of the time.

Falk was very anti-climatic in general. The only way for Falk’s inclusion to be worth it is if you deliberately fail at getting the maa-alused to sign the treaty, don’t make peace with them, and Sanja dies. There can be lasting harm as far as scarring goes if they don’t decide to cure the townspeople, I believe, but I’m not sure if that only applies to Douglas and Bobby.

We only have the option to speak with Addie’s parents with N.

Exactly, and the other books shifted the tone enough to notice that it’s not the same. We’ll definitely have to endure it if we want to continue to see where this game goes. I think another problem that was in Book One but has become a bit more frequent in Book 3 specifically is reading from the POV of the antagonist. We don’t need to know their feelings, motivations, plans, etc.

It should naturally come out in the story instead of us already knowing as we play. With Murphy, we mostly found out what he wanted and was going to attempt to accomplish by having Unit B assigned a mission to protect the MC and Verda telling us that there were blood transfusions occurring. The only information we acquired from the antagonist was the power source that our blood provided, coming from Murphy’s POV. It shouldn’t be the readers being hand-fed everything by the antagonist, especially when the MC is a detective or agent; have us figure it out by playing the game.

With that being said, from Sera’s Tumblr, it seems as if Book 2’s consequences are supposed to circle back around later. Apparently, Sanja being alive or dead will affect later books, and if we don’t sign the treaty, that will come up later on. Sanja was also controlling the carnival workers, so if she is used (and if she’s alive) in other books, maybe her abilities will benefit the MC in some way.


I’m gonna disagree with you here. The Trappers aren’t threatening to UB at all, and the only reason they are in the sewer fight is because that scene is outright trash.

The Bravos can move faster than the eye can see; F is literally faster than a speeding bullet. A can lift and toss aside a tree that you need to CLIMB THE WIDTH OF ITS TRUNK. Halfwits with cattleprods aren’t a challenge, they’re a smear on the wall even if you’re a moron that throws away the element of surprise for absolutely no gain.

The only reason that fight is even a fight and not a slaughter is because Sera wanted DRAMA!, but the drama is entirely made up, contradicts literally everything that has been established in-universe, and the scene is utter and complete trash.

Like, compare it with the fight scene in B3, where you’re on the receiving end of an ambush during daylight hours (when vampires are less powerful), and the Bravos still own trappers left and right, to the point that F takes the time to give you a thumbs up while headlocking a trapper and kneeing them in the face.

Either the vampires of Unit Bozo are super-duper powerful (like the game goes outs of the way to tell you during the “and these are their power levels” scene) OR they get their asses handed to them by halfwits with cattleprods; you can’t have it both ways.


Probably because that was written back when Sera was still active on the forums and actually making changes based on the feedback she received.

Don’t put this out into the universe, I’m begging you :sob:.

There’s a lot of things like this about the series that don’t really add up when you look at them too close. For example, why the hell does most of the “investigating” take place in the day time when the vamps aren’t even at full strength then? Why can’t the agency intervene when the MC is being forced to donate blood in B3? Why is MC even being forced to donate blood, I don’t think you can mandate that someone do that???

Really hoping that the antagonist for B4 is actually a threat (and who knows, maybe even evil) but given how the series has been going so far and the fact that they’re apparently an RO for a book, I’m not holding my breath.


This is true, but it is also ridiculously comfortable to have people telling you that everything you do is perfect, screeching in excitement when you said you wrote something cool (in those exact words, with absolutely no hint as to what it is), and attacking people on your behalf if they happen to say you aren’t perfect.

Well, I think it must be comfortable–I’ve never had that!

You aren’t alone. Each installment is worse than the last. B2 was enjoyable, but not as much as B1. B3 is just a hot mess where the plot is concerned. And the prose is just… ridiculously over the top, causing the MC to be something completely different than a lot of us have built using the stats she provided.

The N fans are gonna be N fans, no matter what is written. My take on it is that it was the author’s choice. She made posts on tumblr implying N was better at sex and hornier than M once N was involved. And that N is also better because the sex means something. This is just one more chit on the pile of evidence for me that she hates M, really, since it’s one more thing to take away from them and give to a different character.

I suspect the MC will get a dose of that, no matter which LI they’ve chosen, but I think M’s will be the worst, with them lashing out at the MC out of frustration. F and N would admit it’s difficult, as would A (all while still stringing the MC along with the longing crap up until the end), but M? I can see M getting angry if the MC dares ask why they’re avoiding them and falling back on the old, “I told you it was just meaningless fun!”, leaving the MC feeling like everything that happened during the last couple of months (basically b3) was nothing. And that means a moping MC, until they’re forced to go beg for crumbs from M again at the end to set up the misery in b5.

I have a feeling that’s going to be the story for M for the rest of the series. Now that she knows everyone loved b3!M, she’ll make sure that doesn’t happen again.

I do as well, based on M’s behavior in b3 and what she said about M realizing it, but if the author is saying, “Nope, M doesn’t love the MC but is almost there!” then you’re stuck with what the author gives you, which is a dumber than a box of rocks M, returning to the “derrrrp!” crap. Her obviously displeased surprise at people loving M’s route in b3 means it wasn’t intentional and, like I said above, she’ll probably go out of her way to make sure we don’t get it again.

In b1, Dezh was drawn to him (it was love at first sight for her, but she had no clue that’s what it was), but she figured it’d be a one time fuckathon and nothing more. I mean, Mason made no bones about the fact that he couldn’t stand her and just wanted to fuck her, so she knew what she was getting into and had resolved herself to that fun and let it go.

In b2, when he took over training her and made a comment about the night before, she wasn’t really sure wtf was happening. Was he flirting again? Did he actually want her again? She pushed him against the wall because she wasn’t about to pass up an opportunity to “win” their little battle, but she didn’t move to kiss him because she wasn’t sure if he was screwing with her or not. Once she realized he meant it, she started bold flirting like crazy, and then blew him against the tree after the meeting with Falk.

She stayed that way (bold flirting and being playful, mixed in with being dead serious) up until the bakery scene in b3. Then bold flirting Dezh left the building, for the most part. She’ll still have sex with him any time he wants it, because she figures the first time she says no, it’s done for good. And she’ll still flirt here or there, but it’s when she forgets herself. That apology from him was forced, and she knows he meant what he said about it being nothing but seeing him naked, so she’s on borrowed time, in her eyes–either he’ll get bored and move on or she’ll catch him screwing someone else, at which point she will be done, because she accepts the fact that he’s banging other people, but she can’t deal with seeing it. Then there’s the fact that she’s in love with him and it’s eating her alive not to let it out, so she figures one day she just may blurt it out and he’ll run away.

Basically, for her, it’s a foregone conclusion right now. Even after all the stuff that happened with him in b3 (from the ‘when you’re 70’ comment to the “Can I have tonight?”), she figures it’s just a matter of time. She wrote off a lot of the stuff that happened in b3 as him being worried about the Trappers getting her, and of course he’d worry since she’s part of the team.

So yeah, it has evolved since b1 from her being eager to get her one night of passion with him to realizing she’s in love with him but he’ll never love her back.

I think this is a crucial thing Mishka doesn’t understand–while you could have F or N screwing up and have the MC be the one making the effort to patch things up (even if it shouldn’t always be the MC doing that), it doesn’t work for A or M. Forcing the MC to chase them down and beg for crumbs is just… gross. Yet that seems to be part of the “trope” with them, that the MC always has to make the effort and chase them down and beg for whatever, even if A or M are the ones who treat the MC like crap.


You know, I never thought about this, but you’re right. Tina is a good friend to the MC, but the MC just lets her do all the work.

All I know about Twilight is from the first movie. I didn’t watch the rest of them and never read the books. So it didn’t drag things out for this long?

Like you, I have to wonder how much of a soulmate the MC is to the LI on every path but F’s. N is hiding things from the MC and is overly controlling. A completely shuts the MC out and refuses to admit how they feel. And M… is a fucking idiot who can’t identify their own feelings, plus they fight it at every turn–Mishka can say whatever she wants about M “accepting” their feelings, but what we see is the exact opposite, considering M’s response when F says anything about the MC and how M responded when Haley suggested the MC and M were “together”. If M was accepting, those things would make M think, not piss them off and make them lash out at the MC to prove otherwise.

If she intends for the LI drinking from the MC to make matters worse instead of better, then I don’t see how the LI will ever learn to be around the MC at all. It’s too much of a temptation for them to be around the MC in b4, and only getting worse. So either drinking the blood has to help that temptation and calm it down or the MC and LI will never get to be together due to the MC’s blood.

And hell, maybe that’s why b5 will be so miserable. Something happens at the beginning of b5 or end of b4 to make the above clear–that there’s no way the LI and MC can be around each other, much less be together, because the MC’s blood is too much for them. So the MC gets removed from the team for their own safety and forced away from the LI for most of b5, only for the LI to get worse and worse because their connection to the MC drives them into the darkness or some such crap. Then b6 and b7 can be trying to figure out how the hell for the MC and LI to function on the same team, allowing her to drag the romances out for a full seven games.

Yeah, even Dezh would’ve been ready to go get Rebecca if the Trappers had taken her. Abandonment issues or not, she wouldn’t deal well with having the only family she has left taken away from her. My other three would feel the same, though one of them has no issue with her.

Yes! That is an excellent point. For a MC affected by R’s behavior and treatment in the past, N and F would be frightening prospects, since they’re making promises the MC can’t really trust, especially from N, who is obviously hiding things just like Rebecca has done the MC’s entire life.

Then you have A, who is basically a repeat of Agent Mum–constant rejection, cold demeanor with enough warmth mixed in to leave the MC confused, and random bursts of intensity that increases that confusion.

Finally, there’s M. MCs affected by R’s neglect and coldness would, in the beginning, find M to be the safest one of the bunch. Once M decides they want to screw the MC, not only to they make that clear in what they say and their constant voicing of wanting the MC, but they also say up front what they are offering. For a MC who grew up with a mother who was cold and neglectful and–given the whiny flashback about the birthday party–constantly made promises she didn’t keep, it would be refreshing to have someone be so blunt about what they were willing to give the MC.

So there is no uncertainty at first, because M lays down the law–it means nothing, there will never be a future with them, and it’s only for fun. There are no mixed signals at first from M. They were either full-on trying to get between the MC’s legs or they really had no use for them. As you said, there is no chance for commitment, ergo no chance to be abandoned or neglected.

M is offering to scratch an itch for both of you, nothing more. It’s only when M starts giving mixed signals that there are problems, because then M is mirroring the same conflicting behavior that Rebecca did. Instead of saying they care while behaving as though they don’t, M is behaving as though they care while telling the MC they don’t. So you may end up with a MC who can’t trust Rebecca’s claim that she cares because of other lies and her conflicting behavior, but trusts M’s declaration that they don’t care despite the conflicting behavior because M is nothing if not honest.

Triss, Dezh, & Bobby

Yep, that’s what I’m talking about. Triss let it go because it was easier to that than to admit it was forced on her. If he ever tried it again, she would deck him. As for jail, Bobby should be in jail for planting a bug in a police station. But as I’ve said before, logic isn’t allowed in Wayhaven.

She does agree with F on a lot of things (like splitting the team in b3, and she went along with his plan without hesitation). The way he needles Mason really pisses her off, though, and she doesn’t appreciate him being a dick to Adam either, since she’s closer to Adam than Nate or Felix.

Trappers, B3, and other miscellany

But they should be, shouldn’t they? Here’s this group that is capable of capturing a buttload of supernaturals, including an annunaki, and forcing them to their will. They can steal the powers of supernaturals and, apparently, inject them into humans to give them those powers. They sell supernatural powers to other supernaturals. For them to be able to do all of this, they have to have the means to best supernaturals, which means they have something other than their cute little sparky glow sticks. Hell, the annunaki alone could go out and capture most supernaturals.

So yeah, the Trappers should be threatening. Perhaps not all groups of them, but definitely the group we met in b3. Instead, however, they are a damned joke. And part of that is because the plot of capturing the MC was completely dropped in lieu of kidnapping random supernaturals for the “angst” factor. For me, at least, that “angst” factor never hit home because the “villain” made no sense in their approach to snatch the MC and immediately resorted to trying to instead make the MC sad by grabbing random nobodies. These fuckers definitely didn’t read Sun Tzu…

The fact is the Trappers could’ve gotten to the MC at the station or their apartment. Even if the MC is a badass, you send an army of humans after them when they’re alone and they’re toast (like after the bakery scenes, if you want added drama). Furthermore, Sin could’ve probably wiped the floor with the MC, despite the “shields” not working on them.

Probably that, making the MC more UwU tween so it matches the crap in b2 and b3, and to change the writing style so it’s more ridiculously over the top. B1 was the least over the top writing of all three, so much so that it almost doesn’t fit. I wish she would instead, take some of that out of the other two.

This, btw, is one of the most freaking hilarious scenes in the series thus far if your MC isn’t much of a people person. My husband’s F-mancer went with Nat for this and insulted their house and made some other inappropriate comment and Nat was about to have an aneurysm. I laughed my ass off.

But then the MC would have to be competent, and that’s not allowed. They have to spend all their time looking longingly at their LI.

And this is a problem. The sewer fight is utter garbage, but it’s not just because of the way the MC and UB handled it. It’s also because the Trappers are written so freaking bad in the scene. They are stupid, ineffective, and have crappy weapons. There’s no way they could capture powerful supes with their cattle prods, but Mishka wouldn’t give them anything better, because then they’d be a real threat to the vampires and MC, instead of setting up the “choice”. :roll_eyes:

Any time she wants drama (which is very often), something similar happens.


Because she wanted a bunch of slapstick comedy scenes where the MC could try to get out of it? Almost every time you see such contrived bullshit in this series, the answer is that it creates the circumstances for a scene or scenes she wants to include (kid dropping their ice cream, nurses that need their licenses revoked, crabby librarians, etc).

Probably best that you aren’t holding your breath for this one. Unless you like passing out from oxygen deprivation.


Gotta say havent visited this specific for a bit and am really confused as to whats happened since ive been here last??? Anyways just wanted to say that i am really tempted to try to make a time machine for this game

That’s a fair point, but they can certainly be utilized to become threatening. It astounds me that they don’t have DMB on hand 24/7, especially considering they know they will constantly have to fight vampires. Instead of seeking unnecessary drama, Sera could have easily had them acquire DMB, another offensive substance, or have a supernatural being as a backup for the trappers to weaken or hold off Unit B. I believe the Trappers have the potential if written correctly; they just aren’t.

I agree with this; if they were allowed to be actual vampires, everyone in that place would’ve died.


Honestly I would really rather the trappers not become the main scary threat. Books 2 and 3 have already sold them as complete morons who somehow manage to beat super strong agents through the power of…. Writing? What would be a more interesting threat would be a different agency kinda like the scp agency making itself known and targeting the current shitty Agency with the Mc having to either broker some sort of agreement join one to fight the other or just say fuck it I’m done. Then again that’s much. More entertaining than forced tension plots that feel more out of place then pineapple on pizza.


I’ve been thinking about the mc becoming an agent at the end of b3 (which I wasn’t particularly happy about, but alas), and for some mcs who are super enthusiastic about the supernatural it’s obviously a good job opportunity, but for those who are scared or just don’t trust the agency it’s just… so weird?! Why have stats that track how the mc feels about the supernaturals and the agency if they won’t matter in the end?!

I wasn’t aware but it make sense, though I still enjoy b2 quite a lot. I really appreciate authors that listen to their fans, ofc you don’t have to change your story because people want you to, but constructive criticism is always helpful, at least to reconsider some of the choices you’ve made. But at this point twc is so popular and the majority of players/readers still rave about it despite all the issues that we point out, so why change something that sells like hot cakes?

I think JBento said up thread that UB are more Fae than vampire and I agree. They never have any vampiric urge or impulse, no desire to suck blood beside their caprisuns provided by the agency (that single scene at the sun ne of b3 doesn’t count). Even during the sewer’s scene you have to tell them to use their hypersenses (?) to locate the trappers, I mean you would think something like that is second nature for them without you having to remind them, but I digress. When/if they succumb to their urges it’s going to give the readers whiplash. But in all honesty, when the ro can no longer resist the detective’s blood, they will probably just go away for some time to create some angst, but when it comes to actually drinking their blood, it will be a non issue whether you agree to give them some or not.

My canon is no kiss until I see how A will act in b4, my poor mc can’t take it any more.

This, M is the only one actively going against the agency and siding with the mc, consequences be damned. A would never, N would try to find an excuse and F would just be fine with whatever. M is fiercely loyal to a romanced mc and they don’t give a sh*t about anyone’s order and I love them for that.