The Wayhaven Chronicles General Discussion (SPOILER FREE FOR BOOK THREE!)

Hosted Games
7093

I wanted to go through his phone so bad just to know everything he potentially suspects and listen to more recordings.

  • I would like for my MC to be able to murder the people that constantly seem to go after them.

  • It would be interesting if our blood evolved and if our blood were taken by force it would become poisonous. If it would become a defense mechanism in anyway would be beneficial.

  • As for the Agency, it’s not an intelligent decision to keep people alive for too long whom you’re torturing. It would be interesting if somehow their system malfunctioned and all of those supernatural beings were released and their was a blood bath.

Doubtful that’ll any of that will happen, but gore and murder in games with supernatural aspects is amazing.

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7094

From what I understand, this wasn’t a decision by the agency, but a demand by the supernaturals to cooperate and go along with the accords.

I agree that it’s torture, and I can still see it blowing up in their face, but yeah, not their choice.

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7095

omg I would love it if my MC got to go freakin berserk, just a total breakdown that unleashes itself in lethal rage, definitely the kind of angry where you just see red. I just think it’d be incredibly interesting for not only her (my MC is female), but for UB as a whole, even if the reason was because MC is like… unknowingly possessed kinda thing. Tap into the dark side, MC; embrace it-

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7096

Ooh, it being Murphy would be cool. But I’d rather the MC get revenge on whoever did that to M. My M-mancer would destroy anyone who hurt M.

I like your idea about F, too. It’d be cool to see F shine.

Link please? I’d love to read it. I have one for Wayhaven, too. Well, more than one, actually A 25-chapter monstrosity with part 2 in the works that I’m trying to figure out how to keep under 30 chapters. And the sad part is that it started out as a three-chapter smut fic… then I learned my MC’s backstory and it spawned an AU that went off the rails.

You know, you summing it up this way makes sense. That is not how large organizations usually work but it appears the Agency pretty much leaves supernaturals alone as long as they don’t cause problems and provide for the ones who want it–so supernaturals get as much freedom as they want as long as they follow the rules (which don’t appear too strenuous, from what I can tell). Don’t get me started about the torture boxes, though… they piss off me and three of my MCs.

Same. And it was a bit… odd… that the MC flipped through the recording Bobby made in front of UB without stopping on the part where Bobby was kissing or trying to kiss them. It would’ve been a hilarious moment to have them hitting play around there then hurriedly fast forwarding to get past it.

I’m happy about that. I really like Elidor. Even my most foul-temepred MC likes him, too. So it never even occurred to me that he could be a mole.

I’ve thought the same thing. And that’s a good point about it possibly being more than one mole–I could totally see a group infiltrating it to destroy it from within. It’s the best way to achieve a goal like that.

Yeah, I think you’re probably right. Before Murphy did what he did, then the mutation probably wouldn’t have interfered with getting the same blood type. But after Murphy altered the MC’s blood that way? I’m thinking a transfusion wouldn’t work unless the blood belonged to the MC, which could cause huge problems if the MC needs blood.

It’s also possible that, if the MC did donate blood in book 3 that it wouldn’t be compatible with any human. I mean, Murphy killed others with his blood-changing plan, and they all had the mutation. There’s no telling what the MC’s blood would do when injected into a “normie.”

I honestly don’t understand that, no matter what N’s backstory is. I mean, out of the four of them, N is the one least likely to actually hurt the MC emotionally or physically (unless he loses his shit, anyway), but she comes right out and says not to hurt the MC. It seems completely out of place, especially given her confusing reaction to M.

With M, Rebecca tells them not to be sorry about eyeing the MC and that the MC certainly won’t be. Um. Say what? Rebecca surely knows M’s colorful history, and that they just have meaningless sex and move on to the next person. And Rebecca is okay with the MC being used that way? Or is she convinced it’s more? If so, how because this is M–and in book 2, it’s blatantly nothing but sex (or attempts to get sex) for M. She never says “don’t hurt my kid” or “don’t treat them like one of your regular partners.” Nope, she just says not to be sorry for his interest and that the MC will be happy. Makes no sense. Her reaction to A makes slightly more sense.

With A, Rebecca just asks if she needs to be worried, not as UB’s handler, but as a mother. This makes slightly more sense than her reaction to M watching the MC, because A is so repressed and fighting it and Rebecca (I assume) worries that A will emotionally damage the MC. But still, it is far less protective/resistant than her reaction to N.

F is probably tied with N for being the one that would never hurt the MC. So Rebecca’s reactions are the exact opposite of what I’d expect. First, she voices concern. She relents when F points out that the MC won’t break just having them around and she agrees but still seems worried.

So the question is, why? The only explanation I can come up with is that she “knows” that A and M won’t really get involved with the MC. She knows them well enough to know that A has too much self-control to give in and M will grow bored as soon as he bangs the MC, whereas N and F actually want to build something, and she finds that more dangerous because of what they are. With A, she “knows” it will never happen no matter how interested A is. With M, she “knows” that her kid may be hurt over being nothing but a one-night stand, but better that than the MC being in a relationship with a vampire.

It’s not murder, it’s self-defense. And the MC doing this a couple of times would probably put a stop to the constant stream of people wanting to kidnap the MC. But this will never happen.

I would love this. Again, it won’t happen. But I have something like this planned for another part of my fanfic because it’s just too good to leave alone. Besides, if the moles are there to destroy the Agency from the inside, what better way to do it than to release all of the caged supernaturals they’ve tortured for who knows how long?

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7097

I decided to share in images the heights of the members of the Bravo Unit for a better visualization.

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Maximum height: 6.4
Minimum height: 5.7
They are all men.
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Maximum height: 6
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They are all women.
If we are bisexual:
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Bisexual Man
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Bisexual Woman
Maximum height: 6.4
Minimum height: 5.4

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7098

Very true! I definitely agree with this.

It’s a great speculation and a great way to ensure that the Agency is still a good one with good intentions and good methods. I could also imagine that there are some “good” people on the inside of the Rogues or Trappers, possibly working to dismantle them from the inside. Though, working for the bad guys and having to do questionably moral or downright evil things is certainly an interesting way to go about doing the ‘right’ thing.

That’s fair. Personally, I can’t imagine a global agency–even a good one–that never dips their toes into morally gray areas. Gray isn’t good or bad, it just kind of is what it is. Even Mr. Rogers (of Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood fame–someone who is seen as unquestioningly good and moral) had to keep a coworker’s sexuality a secret so that neither the coworker or the show would get in trouble. It’s not ‘good’ to repress someone but it is ‘good’ to try to keep them safe and gainfully employed in a world that was not as accepting as it is now.

Rebecca’s punishment seemed rather lackadaisical to me. She did something illegal and only received desk duty? That’s quite a light slap on the wrist that surely won’t cause her to think twice about doing it again. According to Misha, we know that Rebecca will always place the MC’s life and safety above all else, but it would be interesting to see at least some kind of internal conflict between the consequences of knowingly breaking the law and saving the MC.

Characters that will always do or not do something never really grow. Or, at least don’t end up being all that interesting. But I do love that Rebecca acts as a kind of seriocomic relief in that every single one of her exits in a scene is having to take a phone call and leaving the room. What would be interesting is if all the efforts of trying to save MC by breaking the rules ends up making Rebecca cut off from key resources that would have saved MC–if only she had followed the rules. Irony can be a b*tch.

Only the Top Agent would have to know, thereby, no one else would know the true intentions. There has to be a Top Agent, right? Or is this a group run organization, like a Board of Directors or the Jedi Counsel? But, yes, I think this would definitely cause a lot of trouble.

By allowing the MC the freedom to continue living their lives on the surface despite all the danger now involved (which I agree is the right thing to do) I think they technically, or unintentionally, create the situation where the MC is like bait, even if that is something they didn’t intend to create. Which, of course, is why it’s good that they put their 2nd best agents in charge of protecting MC. I was just postulating that I thought it would be interesting if ‘baiting’ was their intended purpose.

I dunno. It’s a small town. Like the people in town choosing to forget about two recent murders, I’d imagine they would forget about the MC after not long. Having Rebecca in charge of PR is a convenient way of always being able to create excuses that a small town would believe, too.

A really simple excuse could be, “She moved to the Big City. Here is her resignation, effective immediately.” Tina and Verda would likely be pissed that the MC didn’t say goodbye, but they’d get over it eventually.

This is what I mean by taking blood without permission. An unconscious person in the hospital cannot consent to the life-saving attempts on their body. It is seen as ‘good’, though, to perform life-saving measures and have life-saving measure performed on a person. What the intent is for extracting that blood, however, could be up for debate. To have the altered blood “on file” in case the MC needs it in the future could be seen as ‘good’. Using it in other ways, even if those ways are to help other supernaturals, might be seen as ‘bad’.

I would argue that the MC isn’t a medical scientist or doctor, so the medical field’s expertise on the usage of MC’s blood should be considered more important than the MC feeling weird about having their blood used for other things. But, I suppose that’s another gray morality area.

We don’t know if the IV bags Elidor used that contained MC’s blood were the only ones (used only and specifically for this instance) or if the Agency’s medical team needed more for future contingencies. I assume there is more in storage but that’s not confirmed. Imagine Murphy breaking out of containment and getting ahold of this backlog of blood. Or any of the others in containment. Juicy plot bits!

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7099

These are super exciting theories, I love them all!

I’ve haven’t really tried to guess at what it could be since we really don’t seem to know a lot about N other than the basics, though, it does seem to me that N’s X-tier may have something to do with the extra amount of blood they apparently consume compared to the others in UB. Of course, that could just be a character quirk and nothing more.

We get a hint of this concept in Book 3 which does make me think that manipulation of some kind is involved. I’m leaning towards physical manipulation but mental manipulation would be just as exciting.

You know, I wonder if Rebecca’s weariness might have something to do with knowing that if N were to get a taste of MC’s blood, maybe N wouldn’t be able stop themselves from getting more. That might explain a little bit about N’s quirky behavior around MC’s blood at the hospital. Kind of like an addict that has been sober for a really long time and is perfectly fine as long as they don’t have even a single taste of what they were addicted to.

I know Misha has stated that MC’s blood would be addictive to supernaturals but I also think she wants to keep things well within the world of consent, so an accidental bite or a bite without permission–from the good guys–won’t likely ever happen. Which is fine with me, though, I do want to see a scenario where the RO needs to consume MC’s blood for life-saving purposes or to ‘win the day’.

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7100

Can’t say for sure, but with supernaturals and humans being involved, I doubt that there is the ‘one’ boss. Could be wrong, of course, but just can’t see it as one person show.

My main MC volunteered to act as bait. Sure, it was Rebecca shooting the idea down, but since it happened, I’m pretty sure, someone else would have heard it.
So, it just seems unlikely to me, and it would turn the agency more shady for sure. Realistic… yes. In Sera’s world? Probably not?

That would be massively depend on the MC. MCs with a bad relationship with Rebecca and a great relationship with Tina or Verda, would act totally out of character. Someone who is easy going and bending the rules, could do it and the situation would likely be less clear or more believable.

Also, Captain Sung isn’t at the station, and as such, makes me wonder, if he isn’t head of a county police force or something like that, which would widen the amount of people involved.

Again, I’d say it’ll also depend on the MC’s disposition. My main MC would be happy, if their blood would yield effects, that could be considered beneficial. He’d also be interested to see, if there is a way that he himself could use it more directed or efficiently.

At the same time, having the MC nearly dying, due to bloodloss and then taking more blood from them, while they are recovering, seems medically unwise?

Unless the blood was taken when they first got to the facility, though in that case, asking for permission seems like a moot point?

Either way, our MC is a card up of allies’ sleeve and a weapon in the hands of the enemy.

Yeah, I like that path as well. The relatively short FF I wrote kinda goes along those lines, among other things.
Hope we’ll see something like this in the official books.

7101

It could be argued that since the Agency is allowing this to happen within their walls–even if it wasn’t their decision–they could still be seen as complicit in the acts of torture. This is definitely a ‘forced hand’ kind of situation–agreeing to allow a little evil so that more good can come of it in the long run.

And, to be fair, there are criminal instances in real life where someone does something so heinous that torturing them would seem like a kindness. So, I can kind of see where the supernaturals are coming from since those who are being tortured have allegedly done some very heinous things. Would this be considered vengeful justice?

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7102

Very few things in life are good or bad, I think we agree on that.
But let me turn this thing around then - what would you have them do instead? Defy the wish of supernaturals, resulting in them not working together with the agency and as such, possibly risking the lives of people, who don’t know what’s coming?

I mean sure, some supernaturals would certainly just create communities and live in peace, but as we know, there are those, that have… special dietary needs. So, if they don’t have the means and access to them, as they do via the agency… well, you know what I mean.

Also, since we know little to nothing about the Echo world, I wouldn’t really assume any motivation about the type of punishment and whether it’s for vengeance or something else. And not all those supernaturals locked up, have attacked or offended supernaturals - but humans, so again, would vengeance apply?

This is something where I just don’t know enough about the Echo world and their traditions or means to handle those things, to really make any assumption.

At the same time, one could argue, if real prisons are torture? And aren’t people, who are locked up, in the end forced to deal with what they have done - in one way or another. And the death penalty is a massive point of debate - so if we consider it wrong for humans, should we consider it right for supernaturals?

But like I said, I agree it’s gray areas. Even our MC not telling Tina or Verda (which is an option) and thus keeping the supernaturals a secret, could be considered a gray area. Is knowledge and truth outweighing the consequences that would happen out of the information coming out into the open?

I am a fan of gray anyway, but at times, I prefer a lighter gray :laughing:

7103

Having the MC get revenge on whoever did that to M would be great, too! I feel like there is going to be some point at which M learns the truth about their past but because they have been disconnected from it for so long, this scenario would actually make more sense. An MC romancing M would likely care much much more about this. And, if it really was Murphy, that would kill two birds with one stone. Doesn’t have to be Murphy, though.

I’m still in the process of writing it but I’ve been debating whether or not to keep going with it or if it’s taking time away from something else more productive. Writing something is never unproductive, though, so if someone is interested in reading it, I’ll keep working on it! When I have something workable (and less first draft-y), I’ll let you know. It’s currently around 12k words with outlines of unfinished chapters. There’s 7 difinitive chapters so far.

I was planning on writing it for dashingdon but might do it with Twine because of the simpler process and practice with creating branching paths. I have a basic prototype on Twine already because it was recommended as a good tool for keeping track of branching paths.

A while back, I saw that you said Mishka is really good at writing interesting characters. It must be why I feel so engaged and inspired to explore her world on my own. Though, I also agree with what you said in the rest of your statement. After learning that UB is basically the Four-Temperment Ensemble, I realized that good characters don’t have to involve complicated processes and can stem from something really basic or simple.

I would love to read yours! Is it available for reading?

This seems very out of place to me, too. It makes me wonder if there’s something about N’s X-tier power(s), something about their past, or something to do with their alleged need to drink more blood than the others.

Which reminds me, it would be nice to see a scene where the MC walks in on their RO during feeding time. Is it a frightening sight? Would it be off-putting? Would it be sexy? Would it be humorous, like F carrying around a blood-filled coconut with a little umbrella and straw in it?

Oh, this is pretty juicy. This makes a lot of sense from a storytelling perspective and would be something I wouldn’t mind encountering, even though it would hurt my A and M-mancers in the long run (A more so than M if M never admits they have any feelings–A messed up by admitting that ‘something’ was there so now there’s an expectation at play).

I recall Mishka recently stating that players will be able to be in a relationship with A and M, so, even if what you mentioned is something Rebecca personally believes, she will eventually be proven wrong.

This would be really cool if it happened, all Cabin in the Woods-style. All the Freddy Kreugers, all the Aliens and Predators, all the Minotaurs and Hydras–you name it–all criminal supernatural elements released into the wild, now after the MC. Whatcha gonna do now, Unit Bravo? Keep your wits about you. This is no time for tea and pastries!

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7104

Nope, doesn’t have to be him. Honestly, I’m wondering how the whole thing with M’s past will come out. Unlike the other LIs, M can’t tell the MC about his past. Hearing it from one of the others would be fine, but it doesn’t really mean anything, you know? Once the others choose to share their pasts, that will really mean something, because it’ll be them sharing more about themselves and letting the MC into their lives more. With M… well, that isn’t an option. Either way, my M-mancer will want to destroy whoever hurt M–it’s a chance I am not counting on her getting, though.

I’m definitely interested in reading it. And, like you said, writing things isn’t unproductive. Helps stimulate that part of our brain, after all. If you do it on Twine, good luck… looking at coded games in Twine gives me a headache. It’s more intuitive, in some ways, but man does it get ugly trying to sift through it all.

Sure. Here’s a link to part I (if you manage to get through all 25 chapters, it should give you an option to go to part II at the end… only one chapter is up so far because work is insane, but I should have the second up in a couple of weeks, at most):

Yeah, the thing with him and blood doesn’t make sense. Maybe if he gets the amount he “requires” he goes bonkers or something? I’d love to see bonkers, out-of-control N. But, of course, I’m kinda hoping that the angst in N’s path ends up being them attacking the MC. For someone who typically hates angst, I get some dark ideas, lol.

Yeah, I think it fits them. And it’s the only thing that makes Rebecca’s reactions make sense. Of course, that means A will probably be totally self-flagellating because he’ll feel like he’s disappointing Rebecca, but I think Rebecca would deal with it–Sera said she wouldn’t get in the way, even if she doesn’t approve. With M… I don’t know, I don’t think M will care unless Rebecca makes a big deal of it (which would also be interesting, if Rebecca says something to M along the lines of “You implied there would never be anything between you other than your ‘typical’ activities. What happened?” Mason: shrugs Can’t help how I feel.).

Yeah, with the MC having to hide while the entirety of the Agency’s torture prisons hunts them down. I think they’d need more than UB at their side to keep them alive. And they could go on the offensive, so the hunters become the hunted. It’d be chaos!

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7105

Since this series is gonna be a long one, I wonder just how far we will get to take the relationships? I’m also curious on how each RO would feel about wanting to start a family and stuff like that.

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7106

@Azraeel

How UB feels about kids:

As for the relationships, Sera has said repeatedly that the M & A paths will take a very long time with a really long build up, but there will be a relationship before the final book. I wouldn’t count on it being too much before the final book for either of them, based on her tumblr answers and/or refusals to answer certain questions, though. So yeah, it’s going to be painfully slow for A and pretty painfully slow for M, with “romance” moments of build-up along the way.

For F & N, well, at this point you can already choose to be in a relationship with them, so it will only get deeper…

The LT, if I remember correctly will be resolved seriously late, like book 6. However, I remember a couple of asks where she said she will/might offer the option to make a final choice sooner for those who can’t endure the angst.

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7107

Really?? That’s wild, Twilight’s LT didn’t even last that long, ahaha. At that point if I were N or A I would refuse to be in a relationship with the MC, that’s way too much back and forth between two people in my opinion. I might be biased though because I despise love triangles.

I wonder if we could woo or romance A or M in the mean time without being in a committed relationship. I think that would be a good balance while waiting for them. Back and forth angst with half ass confessions with small doses of affection isn’t much. Definitely isn’t romance. I’ma send in an ask about that.

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7108

Pretty sure you will not be able to woo other member of UB or other characters on the matter once you’ve chosen your route.

I know some fans enjoy angst but I’m not a fan, the reason why I chosen individual routes rather than the LT because for one, I prefer A over N so I find it unfair. :joy:

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7109

Oh, no I said A and M because they have a slow and angst romance routes, but I meant if you were on their routes individually, not while you’re on A’s route and then you’re trying to romance M, ahaha.

The LT route is not for me either. Can’t stand em.

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7110

Yeah, I’m not typically a fan of love triangles either. Still, they can be done well sometimes. As for N or A refusing to be in a relationship with the MC, I think it’s N that I don’t get in all this. A is pretty much unavailable. They show more interest in the MC in the LT than in their solo route, but they are still constantly pushing away the MC. N is totally available and already starting to get that feeling something isn’t quite right. I don’t see how they can keep going much longer in a relationship with the MC if the MC is always turning to A and giving them “looks” and being drawn to them. For A, there’s nothing there anyway except for A being in love with the MC and not wanting to be. So once N and the MC start dating, it’s just A being mopey and wishing they were the one.

I don’t know, it’s just squicky. I would’ve much preferred a trio, with N and the MC harassing A into pulling the stick out and being happy. Or pulling it out for them. A wouldn’t have been able to keep up the grouchy stoicism with two people they loved pushing them into being happy.

Like Resuri said, the MC can’t romance anyone else once they’ve chosen their path.

I’m guessing you mean the MC dating someone else while trying to ‘romance’ A or M? If so, I agree with you. Personally, I’d love to see the MC date while on those two paths. My M-mancer wouldn’t do it (she’s too clueless to realize when someone likes her, anyway), but my A-mancer would because “there’s nothing going on.”

Agreed. But it has been stated that the build-up is considered to be the romance, so that is the romance we get with A and M for the majority of the series.

Honestly, a lot of it could be mitigated with the MC being able to establish some sort of closeness to someone outside of UB in the A and M paths, whether it’s a close friendship that seems like more, a flirtation that makes A and M uncomfortable, or the MC flat out dating someone else in an effort to “get past” something they “know” they can never have (not going as far as sex, of course, though considering M wants no strings at all, the MC can do as they please).

Unfortunately, I think (and I’m guessing here) that Sera would consider dating (or even flirting with) someone else to be cheating at this point, even if there isn’t really much on the M path other than sex and a moment or two of genuine affection (which will apparently be followed by M making it clear that the MC means nothing to them) and nothing much on A’s path other than, as you put it, back and forth angst with half-ass confessions.

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7111

Oh, that’s interesting. Hm, if the MC is in a relationship with N, N is suspicious, and then realizes that the MC is drawn romantically towards A that’s just immediate grounds for a break up from my perspective. I mean, that won’t happen but I agree that I wouldn’t be able to understand how N could be accepting of that realistically. I guess N could be compared to Edward who accepts that his girlfriend is “in love” with another man.

Ahahah, A is funny I swear. I wish we could suggest therapy for him, it might help heal his trauma.

You would’ve preferred N, A, and the MC to be in a relationship together?? That sure would be less drama and very exciting. N and the MC get together and then slowly realize that they want A in on the action and romance him until he surrenders his love would be wild.

As for the wooing and romance, that’s not what I meant at all. I wouldn’t be down for that when it comes to two people from UB, but I mentioned A and M in the same sentence because they both have slow and angst written romances. In regards to that I was saying it would be nice to romance them individually (not romancing A and then being romantic towards M) by buying them gifts, surprise them by holding their hands for a few seconds, kiss their hand how F could do in part one etc. Basically to compensate and have a balance considering the romance is slow-paced.

Dating someone else while romancing one of UB, hm…that’s different. I’ve never seen that being written in a game before. The problem is would the person we’re dating consider that cheating? Or does dating mean going on dates (with casual sex?) with them but we aren’t exclusive therefore we can freely romance someone else without it being cheating?? I kinda like that idea, minus the casual sex, but you never know.

I wonder if that’s because A and M aren’t showing any interest in anyone else, nor are they pursuing romance or casual sex with anyone either. I don’t consider that cheating, but if she’s thinking from that perspective then it makes a bit of sense. It’s like a commitment without actually verbalizing it. Having casual sex with one person with no side pieces is a loose commitment, but eh. A doesn’t have even a loose commitment, but they definitely wouldn’t entertain anyone else, shrugs. Ahaha!

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7112

I was reading through things and saw that the author had said, “Wayhaven is a book series I’ve had in my head for many, many years and when it was originally going to be a novel series, the love triangle was the romance for the original narrative.”

I found that really interesting! Especially seeing as she did M’s romance really well, considering how they weren’t even originally a love interest.

But it got me curious. In the original story, who ended up with the detective? N or A?

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