The Wayhaven Chronicles: Book Three (WIP -FINAL DEMO)

Hosted Games
4924
@SnowPhoniex

Agreed. My M-mancer didn’t snoop (she thinks people are entitled to their privacy), nor did my N-mancer, for similar reasons. My F-mancer didn’t snoop because that would’ve required effort and she’s lazy. My A-mancer totally snooped and honestly didn’t care if A liked it or not.

I’ve just worried with M that we won’t get to find out their backstory from them. I mean, it’s another one of those things that’s too obvious not to have it happen, but I’m not sure if that sort of attention will be given to M.

Agree with all of that, but it was recently pointed out to me that we shouldn’t expect her writing to improve, things to make sense, or for growth.

We can complain to each other all we want about inconsistencies or annoyances, but we can’t expect her to consider them or even care if we have issues or not. And when she’s this successful, and has such a rabid following that sees her as completely flawless, it actually makes sense that she’ll do as she pleases and ignore anyone who points out perceived problems with the story or characters. And, really, there’s not a damned thing any of us can do about it, except discuss it with each other on this board.

One thing that really irritated me was that, to my recollection, we didn’t get that option with any of the others, making it seem that the MC doesn’t give a damn about M, A, or F’s comfort level. N is the only one who gets told that their feelings on the matter actually matter.

@astronaughty

Unlike you, I love the relationship stage, mainly because I’m a huge fan of couples tackling problems together, with a united front, instead of spending half their time trying to get from the “I’m attracted” phase to the “we’re together” phase because one or both parties is forced by the plot to be a moron or a difficult pain in the ass who is unwilling to even try to be with the MC. Granted, we get that with F and N, but I’m not a fan of their characters, so I’m stuck with the two that are eternally stuck in the build-up phase and will continue to be stuck there for almost the entirety of the series, bouncing back and forth, depending on the situation, with any progress immediately being undone to drag it out more.

And progress is immediately negated at the beginning of each book for two of the ROs.

See, that’s the thing… I don’t think it would happen too fast, leaving nothing new to learn. You can get to the relationship stage and still not know everything there is to know about your partner. Hell, you can be with someone for years and still learn something new about them.

What I thought would happen–before reading the tumblr asks where she said M would take till b5 and A would take till b6 to get to a “deep romance” stage (which doesn’t even mean a relationship by her definition)–was that the romances would progress and they’d be in relationships within a few books, at most (if the MC was into it), then UB’s past would come back to haunt them and various supernaturals would cause problems that threatened to tear them apart or took the MC from them. Instead, it’s just two ROs fight their feelings for the MC, one of them lies constantly (despite being the best communicator in the bunch), and the last one is pretty much angst-free except for being sad over their mother.

I was actually quite happy with M’s route, when I thought the progression actually happened. But they’ll be back to stupid again, so it was kind of pointless.

My guess is stuff will happen when it was decided, long ago, to happen. It almost feels like everything is in a holding pattern until b5 goes down, with any progress with A or M being superficial, N getting more and more sus, and F just being the “happy” route.

So the romance is over once people are together? I’ve found quite the opposite. The real interesting part happens when they’re together. F and N don’t have to spin their wheels–they can keep moving forward. But there has to be something to make them more interesting, which can easily come from outside sources.

It feels like the actual plot never caused any stress for any of them, though, except for the auction at the end and the initial mention of the bounty. The MC never felt like they were in danger, especially holed up in the warehouse. If they had been out there, getting hurt… or the capture had lasted longer… there could’ve been some real fear going on for both the LI and the MC. Instead, it was like, “meh, you’re fine.”

On a different note, I’ve decided I want Murphy back, not as an enemy, but as the one who has to help figure out exactly what was done to the MC with their little experiment. That’d be fun for the MCs who captured him…

4 Likes
4925

There are already signs in book 3 that A not being able to make up their mind and communicate with the mc by being hot-and-cold in the manner that they do is hurtful and feels (to some readers) toxic and even abusive. The mixed signals they give to the mc might be natural to their character considering their background and personality, but the cycle of getting some sort of affection to then abruptly being turned away again starts to feel forced and annoying to some. Imo, even A’s arc would’ve benefited from being shorter, more concise.

There are also concerns that M’s progress in b3 will be ignored in the next book, sending them into the same vicious cycle as A.

The length of the series might not be the initial problem, but i think that it makes other problems more apparent. Some issues with the pacing in romantic paths could’ve been avoided if there were fewer books. That’s what i feel at least :thinking:

7 Likes
4926

I feel you, you and similar minded readers deserve better than this :joy:

See, i appreciate that the series provides both for people who like long bumpy rides to romance (M, A) and people who enjoy established relationships (F, N) but it kinda struggles with handling either of those?

Most people enjoy it nonetheless, of course, but I’m not most people and love complaining, so here i am doing just that:)

True, and it all must be supported by the overall plot, external conflicts, well-written antagonists with interesting motivations, just general interesting shit happening in the story that affects the established romances, challenges the status quo of these relationships, makes the mc and their RO work together to better their bond, and brings new stuff to the table to expand on the characters and their relationships.

Except, all that plot-related crap was the worst part about book 3. Which is why I’m having my concerns about the romance paths. I mean, it’s not time to panic yet - book 3 might just be an exception, and we’ll get a better plot and what have you in book 4 and onward.

5 Likes
4927

Don’t you play games with my heart, don’t say this please dear god

4928

Not completely ignored, but M will revert back to being a dumbass, so the scene with A where M seemed to realize feelings has to be ignored, along with M taking a shot to the “Never have I ever fallen for a colleague” bit.

1 Like
4929

I’m sorry :skull_and_crossbones:

That’s what i felt in A’s route when b3 demo dropped and whatever progress happened during the carnival was swept under the rug. Now that M is my preferred RO, i pray that the same thing won’t happen again :sob:

1 Like
4930

Normally I can still enjoy a book if the plot is lacking but the characters are lovely, but I will say that in this case I’m a little less inclined to follow my usual line of thought because it’s been three books and personally I don’t believe a lot has happened other than “bad guy kidnaps u, bad guy kidnaps someone who talked to u, bad guy kidnaps someone you know to get to you question mark” (which some people will think of as a lot, but eh to me it feels repetitive and not too thrilling.)
Wayhaven’s main thing is not the plot and that’s obvious and okay, but I don’t want to get another kidnapping plot in the following books and that’s it.
I think some people said they would like it if nothing too dangerous happened to MC for a change in the next book, but I’m dreading said idea because I need some kind of stimulus to fully enjoy a story… not to mention at least I can feed on drama if nothing else.

13 Likes
4931

Well, I’m right there with you, lol.

The funny part is that I was seriously excited about the plot. I had been dying for the MC to be in real danger and end up kidnapped. But the execution was flat. There was no real sense of danger or extended uncertainty from the LIs about the whole ordeal.

Having the MC be able to get through Sin’s barriers was really cool, but when combined with the danger to the MC, it just seemed meh. I think that, if another supernatural had been sent from the Trappers, maybe one that was powerful enough to be a threat to both UB and the MC, with Sin there as backup, it might have worked better. Sin could’ve seen the MC fighting like hell to protect UB and supes that were in danger, as well as fighting for themselves, and started gaining respect that way.

Then, have the MC get taken no matter what–which means, for those who took R, she would’ve been knocked out and/or captured, too–and leave UB trying to find them, with the Trappers moving location again to make it difficult. It would give the MC and Rebecca a chance to plot together or maybe she would get mind-whacked like Bobby could have. Let days pass before UB finds them, with the LI completely freaking out over it. And then Sin showing up to provide the location, breaking their fake bond with the auctioneer, and offering to help. In the meantime, you have the MC really pissed off (or frightened, if you want to go that route), and fighting the Trappers every chance they got. Still getting the auction scene with the LI, but when the tension has built high for all of them, with the MC realizing they’re on their own and the LI being even more emotional about finding them.

There are a lot of ways the tension could’ve been brought to a nerve-wracking level with that plot, but it never got past a almost simmer when the bounty was shown and devolved into a “this makes no sense” thing.

10 Likes
4932

Like, okay, i really love myself a slow burn. I love a really long, painful slowburn, so A’s route was my favourite in the first two books.

But then the demo for b3 dropped and… A reverting to “cold mode” off screen between the two books was an extremely unsatisfactory progression of his route. I don’t mind an up-and-down, teeter-totter romance per se, anything can work, but it simply didn’t in b3’s demo for me. It didn’t make much sense, and i found it extremely hard to roleplay a detective who would be okay woth A’s behaviour.

Like, nothing really happened between the end of b2 and beginning of b3 for A to revert to cold mode, at least nothing that our mc would be aware of. So it just felt unearned. It didn’t feel natural.

My hope is that, if M must to grow colder and dumber in the next book, there would be a more natural progression (or, rather, digression) to their feelings and behaviour rather than “they just kinda changed their mind off screen”.

7 Likes
4933

That’s part of why I can’t shut up about it - the potential was there, so many interesting bits and pieces, it could’ve been a really awesome plot, and i just keep thinking of ways it could’ve gone, but the execution is so underwhelming.

An op supernatural that no one but you can fight, except you don’t really get to actually fight them. The fact that they’re forced to commit atrocities by the BBEG’s hand and you can reach out to them, but they don’t try and break their bond and do literally nothing until you capture the BBEG. Seems like a waste.

The idea of someone you’re close to being kidnapped, and you having to save them. I liked that the mc can experience this crushing guilt knowing that so many people are suffering only because the BBEG wants to get to you. Except we as a reader don’t really care about any of the kidnapees. I personally couldn’t care less about elidor/vieno/tapeesa. Sorry, babes.

If unit bravo doesn’t get to join us at the auction until the very end when it’s time to completely crush the party, then why not make it so our LI or our bff is the one captured?

Infiltrating the auction sounds dope, but the BBEG is so fucking stupid I can’t take him seriously enough to view him as a legit threat. Sending an invite to the detective (an active duty police officer!! Who’s openly working with the agency’s…agents!) after harassing them and kidnapping their friend in the hopes that they will not only be chill with his human trafficking business but might even decide to participate in the auction. where does he think we’ll get enough money for it anyway? What made him think we would join him? Why was he so ill prepared against the agency’s forces? Why didn’t we see Sin protecting the auctioneer from the mc? That would’ve been such a cool scene, a scene where he would finally break the bond if we worked hard enough to convince him it was possible. Aaaa. I could go on. But I’m tired :joy:

4 Likes
4934

What’s BBEG shortened from?

4935

I don’t want to shoot the poor clown when they’re already down, but the fact that the auctioneer was presented (I think by Rebecca) as this powerful, ruthless and overall dangerous individual only for them to get captured easily/acting like nothing more than your stereotypical monologue villain sure was an experience.
Wayhaven has a lot of good ideas, but most of the time they fall really flat and it’s a shame. For example, there are a lot of breadcrumbs which could fix a lot of the issues I have with xyz, but I’m not quite sure if they’ll get a chance to play out in the end. I’m hoping, but I’ll keep my expectations low going forward

7 Likes
4936

Big Bad End (or Evil) Guy, it’s an acronym that is generally used to refer to a game’s final boss.

1 Like
4937

Yeah gonna be honest, I was expecting a lot more from them and they went down pretty quick

4938

Yep, talking about the agency files. I’m trying to run though almost every variable possible so I tried that route out to see what would happen. IRL, I wouldn’t check, and as a suggestion for readers, I would recommend not checking, either. The reader gets more info and a better scene with their RO/LI if they don’t check. From a Meta standpoint, it’s nice to have bits and pieces of knowledge that even the characters don’t know/say, though.

It does feel this way, doesn’t it? Kind of like the opposite of elves? Elves are generally depicted as wise and mature due to their long lifespans but I get the feeling, too, that since there’s no rush, perhaps Echolians don’t rush (into learning, into experiencing things, etc.).

Great observation. M asked the Agency to block their memory, so at least it wasn’t forced upon them. But not having any memories past, say, the age of 20 or 30 would be very interesting to deal with. I would think they would retain the things they learned from that time, just would have no memory of it. So, for example, maybe M’s muscle memory knows how to ride a bike, but M themselves don’t know they know how to ride one.

I would say this is pretty accurate. Even A makes a comment that eternity is longer than the MC may think. It would have to be a kind of slow torture after a certain amount of time, never fully resting, never fully living. It’s a nice lesson somewhere along the lines of: “And in the end, it’s not the years in your life that count. It’s the life in your years.”

1 Like
4939

didn’t sera say some time ago,that there was a supernatural who fell in love with M?I get the feeling Alima might be the one she was talking about.Which could mean M might have panicked because he is kind of exclusive with our detective and Alima finding out about it would be like poking a hornet nest of jelousy.

2 Likes
4940

This is exactly what I thought all the soul bond talk in the story was leading to, too. But from hearing from others in this thread, it kind of sounds like that is NOT a goal of Sera’s. If that’s true, it’s kind of a let down because soul bonding was made such a big deal in this book I figured the MC and the RO/LI were the exceptions to any kind of rarity that it would happen with a vampire.

If this is true, maybe it shouldn’t be a choice? It doesn’t have to be an actual bite, after all, if that’s what the sensitivity checkers are concerned about. There are other ways of getting blood out for consumption. Why make such a big deal over the vampires having a harder time controlling their feral instincts around the MC if an optional choice of NOT drinking their blood is going to fix it? They are already NOT drinking the MC’s blood right now.

I think running with the theme that the MC and LI/RO are destined for each other is a good one, and making such a big deal out of soul bonds has to be some kind of Chekov’s Gun, unless all that talk was just to get the audience to like Sin more. If it’s the latter, that’s kind of lame, tbh. I already liked Sin, and couldn’t learn about any of this on a ‘combat training’ route but ended up liking Sin just the same.

It’s this clear theme that I hope is addressed satisfactorily. Maybe I’m assuming that “biting the MC” means not drinking their blood at all, but if it does mean that, how is this strong, compounding desire going to be resolved?

1 Like
4941

Btw is the no romance route still…a thing? I remember trying it at some point in b2 and it was pretty lackluster, i wonder how much worse (or better??) It is in b3 :joy:

1 Like
4942

I feel like my perception of immortal or being with massive lifespans has definitely changed after reading manga like “To Your Eternity” and “Sousou no Frieren”, specially with how for them a few decades might pass them by before they realise what is really going on around them, specially with Frieren with how those with shorter lifespans have changed massively because of them going through their lifespans but Frieren who is a High Elf is still very much so the same person she was since they last met them.

The truth for an immortal is that they have no real rush to do anything unless there is a present need to do anything, I mean F being 70 years old and still being like someone in their late teens really shows a difference compared to the MC or even with M, MC is a working adult who has had to deal with a bunch of different things through their life and can range from generally being a jackass or someone just as mature as someone like N, and M generally being more someone in their 20s in terms of maturity.

I do find it quite interesting because M chose it, so there was something they wanted to forget, and we sort of got a glimpse of part of it from Book 2 in the House of Mirrors, it is likely that the event when they turned was quite violent and traumatic for them to choose to forget.

Frankly I wish I could say I don’t have experience with that idea, because frankly speaking is still a kind of ongoing part of my life, with the inability to do much else than to just see time pass me by, so despite being in my mid 20s this year I haven’t really been able to do much with my life, I do get that the life you experience those years is what really matters the most, because I have been held back from doing all the living I’ve wanted to do because of my own parents being overbearing and overprotective (also without the means to sustain myself I can’t just go against them either since it is just a situation where they hold all the power over me and use it oppressively), that is part of why I am drawn so heavily to interactive stories where I can live a different life, but frankly speaking despite nearly 25 I feel like I’ve barely lived at all.

I feel like it is going to end up being sort of like an addictive thing for your Romantic Interest of Choice, some of them might struggle with it more than others, because the power up from the blood in itself is addictive, so I wonder if we might end up with feeding our partner to survive a situation where we are stuck, and it might end up with them nearly loosing control before our BFF comes to stop them.

There is certainly drama there and for a struggle in the relationship to ensue from there, I feel like each other UB members would feel it differently but they would all be scared to hurt the mc because of their vampiric urges.

As an aside I wonder if we will get a choice to turn into a vampire ourselves at some point, because I feel like that is something hinted at on occasion, and I feel like it would make sense if the MC would at some point be ok with turning into a vampire mainly if they want to stay by their Romantic Interest for a long time, but I can also see some MCs choosing to live out a normal human life.

Though I feel like it would be really sad for our Romantic Interest to have to loose us to time itself in the long term.

3 Likes
4943

This is what I was thinking, too. The first time it’s ever mentioned in the text it’s from M being protective around the MC in Book 1, so I figured since the MC never mentioned seeing fangs, or overly large canines, the very first time they all met at the abandoned warehouse or the first time in the detective’s office, that they weren’t visible until the vampire goes into “Vampire Mode”.

If the fangs are visible at all times, it’s weird for the MC to ever “forget that they’re vampires”. Like, are your eyes not working well MC?

This is what I’m hoping for, too. :hugs:

1 Like