The War for the West (WIP)



Yes the same bug.
So I started game with 1300+army & Straightaway sent 500 troops (400 milita) to aid the king. I also sent 100 troops to patrol the coast after attack. The rest of militia I converted to other units. There were like 20+ militia left at this point in army.
Then I sent Vradnir & took control of fallen star at this point & lost 127 troops. Most of them were militias that were killed & I think that’s what sent their numbers in the negative.


Well, there is a fourth hint but it’s kinda vague which might provide solid lead if investigated (by spies of course).
That is the absence of any troops in Castle Dullis’s training yard. Even MC thinks whether Lord Dulsen is trying to hide his troop numbers. If he does then for what reason?
There’s also the revelation by Danna that her brother is fighting brigands elsewhere. Now this might provide for a believable reason for their absence earlier but a more sceptical player might not choose to believe that.

That would work I believe. You could set it so the spy event won’t show up untill you’ve exhausted all of the pool of hold court events.
Still it would leave ample time for Sielcner invasion to occur since that event triggering letter arrives in later half of year IIRC. You could calibrate that event with the pool of hold court events left. If it’s exhausted then the Sielcner letter arrives immediately.
Those who are playing without help of cheat menu would enjoy seemless experience & those playing with it can still build up their army & enjoy other aspects of game.

And I can confirm that although we receive Sielcner letter there’s currently no consequnece of choosing not to respond. So you can leave it hanging & continue doing other things & respond to it as you wish.

Yes, the one relating to Forgotten One with huge foreshadowing for what’s to come.

Huge tease! I can barely contain my excitement! Thanks for tease though. :grin:

I always choose to support Meinstrels to get land bonus (don’t know how that helps in game though), go with kind father (population boost later), Old & Proud background (don’t know what that helps with). With all these exact backgrounds I get large variations in army numbers ranging from 800+ to 1300+ . That shouldn’t be the case. Hence why I suggested Hard Limits based on all these factors.

I was thinking along the lines of, MC wakes up near the village, realise what is about to happen, turn back & return your castle, there MC can maybe plan a surgical strike to try to cripple Church leadership through an elite team of assassins leaving it’s leadership short of say 5 or 6 Genderless.
Or maybe full scale invasion of Ehael with you battling the silver knights. But of course this a ludicrous idea which would lead to Mc being declared a Pariah, peasant revolt & other countless problems.

Which is why I like the idea involving assassins.
Still any such idea would be moot since the Genderless have the gift of sight “Allegedly” & they could easily see any such measure coming.
Or are they too occupied with their schemes & machinations that they only see that branch of future where they succeed? You know, since future has many streams according to Helen of streams.
My head hurts. :dizzy_face:


I think you meant prosperous. Without cheat menu it’s very hard to get. With cheat menu it’s a child’s play. You just have to get your treasury across 100000 Aurens.

Yea you can’t save those folks along with Red Tull, Sister Myra. They represent the terrible effects of war. All these characters are either acquainted or are friends with MC & affect him personally & us (through MC of course)
Our MC even wonders after battle that if this is what victory looks like then what would a defeat be like.

That was actually a bug which would continuously give us combat bonus by just going there to train troops & returning without training them.
You can Train troops by:

  • Doing a series of exercises
  • Practicing formation
  • Talking tactical approach

All these things are then taken over by Vradnir our First Knight & he keeps training them in these aspects as indicated in the game itself.
This aspect of game is there to show off MC’s high combat & knowledge which opens options such as Tactical approach or Formation etc. With low combat & knowledge you can’t do either.


I remember it finally showing up at the end of the Offering month.


Minor typo:


Maybe he was referring to this


Ok, I’m changing the calculation here. Before you would lose a % of all your troops, regardless of number. Now I put a specific criteria regarding the number of each type of troops.

You need 2 “menpower”(this is a hidden variable that is not used anywhere else, I’m talking about it here just for the sake of clarification)

= 200 Militia = + 1 Menpower
= 100 archers + 1 Menpower
= 50 knights + 2 Menpower
= 200 men at arms + 2 menpower

As long as you have over 2 menpower, Vradnir wins the battle. You will also loose some troops, but they will always be less than half of what was required, so as to guarantee that you will never lose more troops than you currently have.


Something that I already stated & is still nagging me, The men at arms are supposed to be better equipped, better trained as compared to militias. I mean they are professional soldiers whereas militias are just peasants trained to hold spears.

Currently as earlier stated by you also, other units does what we think they do. Archers do ranged units bit & knights are heavy cavalry.
Men at arms should be seen as a more capable fighting force than militias & not be there in game just to build up pool to recruit knights from.
Also we go to a lot of trouble to train militias to become Men at Arms. Might as well reflect that training in game during battle.

@mahatmadagon don’t you think other players would notice this too?


I’m adding this to the annotations. I’ll try to put something about this when I implement more spy stuff.

It makes sense, but my main problem with making the Sielcner letter appear when you end up all your court events is that some players might just spam the Hold Court button and then end the game in little more than two months. There are also some events that only happen if some other stuff(which are date dependent) happen first, so it would end up with some HC events never appearing.

I can’t think of a good solution for this yet. The best option would be to add a lot more of HC events, but I also don’t want to keep adding too many “boring” events just to fill the gaps. Balancing this has been one of my main struggles with the game.

It will take a few playthroughts for me to get what I feel is the “right” vibe. I might even lessen the days require for the Sielcner invasion overall, and then add some spystuff(sabotage, perhaps, when you learn it might happen) so that it is delayed through gameplay rather than cheats.

Yup, it isn’t supposed to stay that way, but I’m just letting it roll like this there until the game has a proper end.

I think it just affects descriptions/dispositions and flavor text. I want all of that stuff to be more or less balanced regarding gameplay, but I’m open to ideas.

I think it lessens Civil Unrest as well, and it might give an immediate population boost even before the event (which then adds another one, IIRC)

Same with supporting or not the Meinstrels here, I think it is mostly text flavor, but I have some old annotations regarding a specific event for each origin.

The variance comes because your army is a % of your total population + some factors, but I’m kinda okay with it not being a hard number at the end. Maybe it could have less variance, IDK.

Yup, I thought of some stuff as well, but I don’t want to implement a path where you can’t feel all the main consequences of such impactful actions(which would be too many).

I really don’t know if it is achievable right now without cheats. You can get at at least 25k by looting Sielccia later on, and I plan to add some more ways to win money.

It nags me as well, but I haven’t come up with a way to implement this efficiently. There are a lot of things pilling up. I might just lower the cost of converting to men at arms and add the raised morale option somehow, but I still don’t think it would be enough.


Yes, this makes sense to me & it’s an interesting way to delay Sielcner invasion while also adding more spy stuff. It’s a win all round.

More land could mean more population as they can have more livable land.
Or more land that can be used for agriculture.
But I’m guessing that won’t be an option either since our fiefdom isn’t doing that well agriculture wise as Dullis is. Of course people don’t starve but there’s not exactly surplus either as reflected in providing food through church event.
Another option would be to gain more mountainous land to gain even more profits & tax revenue from mining expedition we fund.

It’ll definitely enrich the game story further. If you’re in doubt then I’d suggest to pull the trigger & add them. We can provide feedback then what works for us players.

I’d guess with the background I start with, my army should have 1200+ troops to begin with. Variance is good & it can vary upward instead of downward after that. But if you’d like to keep them as is then that’s fine too. :smiley:

Without cheats it’s impossible to get this achievement. Ok let’s do the math.
25k from Sielccea, 4k from EBB, 2.5k from Mulligan brothers, 6k tax revenue till Sielcner invasion, 2k from Nellahsa?, 5k from Inquisitors for beasts body - 2k for forging Sword.
Total 42.5k Still falls short

How about concept of Dowry in this world? Does it exsit? If Yes than marrying Danna Dullis should provide a sizeable dowry of atleast 10k or maybe even more.
Though personally i find the concept barbaric & reprehensible. Still it was practiced in medieval times so…
To increase money maybe even look at option to invest in Fiefs economy to develop Mills, Wine-Oil pressings, larger markets to attract more businessmen & more rest houses for them to stay leading to earning of greater revenues.
There are so many ways we can do this.

The big hurdle here being ofcourse is that where’s such financial resources are gonna come from to invest in such endeavour to begin with.
My suggestion? Long to term loans. Not like the one’s in game that have to paid back within 4 months but longer still.

Also, when will the benefits of commercial treaties with Dullis & Bolgan be felt? Can they come any sooner or are they gonna appear along with the other end game stuff?

Speaking of Dullis, if you haven’t added any particular event while visiting Smelly Mule tavern in Hilltown then might I suggest a robbery event?
Where our MC discovers info about same painting that Mulligan brothers are discussing & instead steals it himself, later selling it for 6k pocketing all the profits himself

Maybe set some vairables that allow men at arms to kill more militia units during battle, better formations (which already exist I think).


Will this game go further than the war with Sielccia? I liked the game so far, despite how hard it was to actually win the war.
Also, how does rebuilding Emyria affect you? Is there a boost to population? Do you plan on adding some naval warfare on it, following Roman/Byzantine or the usual boarding model?


Yes! @mahatmadagon has plans for sequel after this one.

Well, that has changed a lot & for the better. There’s now a cheat menu to up MC’s stats, money for treasury, delaying the invasion & more!
You can now also recruit troops throughout the game to increase your army size & then another troops recruitment option just before the battle.


After playing the game normally for a while, whenever I try to hold court now it keeps saying: “Nothing happens today”
Even though I know there are still some eventsI haven’t gotten yet in court and all the others options still work.


Any commercial treaty you start in the game adds a bonus do your overall taxes, I just don’t remember how much it is. I have to test it and then see if it needs tweaking.

I think it would make more sense for a robbery event of… you being robbed by someone while visiting the Smelly Mule(which IIRC is in the poor part of town). I also would like to keep the Mulligan Brother’s painting stuff as contained as possible so as not to reveal the name of the buyer and give some possible spoilers.

After the war there is a sequence of events that deal with the consequences of it and your previous decisions, and then there are a few more scenes and interactions depending on which ending you get.

Rebuilding Emyria lowers Civil Unrest, eventually raises your population by a little bit and might get you some Morale as well. I don’t plan on anything naval for this game, but I would very much like to do some stuff on the next one.

So, when you Hold Court, here’s what happens: The game randomizes a number between 1 and the maximum number of existing events, and then checks if the event which has been associated to that number has already happened.

If it hasn’t already happened, he checks if it CAN happen. Which means he checks if it has any conditions(such as: another specific event happening before, or the time of the year, etc).

If the event CAN happen, then the event is displayed.

If the event CAN’T happen, then the events go to a pool of “placeholder events”, which there must be less than 10 of them, and happen in order for each time you get sent there. The last one is “Nothing happens today.”

The point is: It happens this way so something shows up even if you can’t do the current event. I could just reroll the numbers, but then the player might get stuck there forever.

I’m still looking for better ways to do this. I think I can make the “Hold Court” option disappear untill you have some event to do, but I don’t know if that’s the best solution.


Speaking of events that can’t happen more than once, I remember getting the court event of that one Boglan chick asking for asylum in my lands multiple times, and I’m pretty sure this kind of event is only supposed to happen once.


Other than the “Nothing happens today” event, no other Court Event should be repeteable. This might be happening with Nellasha because I recently did some changes to her variables. I’ll take a look when I get home.


Just replayed it (after not playing since the last update), and I really enjoyed it.

I turned on Sielc in Dullis and whooped him then annexed his lands by bloodright without asking permission, I usually force a fight with Dullis and lose.


@mahatmadagon found a bug

On some rare occasions (after saving game in stats menu I think) the return to game option disappears
EDIT: oops! Wrong ss
Suggestions to logically improve castle defences:

Digging of moats around our castle rendering Sielcner siege towers, ladders, battering rams to be useless.

Using hot oil to drench the enemy then burn them. Like if there’s water in moat & our troops pour oil in it right when enemy tries to navigate it & then set it on fire. This would make for a very satisfying scene & if such tactics are based on knowledge alone then it may even lessen the penalty of choosing to improve knowledge over combat. Of course this would prevent one from earning the giant slayer achievement but a low combat MC couldn’t even if he wished to.

Lord Noyedas can keep his war monk, my high knowledge + combat MC can take them any day in war tactics :joy:

Also, I was wondering why didn’t our MC go to Kings end right after winning the battle?
Either way (siege or field battle) we have to consider that there was a second Sielcner army camped near King’s End & if went with the siege route then it falls & Lord Goyler is taken prisoner.
Or in siege route we fight both armies combined?
That would still leave the field battle route.


But then would that not make the encounter with the giant knight impossible?


If an option is provided to dig a moat then it would be up to the player whether he want to add that extra layer of defence or not.
Remember your castle need not start the game with a moat. It can be added through quatermaster aspect of game.
Like currently we do have option to strengthen the walls. Why not build additional defences?
If one chooses not to then that particualr achievement would still be available.

That’s the beauty of this game you see, it provides so much choice that we are spoiled for it.


So I’ve been wondering, is it possible the painting the Mulligan brothers are looking for is a painting of The Triple Chalice? If so, who is the person looking for the painting, besides being a important member of the Ludlandian Nobility? If someone did a playthrough and found out what the cult of The Triple Chalice actually is, and why they tried to assassinate the MC, please tell me, I already know about the Genderless conspiracy but I suspect the two aren’t connected, since when the MC tells the Genderless that he will always come back in the past no matter how many times they kill the MC, one of the Genderless says this “It happened before, in the future we avoided.”,“Are they behind it?”,“No. This is not their poison.”, Hellen also says, when asked about the Triple Chalice that they are the Past, the Present and the Future, and that they’re all poisoned., if you read the summary, you’d understand that the Past is the child, Present, the adult and the Future is the old man
This is what the Mulligan brothers say when the MC convinces them to give him more information, the check for obtaining this info is 40 social, IIRC:


“The piece depicts three men of varying ages, but with similar looks, as if they all belonged to the same family. One is but a children, another a full grown adult, and the other old and wrinkled. They are all dressed in robes, as if attending to some ancient party, and each holds a goblet. It is not signed, but most scholar believe it was was painted by Nocol Verapit, the personal painter of Emperor Luminur. It would be one of the few art relics from the Old Empire that survived the southern cataclysm.”

All of this was hastily written on my phone, so I apologise for any gramatical or otherwise errors, but I’d like to give my collected thoughts and ramblings on the matter.
The author wrote a very intriguing world, indeed.

Speculation about Triple Chalice

What you speculated is quite possible. That painting might very well be of what we now know as Triple Chalice.

Alternatively, Triple Chalice might be a reference to something else altogether. Dominant religion of Ludland is the Worship of ‘The Two’ & that soothsayer predicts the coming of ‘The Third’ that formed from ‘The Two’. What I gleaned from that info. is that ‘The Third’ is either the abyssal beast we slew (less likely) or the waking up of ‘The Wrym’.
Now Wrym is kinda monster which Vytheo Sielc believed would have turned the tide of war in his favour. Of course he didn’t know that the ancient power he was looking for was actually a monster. It remains buried somewhere near King’s End. Which is why I believe that one way or another, that town is toast. Either at the hands of Sielcner army or the ‘Cult of Abyss’ you know, the mad folks from Dagoria.

I also believe that the ‘Forgotten One’ & the ‘Wrym’ are the one and same. You might wanna go the route of killing the child when one of the raiders from Emiyria is captured & offers your MC the chance to join them. It lays out basically what will become of King’s End in sequel & the dominant plot of that game (Just a guess from my side)

Now as to the cult itself. I think they believe that that our MC is the Hero of the prophecy who would unite the western peninsula, claim it’s throne & defeat the ‘Wrym’ aka ‘The Forgotten One’ maybe the ‘Triple chalice’. As the cult worships that beast they would naturally try to eliminate the hero who could kill their god.
This is just what I think where the story is headed & the reason for such assassination attempt haven’t been revealed in the story so far. Although it will likely be revealed during the epilogue of game.

Edit: Here’s a reference to something called “The Last Chalice” in a book we buy from travelling merchant.

That said, @mahatmadagon the plot path of awakening the forgotten one ends at the line “You will not make the same mistake”. Is some part of that story is still to be written?