The War for the West (WIP) [UPDATED]

low-fantasy
gender-choice

#2660

@MahatmaDagon I went through the source code and I can’t find a path to marry Jenneth without 60+ social. Or is there another text file with choices for it? I suggest that there should be a way with high Knowledge/Lore to convince Jenneth similar to the MC’s Choice to say:

*selectable_if (lore >= 70) #“There are more possible futures than it can be predicted by prophecy. You are deluding yourselves into thinking you have some degree of control over fate. By selection a small pool of futures and then going to such great lengths to assure that one of them becomes reality, you are preventing countless others from happening, even those who might be better, just because they weren’t predicted.” (Knowledge)

@sljzz I was initially doing my estimates ignoring diminishing returns, but your excellent post convinced me to include diminishing returns.

Regarding how many people the MC's province has and how big or small the MC's army can get:

From what I can tell, the MC’s land has a starting population of:

*create population 136230

and the starting population is then modified depending randomly by both luck and the father’s personality:

*label troopNumbers2
*rand popRandom 1 5

*if popRandom = 1
 *set population (population * 0.9)
 
*if popRandom = 2
 *set population (population * 0.85)

*if popRandom = 3
 *set population (population * 0.8)

*if popRandom = 4
 *set population (population * 1.1)

*if popRandom = 5
 *set population (population * 1.15)

*set population round(population)

*comment the first equation:
*set troops population * 0.01

*if father = 1
 *set unrest + 1
 *set treasury + 2000 

*if father = 2
 *set morale + 2
 *set unrest + 1
 *set population - 3000
 *set troops + 200
 *set treasury + 500 

*if father = 3
 *set morale + 1
 *set population + 500
 *set troops + 50 
 *set treasury + 200 

*if father = 4 
 *set treasury - 250
 *Set unrest - 1
 *set population + 3000
 *set treasury + 50 

*if origin = 1 
 *set population + 1000
 *set treasury + 500

*if origin = 2 
 *set troops + 100 
 *set treasury + 400

*if origin = 3
 *set population - 1000
 *set treasury + 700

*if origin = 4
 *set population - 3000
 *set treasury + 200

and lastly when holding court, event 40 can increase or decrease the population of the MC’s province.

If there are any other text files modifying the province population, @MahatmaDagon can perhaps clarify.

So by my rough calculations rounding to the nearest integer sorted by father type where event 40 is triggered immediately:

*if father = 1
 Your father, [b]Lord ${fatherName}[/b], was known for his way with aurens, managing to spend little and acquire plenty.
*if father = 2
 Your late father, [b]Lord ${fatherName}[/b], was known for his military prowess and ruthlessness.
*if father = 3
 Your late father, [b]Lord ${fatherName}[/b], was known for upholding the law and maintaining order at all costs.
*if father = 4 
 Your late father, [b]Lord ${fatherName}[/b], was known for caring about the well-being of his subjects.
Your mother, [b]Lady ${motherName}[/b], died during childbirth.

Type 1 fathers:
BEST CASE POPULATION: (136230 + 1000) * 1.15 * 1.3 = 205159
WORST CASE POPULATION: (136230 + 1000) * 0.8 * 0.85 = 93316

Type 2 fathers:
BEST CASE POPULATION: 136230 * 1.15 * 1.3 = 203664
WORST CASE POPULATION: 136230 * 0.8 * 0.85 = 92636

Type 3 fathers:
BEST CASE POPULATION: (136230 - 1000) * 1.15 * 1.3 = 202169
WORST CASE POPULATION: (136230 - 1000) * 0.8 * 0.85 = 91956

Type 4 fathers:
BEST CASE POPULATION: (136230 + 3000) * 1.15 * 1.3 = 208149
WORST CASE POPULATION: (136230 + 3000) * 0.8 * 0.85 = 94676

Basically, an unlucky player through no fault of their own can end up with roughly half of the population of a lucky player.

How does that translate into army size? Again by my rough calculations in part because I’m not sure that I have found all of the text files relating to such:

Recruiting cycles happen every 10 days and add a base amount of roughly 0.075% of your population and then a random integer between 2 and 28 each time. Then diminishing returns are applied.

*Set militiaRecruited round(population * 0.0015)
*set militiaRecruited (militiaRecruited / 2)
*rand recruitNumberAdd 2 28 
*set militiaRecruited + recruitNumberAdd
*set militiaRecruited round(militiaRecruited)

@MahatmaDagon Is peasantsRecruiter.txt used for anything?

So an unlucky player can recruit 11 times while a lucky player can recruit 19 times. Best case estimates will assume the player always get a 28 and worst case estimates will always assume a 2. My rough estimates of total possible recruits not counting the recruits you get with the Choice during the Sielcner invasion:

Type 1 fathers:
BEST CASE RECRUITING: (205159 * 0.0015 / 2 + 28) * (10 + 0.4 * 5 + 0.2 * 4) = 2328
WORST CASE RECRUITING: (93316 * 0.0015 / 2 + 2) * (10 + 0.4 * 1) = 749

Type 2 fathers:
BEST CASE RECRUITING: (203664 * 0.0015 / 2 + 28) * (10 + 0.4 * 5 + 0.2 * 4) = 2316
WORST CASE RECRUITING: (104216 * 0.0015 / 2 + 2) * (10 + 0.4 * 1) = 743

Type 3 fathers:
BEST CASE RECRUITING: (202169 * 0.0015 / 2 + 28) * (10 + 0.4 * 5 + 0.2 * 4) = 2299
WORST CASE RECRUITING: (103451 * 0.0015 / 2 + 2) * (10 + 0.4 * 1) = 738

Type 4 fathers:
BEST CASE RECRUITING: (208149 * 0.0015 / 2 + 28) * (10 + 0.4 * 5 + 0.2 * 4) = 2356
WORST CASE RECRUITING: (106511 * 0.0015 / 2 + 2) * (10 + 0.4 * 1) = 759

The final recruiting drive once the Sielcner invasion is on the way adds 1% of the population.

Type 1 fathers:
BEST CASE TOTAL RECRUITING: 2328 + 0.01 * 205159 = 4379
WORST CASE TOTAL RECRUITING: 749 + 0.01 * 93316 = 1682

Type 2 fathers:
BEST CASE TOTAL RECRUITING: 2316 + 0.01 * 203664 = 4353
WORST CASE TOTAL RECRUITING: 743 + 0.01 * 92636 = 1669

Type 3 fathers:
BEST CASE TOTAL RECRUITING: 2299 + 0.01 * 202169 = 4321
WORST CASE TOTAL RECRUITING: 738 + 0.01 * 91956 = 1656

Type 4 fathers:
BEST CASE TOTAL RECRUITING: 2356 + 0.01 * 208149 = 4437
WORST CASE TOTAL RECRUITING: 759 + 0.01 * 94676 = 1706

Starting troops are calculated before event 40 changes the province population and before taking effects of the MC’s father into account for population:

Type 1 fathers:
BEST CASE STARTING TROOPS: 136230 * 1.15 * 0.01 = 1567
WORST CASE STARTING TROOPS: 136230 * 0.8 * 0.01 = 1090

Type 2 fathers:
BEST CASE STARTING TROOPS: 136230 * 1.15 * 0.01 + 200 = 1767
WORST CASE STARTING TROOPS: 136230 * 0.8 * 0.01 + 200 = 1290

Type 3 fathers:
BEST CASE STARTING TROOPS: 136230 * 1.15 * 0.01 + 50 = 1617
WORST CASE STARTING TROOPS: 136230 * 0.8 * 0.01 + 50 = 1140

Type 4 fathers:
BEST CASE STARTING TROOPS: 136230 * 1.15 * 0.01 = 1567
WORST CASE STARTING TROOPS: 136230 * 0.8 * 0.01 = 1090

Estimates for total troops possible ignoring events where you gain or lose a few soldiers are:

Type 1 fathers:
BEST CASE TOTAL TROOPS: 1567 + 4379 = 5946
WORST CASE TOTAL TROOPS: 1090 + 1682 = 2772

Type 2 fathers:
BEST CASE TOTAL TROOPS: 1767 + 4353 = 6120
WORST CASE TOTAL TROOPS: 1290 + 1669 = 2959

Type 3 fathers:
BEST CASE TOTAL TROOPS: 1617 + 4321 = 5938
WORST CASE TOTAL TROOPS: 1140 + 1656 = 2796

Type 4 fathers:
BEST CASE TOTAL TROOPS: 1567 + 4437 = 6004
WORST CASE TOTAL TROOPS: 1090 + 1706 = 2796

Through no fault of the player’s choices, pure bad luck leaves the MC with around 2800 troops (not considering an early Sielcner invasion due to Boglan if I recall correctly), while pure good luck leaves the MC with around 6000 troops (not counting mercenaries) to face Sielcner. So the maximum and minimum size of the MC’s army differ by around a factor of 2 just because of sheer luck.

@MahatmaDagon I realize there is the cheat menu, but you might want to consider offering a Choice of difficulty settings. Normal difficulty could leave things to chance like things are now. Hard difficulty would minimize all population bonuses, all recruiting bonuses, and the time until the Sielcner invasion. Easy difficulty would maximize those things instead.

Here are some things which might be typos.

#“There are more possible futures than it can be predicted by prophecy. You are deluding yourselves into thinking you have some degree of control over fate. By selection a small pool of futures and then going to such great lengths to assure that one of them becomes reality, you are preventing countless others from happening, even those who might be better, just because they weren’t predicted.” (Knowledge)

I do not think that it needs to be there at all but you might want to get a second or third opinion on that one. I think it could be either selection of a or selecting a. I think it should be which instead of who unless it was deliberate to treat futures like people.


#2661

Much more comprehensive. Though this relies heavily on getting event 40 before any recruiting happens, which is probably not going to happen in the vast majority of playthroughs.
(Why is population change determined by random chance anyway? This could be the perfect place to check for unrest.)

In summary, a player with average luck and non-stop recruitment can get ~4500 troops, vs 4500 of Sielcner’s troops, with the mercs falling on either side.

What’s that about an early invasion? I must have missed something there.


#2662

Good idea.

@sljzz If the MC summons all of the MC’s forces to Boglan, this results in Sielcner invading early.


#2663

I can’t seem to fak… I mean marry the spymaster?


#2664

You could spend a night with Janneth in the war tent , she will come visit you after Sielcner army hold your wife hostage, you could ask her to stay… after the war, you could have a choice to continue this intimacy though, i haven’t replay the new update where you can marry her …


#2665

Wow love the ending


#2666

Does it also work even if my MC doesn’t have a wife?


#2667

I am not sure… because i didn’t try :slight_smile:

you could give it a try and see whether Janneth will visit you …


#2668

She must! For the sake of my ${land_name}!

Am I the only one having a error slot?
Edit: never mind that


#2669

It worked for me.
And i think my mc proposed to her at the end.
And they did.
And thats it.

If you want details go read. :upside_down_face:

:fox_face:

Also @MahatmaDagon

Summary

Regarding the profecy. The pale tree of deceit bit. Is it aboit jenneth?

Also what char is your picture. Every time i see it i think of harry poter. For some reason.
Like
“Ah, harrypoter posted something…”


#2670

Thank you! I’ll be testing this stuff today to make sure, but I’m pretty confident you narrowed it down. (and made the job a lot easier for me :heart_eyes:)

Nah, thank YOU for the detailed feedback. It helps a lot to have someone with a sharp grasp on the mechanics. Math and coding were never my strong suit, and people like you, @Norilinde and @castellan are helping me a lot in balancing those elements of the game.

I have to admit that I wouldn’t know the exact numbers/average if you hadn’t pointed them out here.

Makes sense. I was misremembering stuff.

Oh… So the game isn’t making a check for “dullisIsComing” if “warnedDullis” is true?

You’re right, I didn’t notice yesterday that there are several checks of “killedRear” depending on what the player decides to do.

So, I think that what happens is that the player needs to do things in a certain order(and have more than 400 troops left) in order to proceed to the next scene with Noyedas having something between 200~300 less troops.

But if we go to afterRear, then the enemy doesn’t lose any troops.

That was your initial report, right? (Just to make sure I finally got it)

:fearful:

But until that specific point, was there anything you wanted to do as a player that the game didn’t allow you to? Like, just leave the Summit, or perhaps refuse to participate on it?

Because I’m up for giving this kind of choices, I don’t want to railroad stuff unnecessarily.

I found the option:

*if (unopposed) #“You said it yourself. There is no one else to oppose me now.”
*goto jennethKiss

But it is currently only available to the female MC, when you say that you want her to be your Queen.

The other option, for the Male MC, was removed from the .txt along with an exchange where she reveals to be your half-sister. I’m likely to reinsert it eventually.

God damn it, this is amazing. I’m really impressed.

Well, that might be… a bit too much. :sweat:

Any suggestions on how to better balance it?

No, I think it was a “proof of concept” I did in the early days.

I can see that working efficiently, but I was thinking of tackling the particular problem of balancing army sizes by adding a few options that would reduce the size of Noyedas army by the time of the battle. if you discover his intentions beforehand, you could them do some stuff to sabotage him.

Someone(could have been you) had also suggested a difficulty setting that would be associated it with the number of days it would take for the Sielcner Invasion to happen, but I eventually concluded that it might cause some problems. I think the following reasoning applies to both:

  1. If I make a difficulty setting and I just relate it to population and recruitment numbers, it would just make SOME of the game easier, because there would still be many ways to die/lose the game that are unrelated to this.

  2. If I delay the invasion too much(as it sometimes happens already), I can end up giving the player too much “non content” time. Months where nothing happens and the only way to pass time is by skipping it. I don’t think that’s a very fun “mechanic” for the player.

So I think the easier way would be to not have a difficulty setting(I’m not that conceptually inclined to have it and it would be hard to balance all the possible bad outcomes), and just give more ways for the player to diminish Noyedas.

I am, of course, accepting suggestions regarding this as well. I was thinking about things like sabotage, perhaps some military maneuver or preemptive strike… things like:

  • Spreading rumors of heresy about Lord Noyedas/the Warmonk, which would reduce a bit the number of rivermen troops because those who are faithful to the Two might be dissuaded from joining.

  • Sabotaging their water supply/food somehow.

  • Making the alchemical compound kill more of them if you order the alchemists to produce it.

  • The Abyssal Spawn, if let alive, will kill some of their troops(someone suggested it, I don’t think I implemented it yet, but it is in my annotations)

You correct, I changed it to:

“There are more possible paths than what can be predicted by prophecy. You are deluding yourselves into thinking you have some degree of control over fate. By selecting a small pool of futures and then going to such great lengths to assure that one of them becomes reality, you are preventing countless others from happening, even those which might be better, just because they weren’t predicted.” (Knowledge)

Thanks again for all the help!

I was going to put this somewhere else, but I was in need of Hold Court events :grimacing: If the numbers are too wild I can reduce the variance, but I don’t know about considering unrest here. I mean, what would the short term consequences of a low unrest represent here? That there are more peasants because they have a good quality of life? I don’t know if the impact would be meaningful given that the number can vary and it only accounts for a short amount of time(a few months) of your rule. Perhaps I’m missing something.

I think it does, because she comes to visit you about killing Noyedas instead. If it isn’t working like that, I think it should.

It was about the Genderless(they are described as pale, and they have deceived the entire world). But I think I need to change a few things about the prophecy, or at least add some new ones(I had some written but lost them)

It’s a pixelated version of this photo from around six years ago.


#2671

Spymaster didn’t appear in my tent during the backdooring of the Drowning Sword. But I did marry her. So did I do something wrong?


#2672

Jenneth only sneaks in your tent during the last war. You’ll need to side with Noyedas.


#2673

Ah, I see. I thank thee for the info of Jenneth’s Bangability.


#2674

One thing that seems strange to me is that if you go to the summit with your lover, they do not talk about it or take advantage of the trip :smirk::wink: could you add any comments?

You could place traps on the road, a preemptive strike with part of your army and leaving some in case the MC fails or MC leads a group of instigators for lightning attacks, sabotage (with Jannet’s help) or build a small defense (sanjas so that the charges fail and hinder the cavalry) in the open field for when the war begins

I think the MC clarified that this was a bad idea because the disease had no cure and could infect the MC troops or refer to create their own curable compound?

This would not kill our troops too? And to everyone who is in the woods?


#2675

@MahatmaDagon Shouldn’t this say Archpriest?

This should say melee combat.


#2676

Whenever I choose “Hold court,” it always says “Nothing happens today,” every. damn. time.

Is this a bug or is it because of my internet connection?


#2677

It means that you do not have any events left (there are only 40/50)


#2678

Umm, how do I marry Walvanar and that boglan girl?


#2679

Tenés que estar soltero y conocerlas o a su familiar más cercano

Your brother comes to your land and you negotiate with him and talk about his sisters

You meet her at a party and her father offers her so to speak … I think it sounded very bad

And then choose who you marry