The War for the West (WIP) [FINAL UPDATE]

low-fantasy
gender-choice
#2965

Are we able to save Sessanah at the Summit, or will she always die?

#2966

it shouldn’t, but I think it is very difficult for one player to do the EXACT same playthrough because there are many things to take into consideration.

That’s probably more a problem with the balance of the game than the request itself. It’s a concern that has been raised by multiple people, and I STILL have to do some playthroughs myself to see how well it is balanced. I don’t want people to lose the war just because they complied to the king’s request. It shouldn’t define your whole playthrough.

While I still think this is only such a big problem because of the meta-knowledge of having multiple playthroughs, I’m open to ideas.

(Originally I was going to let the player visit him in good terms and even save him from the conspiracy and what not, but I threw that out of the window)

I think the same point applies here. The consequences for your decisions are acknowledged by the game through dialogue, and you only perceive this as “right/wrong” situation AFTER a full playthrough.

Otherwise, there’s the invisible threat of the king opposing you if you try to take Sielccia without his authorization, but there’s also the possibility that a clever player can assume that perhaps the king can’t do much against him given his current situation.

While I do take replayability into consideration(otherwise I wouldn’t spend so much time making different branches and possibilities), I think its more important to focus on the experience people have the first time they play the game.

Ultimately, I “trick” players and use smoke and mirrors to mess with their expectations or surprise them somehow. Once they know how things really work, some people might be disappointed, yes, but at least for a moment there I had them, and hopefully they comprehend that the result makes sense given the context of things. I think people can find fault that path X doesn’t give them Y reward, but they can’t say that things happening the way they are do not make sense inside the dynamics of the world.

So, again, I’m okay with people struggling with the decision of sending aid to the king the first time around or not. Those who send aid and try to conquer Sielccia will find that the king is more acceptive of it than he would be in case they didn’t, and they will like that the game acknowledged that. They won’t know that they could have taken it without that.

People who didn’t send aid will find the king forbidding them of doing so, and then will they have the opportunity to oppose the king. Then they can decide which they think is the better option.

If its someone’s first time playing through these choices and they don’t know where they’ll lead, I think it’s going as planned. it’s making them consider their options with care and it is more or less rewarding bold/assertive playstyles.

You have to take into consideration the context of things. The king is not sending help because he is too busy with the rebellion in his lands. He also is surrounded by people who want to weaken his position and is the victim of a conspiracy to end the Meinstrel line. All of that is hinted in different parts of the game or outright explicitly stated by someone.

Although, given the way information is spread throughout the game and the limited amount you can get each playthrough, I can understand this not being entirely obvious. This is part of the rabbit-hole thing.

The point here is that it should be completetly acceptable that the king does not send you aid.

Again, I’m not against a reward per se, I just didn’t find any that I liked and I thought made sense at the same time.

It’s a fair point, although don’t think you necessarily get the SAME lore because some people will A) not entirely believe what this crazy random guy is saying and B) some will only get two answers from him and not get the full story.

But I agree it would be better to have something extra. I’m still not sure how to deal with those two segments. There have been suggestions of locking the talk with the WW behind a high Knowledge check, or make it only available if you pass through the trials. In a sense, I think this last one would more than pay off for the delivery of the body.

Those examples are actually cool, but I still think the king would keep those for himself.

Thinking about it, the things I don’t like about rewards here are actually quite contradictory.

On one side, it removes the possibility that the request was forged by people from the High Council wanting to undermine your relationship with the king by making an unreasonable request.

On the other side, the king would be rewarding you for doing something that was arguably already expected of you.

But I’m still leaning that it something of the sort can be done, I just don’t know what exactly.

Now, you talk about “adding more land” as a reward, but isn’t that EXACTLY what he is doing when he grants you control over Sielccia? :sweat_smile:

(As for the sister thing, I wouldn’t do something like that because it would add a claim to the Meinstrel bloodline inside your family and this would undermine some important plot points as well as open up too many new possibilities.)

This is a crazy idea that requires lots of specific combinations of choices in order to happen. I love it.

She curses like a sailor and loves like one as well. I don’t think I can say much without spoiling stuff.

I don’t know, I’ve said it sometimes before that I don’t like to keep adding new things to build if I can’t think of a reason as to why those things didn’t exist before. The province didn’t magically pop up out of nowhere when your playthrough started, and I think adding such basic types of buildings pass that feeling.

You can help her sister seize her identity and pretend you saved her. :joy:

6 Likes
#2967

@MahatmaDagon I do think there should be the Choice for the MC to request help from the King. The King still won’t send any help, but it does at least clarify things for the MC’s point of view. Particularly for a MC that answered the King’s initial request, being later refused aid in return would seem a pretty clear breach of the feudal contract and added grounds to annex Sielccia without bothering to consult the King. The fact that Sielcner attacked the MC without worrying about the King would also be a powerful assessment of the King’s ability to intervene.

I also think there was plenty of grounds for certain backgrounds to refuse the initial request anyway. Specifically the background where the MC’s house fought against the “oppressive Sielc” King. It would have been tempting to refuse the demand for aid by the King of Ludland by sending only a history book about the excessive taxes by the last Sielc King.

1 Like
#2968

On everyone dying, I’d be totally okay with this if it was made clear in the sequel that it was the fault of the Triple Chalice and the MC wasn’t to blame (especially if the MC is still alive).

#2970

I think it might partly have been because of the hype before the voting update was uploaded, a lot of people were looking forward to the landsmeet and the possible scenarios? I’m not sure. They do get killed off quite spectacularly like an elegant red wedding scene, but killed by someone we haven’t really gotten much info on who turned out to be the main villain, sort of, which detracted from the experience? :joy::joy: I have no idea.

Anyway, you caught me with my pants down I must say, I’ve cheated for so long I completely forgot I was cheating when I made my last post about the archers and the 40 soldiers killing my best men. :rofl: My apologies for that, I didn’t mean to waste your time.
I did a clean playthrough without cheats just now though and ended up with just above 5000 (3100 archers) soldiers against 800 (from first being under siege until forced to meet on the open field), and they manage to kill all my notable characters like I previously posted about. Much better than 40 mind you!
And about the other army thing, the assessment of your own army numbers, I suppose it is just a matter of conveniency to be honest, a quality of life thing. You are correct that we could just go into the stats page and look at it. I leave that up to you though, it’s not a problem at all.

Governor Bluden doesn’t show up when I leave them the Sielcs alone, and he doesn’t show up if I ravage their lands either… :dizzy_face::neutral_face::thinking:
By the way, does the specifics about how the voting works appear in-game anywhere? I’m just wondering if I am completely blind.

I also completely get your point about Hereya and a tad bit too many variables. Here I’d post a meme gif if I knew how to do it, with Chucky from SoA, “I accept that”, but that technology is a bit beyond me. :older_man:

2 Likes
#2971

On the subject of the King and his request for aid, as well as every political leader prematurely expiring in that fated meeting…I’ll only add this. My sister has only just started playing the game, and this first in-game option gave her cause to pester me for spoilers. Why? Because she enjoys playing things tactically, and correctly reasoned that there were not enough reliable hints to deduce a safe decision from- nothing to guarantee her sorry backside 100% protection against very ominously implied consequences. Will the King be angry? Just how involved will he be in the plot? Lol. I also prefer to make decisions based on context- which is why I get such a kick from crashing and burning; it rarely ever happens.

But it happened this once! I sent troops and gold like the coward I am, then realized the king is only good for sending letters. I spent precious brain processing power on finding out how to convince Dulsen to give up his ambitions on the vacant throne, then realized all the nobles ultimately died like fruitflies in sugary apple cider. Despite having been warned multiple times that the meeting might turn out to be an armed situation(would you like this fine quality armor underneath your noble garments? Which counselor would you like with you? The warrior one or the Cardeed addict?), I trusted there was a point in winning the votes.

And that’s alright- in a game as profusely populated with choices and consequences as this one, the objective is to sort out the true ones from the false using nothing but critical thinking. Some will be immediately obvious (do you really want infect the invading army right outside your gates with disease?), some others will only become so after you’ve received the necessary codex (the King has, difficult as it is to believe, even more problems than you and couldn’t return your 1000 aurens in full even if you married twice).

That the author derives sadistic glee from your failures does not factor into this, I’m sure. (cue Vradnir dying in my fictional arms right before the end of the game)

2 Likes
#2972

While it doesn’t 100% determine whether you’ll lose or not, as a new person who doesn’t understand what they’re getting into, it currently has a high chance of causing you to lose. I’ve never beaten the game fully complying with the request so there’s that as well.

Well from what you are saying and how the game plays, he’s essentially a paper tiger. That said, here’s a few more ideas:

Summary
  • Send a small contingent to find out why you didn’t send the money. This would include 40 soldiers and an emissary that will demand to enter by right of the King. They will state that they demand the money. If you don’t comply, they will effectively act as repo and ransack the kingdom, raising civil unrest. If you deny even that, he will state, a la Palpatine, that you are committing treason and that you will be dealt with. This puts a strain with all other kingdoms and require higher social checks to have a positive relation with them as they are effectively siding against Ludland (figuratively if not literally)

  • Send an announcement throughout the Kingdom that you’re still loyal and are under the King’s protection. This announcement slightly lowers all social checks with other natives to the area and increases the amount of time before Noyedas attacks by 1 week as he’s not sure if the King will actually help defend you and needs a few more days to get the info through his spies.

For me, I was already “in for a penny” in relation with the situation. Very little cleverness lol

And I’m by no means saying you can’t do that. All I’m saying is if you can give that person a lore based reward for going that route, it wouldn’t be terrible. An excellent example is in the Infinity series. All actions have a result while still being lore based for that world. Play a young character and people think you’re too young for the position but you suffer less stat decreases over the trilogy. Play too old and you aren’t laughed at, but by the end of the second book, your ancient and all stat checks are harder. Both have a complex choice that you can’t circumvent. “Do I choose young but die early because my battalion doesn’t listen to me, or choose old and potentially die later because I want physically fast enough to dodge that sword strike?”

If no rewards, then incur a penalty. That’s what I’m saying.
Ex. Earlier I asked if there was a way if I could keep the Abyssal Spawn AND start my own religion. That’s because if there wasn’t, I would have a dilemma. I want to be a badass conqueror with star swords and demon armor… but I also want to be considered the messiah. If you only gave me one, it would put CONSIDERABLE weight on that choice. Since I could choose both though, that weight immediately left since I could effectively have my cake and eat it too.

If I can keep all the gold and all the men and the king “only” tells me he’s mad, that means nothing. Have him spread word to the other kingdoms that I’m stealing and thus try to actively smear my name. That causes a “is it worth it?” question to come.

That is a weak argument. Avelyn stresses that this guy is super amazing and waiting just for you. Plus he’s got “Wizard” in his name. He’s preset to be a good guy lol.

Actually, about that… it only works if you ask “why 3 questions”. If you don’t ask that specific question, you can ask as many as you want. Just fyi

Hm… I REALLY hate that idea… so it’s probably a good one lol. Maybe consider both. Like, the WW speaks an old language that you have a rough understanding of. If you’ve gone through the trials, the genderless accidentally allow you complete understanding while otherwise you need a high knowledge for a basic understanding. Low knowledge and no trials means he speaks unintelligibly and Avelyn is disappointed and doesn’t vote for you since “you’re not the one”

Again, if no reward, incur a penalty for not doing it.

Touche. I guess I meant more expanding your borders as technically him allowing your rule over Seilc is like saying you can eat the deer you killed. Nice, but kinda not really

Tbf, that was why I wanted it. I wanted all the power lol

I live to serve

I am off to test this out

1 Like
#2973

A few questions, one how do you get the abysmal armor and also who are all of the romances? I seem to only be able to unlock one very early on.

1 Like
#2974

@Asdwa Are you sure that you ended up with 3100 archers? 5000 total soldiers sounds quite plausible and leaving the other side with 800 by the time we meet on the open field also sounds plausible. However, we start with at most 353 archers by my estimate, we can only add 200 per month from training militia, we have a 1 in 5 chance of adding at most 28 archers per recruiting drive every 10 days for at most 19 cycles, and then the final recruiting push which could give at most 416 archers again by my estimate. This best case estimate adds up to 353 + 28 * 19 + 416 + 6 * 200 = 2501. So I’m wondering if maybe you had 1300 archers instead or ignored Noyedas at the border for a while maybe?

“I will bring this matter to the Templar Tribune, Lady Larieth. Then we shall see who is right, you or the holy scriptures.”

@MahatmaDagon How do we imprison the Acolyte? I would have been perfectly willing to throw him in prison for disrespect to a ruler in a ruler’s own court.

Here are some typos in the latest version.

She tells you that that Nell - that was his name - was found with his neck split open in the room he rented at a local tavern. Witness say that, while he was always drunk, he never made any enemies, nor had he any large debts that would prone someone to kill him that way.

I think this should be prompt instead or rephrase it as …would make someone prone to kill….

“And I’m not talking about the Temple of the Two, as much as they appear to not be on good terms with your rule currently. No, I’m talking about those who worship something far sinister than the Whole.”

I think this should be far more sinister.

Prince Lodka claims to have been “received in Farhall by Lady Arla”. Was this supposed to be Lady Avellyn?

The Fahlmari are the most mysterious ones. They are attracted by the will for revenge, and they lurk the shadows on the hearts of men.

I think this should be lurk in the shadows unless that is Prince Lodka’s dialect.

There are also the Vrathni, who want nothing more than destruction. Their is the hatred, and it is said that they are spawns of the Great Beast. And then comes the Derathni, of the never ending hunger, and the Xontashi, the ones that bring madness and confusion. Those are all of them, if I remember correctly."

I think this should perhaps be Theirs is… again unless this is Prince Lodka’s dialect.

“The man had to defend themselves, my lady. And…” Vradnir lowers his voice. “The soldiers remember what happened in Emyria. It would be hard for them to hold the desire to hurt one of the attackers.”

I think that should be men.

*label killYou
"If you refuse to kill it... Then it will kill you," the prisoner says, and he seems almost... offended. [i]"Ehne murnwur."[/i]

*page_break

A knife - the kind one could easily find on the kitchens - appears on the child's hands, and he jumps towards you with murderous intent, as if just by hearing those strange words something changed completely inside his mind.

*if (combat >= 25)
 Perhaps normally you could avoid it, but you had been distracted with the words of the prisoner, and you are stabbed in the neck.

 "Good," the mad man says. "The prophecy fulfills itself, one way or another." 
 *goto_Scene youDied

*if (combat > 25)
 You manage to avoid it at the last moment, but the child does not stop there. It keeps trying to reach you with the blade, as if possessed by some evil spirit. All the while, the prisoner just observes, appearing entertained by it.
 *goto entertained

The first inequality is pointing the wrong way. It should be *if (combat <= 25).

And now, after so long, not only had House Sielcner finally rebelled against the crowd, but the person responsible for ending this revolt - with this becoming a major power player in the peninsula - was revealed to descend from House Sielc.

It should be crown.

To the middle of the square room there is a round table circled by ten seats, with an stylized map of the Western Peninsula carved on the wood. You and the others arrange yourselves in front of the areas which represent the likeliness of your provinces.

It should be a.

“That was your second one… You have one left.”

The count is off. I had already asked more than 3 questions when I picked this option only to be told it was my second question.

“The point of all this is clear to me, The Temple of the Two is a corrupt institution, evil at its very core. It must end, yet how can we fight it directly? How could we convince the entire population of Ludland, or even the Western Peninsula, that the thing hey have been worshiping for so long is wrong?”

It should be they.

“Why did you insist on making me surrender, if you wanted to win all along?”

I think it should be wanted me to win.

I tried doing a quick text search to just quote the answer because I know this has been asked before, but I can’t remember what to enter as the search. So I’ll try to answer from memory and I apologize in advance for any details I remember incorrectly.

Female MCs can marry: Dannel, Ullus, Noyedas, Vayden, Jenneth.
Male MCs can marry: Wyneva, Hereya, Petka, Danna, Jenneth.
(Marital happiness mileage may vary.)

Female MCs can additionally have a relationship with: Vradnir, Nada, Kenrir, Lodka.
Male MCs can additionally have a relationship with: Vradnir, Nada, Kenrir.

@MahatmaDagon I suggest considering adding the RO/marriage list to the FAQ in the first post.

I’m going from memory again, but I think it is the following: secure the fallen star, make a sword out of it (probably a good idea to research the material while you’re at it though I’m not sure if that is needed for the armor), hunt something wicked, get the corpse back to your castle safely, give the corpse to the Alchemists. I think eventually you then get the Choice to have armor made out of it.

5 Likes
#2975

Welp, I’m interested. Inspired by the likes of Crusader Kings 2, you say? Please tell me that doesn’t mean I’ll suddenly be doing great, then get dragged into a battle with the literal Anti-Christ (I had a really unlucky game).

#2976

Yes! I ignored him for a little while (I didn’t memorize how long precisely, a few months?), I still had a few game options left to do unless I misremember, visiting the temple, the library and such. Right before I went to the border to sass Noyedas, my healthy army of archers was:

Archers: 2879

So plus the civilian count when under siege -->
Your army now has 283 men at arms, 3193 archers, 303 knights and 945 militia, giving you a total of 4724 troops.

When I cheated I went all out on the recruting, but now I stopped right when the reports came back with a morale and civil unrest taking a dip. So I’m missing out on a 120 something or so militias, which is the number I got when doing it all the way.
I suppose Noyedas was somewhat surprised when my arrows blocked out the sun and killed off 1300 troops in 1 nock, draw and loose. :joy:

2 Likes
#2977

@Norilinde I think you were referring to my post a while back, but I forgot to mention Jenneth. :sweat_smile:

2 Likes
#2978

You did this via seige vs marching out to see him?

#2979

PAINT ?!! in a medieval world? what kind of egregious opulence is this? My father who was a great admirer of the law would not approve

#2980

Is there any opportunity to use your gifts in this game or is that being reserved for the sequel? I know you can use the Sight before the temple trials, but I haven’t found a way to actually defeat them without dying. Also when I just decide to leave my MC and everyone acts like I didn’t just see into the future.

1 Like
#2981

What the Sight gives us is a possibility. After all, the future where you die obviously didn’t happen. Therefore, is it really the future ? That’s the paradox: the fact that you can see the future means you can also change the future.
But I suppose some more exposition wouldn’t be fruitless

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#2982

bug report:
it seems i can still skip days (even months) after receiving Noyedas’ letter without any adverse consequence. I think there should be a consequence somewhere for ignoring his letter just like what happens when you ignore the king’s.

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#2983

I think the rationale can be that Noyedas really needed your assistance. His army didn’t even win against yours( although you could attribute that to plot armor), how does he expect to win against all the other three as well? Or even just Dullis for that matter?

1 Like
#2984

Would be interesting.

#2985

As it stands, you currently are using your gift, though in a more esoteric manner. Your dreams are you subconsciously using your Sight

There is currently no way to survive meeting the Genderless.

They should. Your allies will think you’re a bit crazy but you should still be fully aware of what happened. It may be a bug.

From what I understand that’s exactly what it does, so far as the future is concerned. Meybuk so much as confirms it.

1 Like