The Sword of Rhivenia (Remake) (DEMO UPDATED 27/04)

[Adam_Cay]

@fsix

And no, poisoning people for political ratings or to hold onto power is never “the right thing”.

I don’t think they meant morally, just that politically it is objectively the most beneficial action in that scenario

[Vicky_ThePanda]

@fsix

And no, poisoning people for political ratings or to hold onto power is never “the right thing”. It’s entirely selfish, dick thing to come up with. And it doesn’t matter if you can be persuaded out of it afterwards by people who understand in the first place what morality even is. If you don’t have the sense to just forget such idea when it springs to your head but instead go as far as to seek accomplices, that reflects on your character enough.

Ever played CK? Yeah, i remember getting poisoned by the secret lover of my wife, who i ended up piking after luckily making it out of it

And then poisoning my wife, because she had a secret lover, and while looking for another fiance

Poisoning people is like the go to method for political assassination and sabotage, it might not be nice, but its not like anyone else won’t attempt it, given the opportunity

[fancyparadise]

@Vicky_ThePanda

Ever played CK? Yeah, i remember getting poisoned by the secret lover of my wife, who i ended up piking after luckily making it out of it

And then poisoning my wife, because she had a secret lover, and while looking for another fiance

Poisoning people is like the go to method for political assassination and sabotage, it might not be nice, but its not like anyone else won’t attempt it, given the opportunity

Poisoning is mercy lol

They could get harsher punishment

[fsix]

@Vicky_ThePanda

Ever played CK? Yeah, i remember getting poisoned by the secret lover of my wife, who i ended up piking after luckily making it out of it

Of course, i’ve played CK. And yes, in that game you can also be a full-on selfish dick who murders people for power or other gains. Which only means that such people exist, both in games and in reality. Not that these actions and the people who do them somehow aren’t selfish and immoral.

Like you acknowledge, “it’s not nice”. That’s the point. I remind that this whole tangent started with a justification that killing Richard is supposedly okay because “he’s not 100% innocent”. I only pointed out that’s the case for other characters in the game as well. I’m not sure why some feel like it’s something that even needs a debate and those other “not nice” characters a selective pass.

[Vicky_ThePanda]

@fsix

Like you acknowledge, “it’s not nice”. That’s the point. I remind that this whole tangent started with a justification that killing Richard is supposedly okay because “he’s not 100% innocent”. I only pointed out that’s the case for other characters in the game as well. I’m not sure why some feel like it’s something that even needs a debate and those other “not nice” characters a selective pass

I get it, i personally don’t apply modern day morality when playing a medieval story

I’m pretty much Role playing, so in context of that time period, anything which is considered immoral today, can be considered justified during that time period

A youngest heir of a kingdom, becoming the ruler against the odds, willing to sabotage, and kill the opposition, to ensure their own succession and support from the people, is very much something that probably happened during those times

Especially with family dramas like being the child of the unfavored wife of the king, and the opposition in question being the son of the favoured wife, for whom, the father neglected them

Such small grievances are all you need in that time period to be vengeful, even if you have bias for your own side of the family

It was a hypocritical time, i don’t like playing as the moral paragon in that sense, personally, because it feels too idealistic for my drama craving brain

[Stevenwertyuiooo]

@fsix

Then, using this exact argument, at no point there’s any mention of Atheris having such backers and people putting such idea in her head. Heck, no one is calling for her to become the queen instead of MC (and instead of Richard) if you actually go along with her plan to poison the supplies. That’s how non-existent her support in the population of Rhivenia is.

Because they are scared of her ( and her mother ) . If you were in the imperial Court, who would you rather be friends with, the son of King’s favourite wife, or the daughter of the Queen that was a confirmed poisoner. A daughter that is named after a snake and is trained by Locke, a general that everyone is terrified of. Even if they have the exact same chances, approaching the people pleaser, Richard, is a safer bet.

Take also note that ( as far as I remember ) we never actually see Richard being called a future king either, only he claimed that everyone made him believe that it is his destiny. As far as we are concerned, both he and Atheris have lots of followers that we never see or they are always alone.

Why would anyone ask for her to become Queen when it is almost guaranteed that MC and Atheris have the same supporters?

Apart from Atheris, when told that Charles believes the MC is the worthy one, no one ever said that she didn’t have any chance, everyone believed it was Richard vs Atheris, they each chose who they preferred, yet it was stil obvious that both had same chances.

In the previous game, Atheris and Richard both could be selected, in the game two demo Atheris even prove herself a better choice when she only killed the person bad mouthing her while Richard killed everyone around.

@fsix

If you don’t poison the supplies then you have some opponents to your rule. This is a minor political struggle, and one that doesn’t even change one bit your popularity meter. That’s how small it is.

Tell it to the stone that hit the MC head. Even if it not a scar, it stil shows that Richard has supporters fanatic enough to lay hands against the King.

@fsix

And no, poisoning people for political ratings or to hold onto power is never “the right thing”. It’s entirely selfish, dick thing to come up with. And it doesn’t matter if you can be persuaded out of it afterwards by people who understand in the first place what morality even is. If you don’t have the sense to just forget such idea when it springs to your head but instead go as far as to seek accomplices, that reflects on your character enough.

Morally? No, it isn’t the right thing to do.

But when you are after the throne and the other side wants to take an unfair advantage, it was a brilliant idea.

Richard made his own selfish move by sending food on his name to the people ( I love how in the update it was addressed that the people are well fed lmao ) to gain personal followers. How easily Atheris drops the idea if the MC doesn’t approve ( not trying to persuade her against the idea ) speaks more about her character.

[DBokkon]

@Vicky_ThePanda

Such small grievances are all you need in that time period to be vengeful, even if you have bias for your own side of the family

It was a hypocritical time, i don’t like playing as the moral paragon in that sense, personally, because it feels too idealistic for my drama craving brain

For me I also love drama but the fact the medieval era and this world are so harsh only pushes me further to subvert all the characters expectations and be better to my potential rivals/family. I’m not killing Richard in fact I’m gonna make him and everyone else realize they’re still a family who should care for each other even if I have to beat the idea into their heads

I’m putting this family back together whether they like it or not and it starts by ending the post-death justifications by them of Charles. I need to lead by example and show everyone he was both a bad dad AND a bad king

I know it sounds like some power of friendship bullshit but I cannot think of a bigger fuck you to Charles other than showing everyone that almost every “hard and pragmatic” decision he ever made was in fact barely disguised paranoid cruelty(not that I wouldn’t totally go to war and poison people too if it came down to it)

[Dragonlord943]

@DBokkon

I’m not killing Richard in fact I’m gonna make him and everyone else realize they’re still a family who should care for each other even if I have to beat the idea into their heads

I’m putting this family back together whether they like it or not and it starts by ending the post-death justifications by them of Charles. I need to lead by example and show everyone he was both a bad dad AND a bad king

pulls out gun “Say Charles was a terrible person, apologize to each other, and hug it out.”

I doubt that all their problems will ever be resolved, that being said, I will lie, cheat, and kill to see them all make it through this fiasco alive, because none of them are going to do it at this rate. It’s either that or I kill them all for their stupidity, but I’ll save my unyielding rage for my enemies, and for Charlie Brown when I go down to meet him.

[fancyparadise]

I only didn’t killed richard cause it looks stupid to do when it looks clear that it’s mc who does that. Pretty amateur way to kill someone.

And Richard hasn’t done anything enough to get killed yet. There is no benefit of killing him and taking everything on yourself. I poisoned people so there is almost no way for him to rebel either.

[fsix]

@Vicky_ThePanda

I’m pretty much Role playing, so in context of that time period, anything which is considered immoral today, can be considered justified during that time period

A youngest heir of a kingdom, becoming the ruler against the odds, willing to sabotage, and kill the opposition, to ensure their own succession and support from the people, is very much something that probably happened during those times

I think it’s fair, but with a caveat that even in “that time period” this sort of things was considered immoral and not really justified. It’s not a matter of modern morality, but the basics of cornerstone of medieval morality – the Christian faith which was, if anything, observed far more strictly than it tends to be nowadays.

People on the top of the power ladder who got there through murder might’ve avoided responsibility for their immoral acts due to no one being in position to impose any actual punishment, but those acts were seen and judged as such, not accepted as “justified”. Poisoners and murderers would be viewed as such, and carry the associated stigma. Especially if it involved kinslaying.

[R1220]

A late realization. If MC hadn’t figured that out, I never would have.

Well I still like it… Thanks, Matteo.

[Vicky_ThePanda]

@fsix

People on the top of the power ladder who got there through murder might’ve avoided responsibility for their immoral acts due to no one being in position to impose any actual punishment, but those acts were seen and judged as such, not accepted as “justified”. Poisoners and murderers would be viewed as such, and carry the associated stigma. Especially if it involved kinslaying

If they knew about it that is, they just think Richard died bravely protecting the king

[jjc73]

Its a lot of slaying going on

I didnt catch this update. I will need to it seems.

[dkurage]

It is kind of funny though how many characters go on about Richard being this huge threat that has got to go, only for the story to smash cut to Richard entering his 17th hour of depressingly staring at a wall while stewing in the same clothes he’s worn for four days straight. Bro’s about 5 seconds away from apathying himself into starvation, and I’m supposed to believe he’s an imminent threat like MC’s relatives claim?

[Dragonlord943]

I agree, but it is worth considering:

1. Apathy and depression leads to the belief that you have nothing to lose; it’s not impossible to imagine Richard would stage a coup out of sheer spite or in some last ditch attempt to make himself feel better.
2. Depending on several factors, some people might want him to take the throne anyways simply because they like him more than you; it’s unlikely, but Richard could get dragged into a coup he had no hand in simply because of the people.

[meirin]

He’s a threat because either the support he got from the common people (if you didn’t sabotage) goes over his head in his attempt to prove his worth or someone else could use him to weaken our kingdom.
Adult Richard hasn’t shown to be trustworthy yet.

[fsix]

@Dragonlord943

Apathy and depression leads to the belief that you have nothing to lose; it’s not impossible to imagine Richard would stage a coup out of sheer spite or in some last ditch attempt to make himself feel better.

That’s not really how apathy or depression works. It doesn’t make you think you have nothing to lose. It makes you think you have nothing to live for (so it’d be best if you just… stopped living) That’s why Richard openly welcomes the idea of getting killed and doesn’t oppose it in the slightest, but even asks for it, when confronted in the last chapter. It’s a relief because it means his suffering will finally end.

Staging a coup is way too much active effort for someone who’s depressed to the point they can’t even bring themselves to get out of bed.

[BadgerHero]

Her?

[fancyparadise]

@Dragonlord943

it’s not impossible to imagine Richard would stage a coup out of sheer spite

You need people and support to stage a coup

With this mental situation he ain’t getting that and MC’s intelligence system must be shit to not to notice that

He might have chance if you don’t poison people though and mc must be completely incompetent for that

[dkurage]

Exactly, full on depression mode Richard isn’t staging anything. From his perspective what would even be the point? If he’s been a failure at everything else, why would this be any different.