I love the change that most of the story is going to be in the house! It seemed like it should be such a central point in the first portion of the original game, but then you leave and just…it kind of never came up as a plot point again until the end. I can’t wait to see what you do with it!
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@Creampuff Glad you think so! And no worries; while I’m mostly active on my Patreon and Tumblr, I’ll make sure to include writing updates etc. and stuff that might be important here as well 
@AnneWest Haha yeah, it’s been a long time since I wrote the original and can’t remember my exact thought process, but I’m pretty sure I thought it’d be too boring just to stay in one place and tried to add some action ASAP. This time around I’ve thought about all the stories I personally love, and I don’t enjoy them because they’re action-packed or because stuff happens all the time, but because they make me curious/interested/affect me emotionally in some way. So yeah, I’m definitely not going to rush the reader along just for the sake of it in the remake!
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Alright I got busy so it took me a bit to get all my feedback together, but here it is.
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Seeing as there’s the option to play as a nonbinary character, I’m going to assume it wasn’t your intention to exclude the possibility of the MC being trans and just kind of leave it unspecified, like a lot of IFs do. In which case, there’s one moment so far that falls into the category of, “probably not written to purposefully exclude the possibility of a trans MC, but certainly not written with the possibility of a trans MC in mind.” that being the line,
“[Name]. The first gift your parents had given you; your identity as you had come to know it. The only constant in your life since you first came into the world.” -
I’ll over this more with specific options, but in general, I felt like I would’ve liked to see the MC be able to be a bit more confused/panicked about the whole situation, as well as maybe a bit more nervous in general.
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When the MC gets to the mansion, it felt kinda weird how little they seem to care about the weird call from their mom. Like the get there see M and start having a chat about supernatural stuff, and the MC’s mom only gets mentioned once where it’s like, “Oh, btw have you seen my mom.” “No.” “Okay, anyway…” It feels like more of an afterthought than like, the whole reason the MC rushed over there in the first place.
Like if I were in the MC’s situation I think at the very least I’d want to like, establish whether my mom was there or not, before getting into an unrelated conversation with M. -
I feel like the choice where it’s like which eyes you focus on, and by extension which character you meet first, could give the player a bit more info to go on.
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Similarly, while I appreciate the change to make the gender of each RO individually selectable, I think in practice, most of the actual choices rely too much on having read the full character bios outside the game. Like assuming the answer isn’t just “all guys” or “all girls” I feel like you need some amount of description of the RO before the choice, and like for some of the options, the only information you really get is like, “Is blonde” or “Is wearing a hood.”
I also have some smaller, more subjective “Here’s an option I personally would’ve liked to have had.” type stuff. Some of them are probably gonna be too me specific or going against some element of the MC you want to be static, or something else, so completely understandable if you don’t act on them.
Summary
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I felt like the followup for the first option for this choice kinda made some unnecessary assumptions about the MC. Like it assumes the MC is the type of person who would go into a career on a whim, including going to school for it. Since it’s later mentioned that Vince helped get the MC their job, maybe it could be more of "this isn’t at all the career you would’ve picked for yourself, but you were in desperate need of the job and you had a foot in the door thanks to Vince.
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For this option, I would’ve liked a more like nervous/awkward way of doing both options.
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Here I would’ve liked an option for like not wanting the help/kindness I guess. Like I feel like that would’ve been my MC’s problem over not wanting to dance around the issue.
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Some option like, “You didn’t mind the solitude, but still missed them from time to time.”
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For this choice, it felt like the options fell roughly into “Used to be social, now isn’t.”, “Used to not be social, now is.”, and “used to be social, still is.” Which then feels like it’s missing the fourth option of “Used to not be social, still isn’t.”
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For this one, I felt the option to not say anything was very confrontational, and I was wanting/expecting something more like confused/startled.
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I feel like there could be like a crush specific option for this one to like be all flustered about it.
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Okay this one is maybe a bit specific, but like the nervous response reads to me at least as more, “believes it might be witches/demons and is trying to deny it to seem less nervous.” and I feel my MC would be more, “doesn’t believe its those things, but now that M has planted that idea, can’t fully shake it.” Also, and this definitely getting hyper specific to me so feel free to ignore, but like I’m not a huge fan of the like lip licking as part of the nervous option. It’s just kinda something I can’t really visualize in a way that doesn’t feel kinda weird.
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I have two for this one. First like a deflective option, i.e. saying they’re fine, when they are not in fact fine. Second, again maybe a crush specific option to get flustered over M showing concern for them.
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I feel like the middle option, again, kinda makes some assumptions about the MC, this time ones that might run directly contradictory to previous choices. Like if MY MC just said they didn’t believe in demons or witches, why would they immediately jump to that?
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For this option I’m a little disappointed there’s nothing in the followup for if the MC has a crush on M.
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I’m having trouble putting an adjective to how the tone of the refusal option here feels but like I do know it doesn’t feel like the MC being nervous/wary about giving their name to this stranger, which is the option I’d want.
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For this one, I wish there was like a more panicked/scared version of asking where M is. Cause I feel like my MC would be less like thinking they did something and more just going, “Oh shit, M is missing, where are they?”
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This one again might be hyper me specific, but like while the “nod awkwardly” option was close, I felt like the option I would’ve wanted would be more like, “freeze up, unsure how to react.” Like ya know when something happens and you just kinda freeze there waiting for your brain to catch up and process what happened.
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For this one, I guess I would’ve liked something similar to the last option without the bit about R’s face. Like quickly averting her gaze would definitely be my MC’s reaction but it would definitely be more of a nervous/socially awkward type deal.
I also found like one singular bug, maybe. It looks like there’s some text missing here. Though from context it looks like it might be intentionally cut off, in which case, it could be made clearer that it’s the character getting cut off and not the game failing to display the text.
But yeah, that’s what I got for feedback, let me know if you need me to clarify/expand on anything.
6 Likes
Thank you so much for the thorough feedback, shadowfire! I’ve been looking forward to reading it.
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You’re very right about this point. That wasn’t my intention at all, but I definitely see how wording it like someone keeping the name they were given at birth ends up excluding trans people and other people as well. I wanted to keep a somewhat distant tone with those few lines, like you still haven’t recalled who you are and that a name isn’t quite enough for you to remember and that it still doesn’t feel completely right, even though it’s usually very closely tied to one’s identity. Not sure if that came across; regardless, I have mainly been focusing on improving/editing chapter 1 and ended up completely overlooking that part. For that I’m really sorry, and I’m going to rework and reword it; thank you for pointing it out.
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One of the things I myself dislike a bit about the original is that when the MC got the option to react strongly with panic or anxiety, I often ended up making it sound a bit over the top (at least imo), but this is something I’ve thought about myself, to be honest - that I want to include more panicked/stressed/anxious reactions. It would only make sense to do so during this part of the story, so I’ll look into that!
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Hmm, yeah, I understand what you mean. When I first wrote this, I found myself in the middle of “I want to include the MC’s family more, but I don’t want to default it to them having a positive relationship with them”. At the same time, you don’t get the chance to know your mom at this point in the story, so I wasn’t sure it’d make sense to set your relationship with her and ended up not putting too much emphasis on her as a result. But leaving it vague during such a crucial point is probably not the best idea, either. I’ll think on how to implement a decision about your relationship with her so that it can be included more at this point of the story.
For both point 4 and 5; The eyes part I’ll probably leave largely as it is, but I might include a short description of what impression they give before you make the choice instead of afterwards. Same for point 5. In the original, the characters genders were set based on whoever/whatever you’re attracted to, which is something I really didn’t like in hindsight. But I could include some more of each physical description as you make that choice instead of afterwards since, as you mentioned, one short sentence isn’t a lot to go on 
And oh, that’s definitely a bug! Or rather a line I forgot to expand on. I’ve looked at your more subjective points too, and while some things are they way they are for a reason in the demo, I think you’ve highlighted various things that could help make chapter 1 more immersive and is going to improve it overall. I’m currently in the process of writing chapter 2, but I’ve been updating the demo here and there with additons and fixes etc. in the meantime and now I have a lot of really good notes to use both to expand upon in the demo and to keep in mind for future chapters.
Thank you again for taking the time to do this 
I really appreciate it!
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No worries it happens. I did pick up on what you were saying, tbh I kinda felt a little bit bad pointing it out cause it is a really good line.
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Maybe you could fold that into the option when you get the call from her. Like have an option or two like, “You don’t have the best relationship with your mother, so you let it ring, if its important she’ll leave a voicemail.” or “You and your mother dont have the best relationship so she wouldn’t call if it wasn’t important, you answer the call.”
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I took the response to the phone call to be indicative of the relationship. If you answer right off, you’re probably in a good relationship; if you answer reluctantly, it’s probably “complicated”; and if you just dismiss the call your relationship with her is probably pretty bad. Maybe you can use that bit that’s already there as your jumping off point for this?
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I think I may be in the minority here, but i really like it when physical descriptions are limited. We are all attracted to different things, so I like to let my imagination pick what the ro’s look like based moreso on their personalities rather than a really descriptive descriptions..(I dont look at face claims…I reserve the right as the reader to imagine Pedro Pascal in any RO role I please, whether or not it fits the physical description 
)
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@shadowfire101 Please don’t feel bad about it, it’s a necessary change. And I think your and @AnneWest suggestion to use the phone scene to determine your relationship is a great idea! It means setting your relationship before you have much information about your mother, but I could always include a more detailed description of her in the relationships page. And to be fair, I already let you set your past relationship with another character with no real info regarding their personality; I might change that at a later date if I find a smooth way of incorporating it.
Thank you both
@Jender Haha I’m not sure whether you’re in the minority or not, but personally I think that it’s important to include descriptions because, as a writer, I’m trying to convey through text what you, as the reader/MC sees and experiences. Some people have more of a need for detailed descriptions while others enjoy letting their own imagination do most of the work. But as the one telling the story, I feel like it is my responsibility to let people know what they are “seeing”; how detailed those descriptions are ofc depends on the writer and the work in question, though.
There are already descriptions included for each RO as it is, too - they are just a page after you choose the characters gender. The only change that shadowfire’s suggestion would bring about is that some of that text is included when you choose the gender rather than afterwards
As for the eye-scene, the way I’m considering changing it is that it says ex. “You’re drawn to the hostile fiery eyes/the calm green eyes/the cold blue eyes” etc. but a little more descriptive than that, probably. Different people are drawn to different traits, so I think it would make sense to include a hint of what sort of character hides behind the eyes rather than just “you’re drawn to the blue eyes/the green eyes” the way it is now.
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Ooh I really like the eye idea. I’m still so happy to see this IF active again (:
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Hahaha oh I totally get it, and I don’t mind physical descriptions…but I only really pay attention to em when I beta 
when I am reading my own route, I disregard them and stick my celeb crushes in where they make sense. 
and I totally understand those who need the descriptions to help visualize I’m def not knocking anyone’s preferred way of reading or writing. If everyone did everything the same way all.of the time…life would be so boring!
And I LOVE the idea of giving an adjectives to the eyes! Totally makes sense and would add to which you’d like to choose in the beginning! Great ideas all around!
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No worrys, tbh that was mostly just a hyperbolic way of saying it was still a nicely written line.
Also since it seems to have sparked some conversation, I just want to clarify myself just in case. With regards to not having a lot of info to go on when deciding the ROs’ genders, I wasn’t just talking about physical description, I just used examples of physical descriptions cause that’s all the info you get in those case.
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Hello @carawen
I prefer descriptions. Detaild description. I’am blind so I love description. More description and more detail is better and important to me.
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@LeannaMandragoran Don’t worry, I’m not going to add less detailed descriptions! The discussion just took a turn in that direction and I wanted to share my own thoughts, plus I find it interesting seeing how different readers experience the game/interactive fiction games in general. If anything there are certain character descriptions I want to make MORE detailed
That aside, here’s a bit of a writing update!
Writing Update
A week ago, I made a poll on my Tumblr asking people’s opinion about the potential inclusion of adult themes and NSFW content in the rewrite of “The Shadow Society”, which is a bit of a shift from the original. 94.5% of those who voted said YES to this change. It makes me really happy since it’s a change I wanted, myself. I’ll of course add content warnings in the game about whatever I end up including.
I’ve gotten some great feedback from a few people both here and on Tumblr regarding chapter 1 that I really want to work on further - so I’m going to spend some doing that while simultaneously working on chapter 2. The demo will be temporarily privated while I work on it since I want to avoid breaking people’s saves. I don’t know whether it’ll be inaccessible for a few days, a week or a month; it all depends on how much progress I make and whether I potentially want to include the start of chapter 2 when I make it public again.
Another point is that, by IF standards, the demo is incredibly short atm. I think it might benefit from being “re-released” when it’s longer, although that would take some time. I’m unsure how I’ll approach it, but I’ll make sure to let you know once I’ve decided!
The new chapter (chapter 2) is around 14k word excluding code at the moment. It’s still very much at its beginning, and though I can’t say how long the chapter is going to be when it’s done, I’m not even halfway through yet. Even so I’ve decided that, once I get to 20k words, I’ll edit what I’ve got and release what’s available as a playable early access sneak peek sort of thing on my Patreon for the ‘rebel’ tier members.
I hope to have the entire unedited version of the chapter done in a month and that I can release the full, edited version of it on my Patreon in June. It’s an optimistic estimate, but I like setting deadlines for myself since it helps me stay on track and focus better
I hope that all makes sense!
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Hello @Carawen
Thanks for answering. İt’s very good news. More description specially detaild descriptions are all way better:smiling_face:
. All so thanks for writing and progress update. Keeping us informed is nice and apreciated much.
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