The Lawless Ones (Previously "Villains") Completed! (Beta Closed)



Please don’t! Let us play this game!


This is really great read :heart::heart::heart:


Omg prompto (2929202020)


This game is so much fun!


I completely agree!!


Me too! I love the wolf origin so much I always choose it when playing the demo :smiley:


Say hello to coloured Swift. :grin:


Awesome art. Btw, you might consider submitting TLO now and then doing any edits while it’s in the publishing queue.


That is a good point. Right now I’m considering my options, and I can’t seem to make up my mind any which way.

Option 1: I’ve been informed by CoG that it is still possible to submit the game to the CoG label, but in order to do so, I would have to make several substantial edits which would pretty much involve restructuring the entire game. Originally, I was really hoping to have the game published under the CoG label, but right now, I’m not sure that this game could actually work as a CoG title. There’s a very specific formula I’d have to follow, and also a lot of content I wouldn’t be able to include in the game, so I’d have to make a lot of edits to plot, story and characters, so that they were all a lot more CoG friendly… Also, I’m not sure that having the game published as a CoG title will actually benefit me any more than publishing it under the HG title. Looking at a lot of recent CoG and HG games, HG actually seems to be doing slightly better than CoG in terms of downloads and ratings (at least on the app store), so, in terms of how many people would actually play the game, I don’t think publishing the game as a CoG title would actually make much of a difference.

Option 2: I could submit the game to HG as it is right now… Obviously this would mean very minimal effort on my part, and the game would be released relatively soon.

Option 3: I could make some edits to the game and still submit the game to HG rather than CoG… Despite this probably being the worst of the options on paper, this is actually the option I’m leaning towards right now. While I am very proud of TLO, I do feel that it was very rushed, particularly towards the end, and I think there’s a lot I could do to improve it. I could add more story, more characters, more relationship dynamics… Potentially, the game could end up twice as long as it is right now. Of course there are two big downsides to this option. 1. It would take a long time to edit the game until I was happy with it. 2. It would mean I was working on two titles at the same time. The Lawless Ones, and The Price of Freedom: Brothers in Arms… And working on two games at the same time would mean that both games will take considerably longer to write.

… So… Yeah… Three options to think very hard about and I’m really not sure which one to go with. :thinking:


Well, I think part of that has to do with some of the recent HG titles just being massive best sellers. But I think if you were deciding whether to publish your game on the CoG label or the HG one, it would probably help to get it published on the official one. That would mean a substantial cash advance, plus more advertising and free editing.

If you feel like you should go with option 3, that should be fine. These stories take forever to make anyways, so what’s another million years? T.T :slight_smile:


I do think TLO (it’ll always be Villains in my mind though) does have more of a story to tell then what was written under previous time constraints. That said the last version I saw was also perfectly fine. Obviously the only option I really dislike is #1 as it seems those edits would not benefit the story any.


Drunk rant: RELEASE IT NOW!!!


Personally …i think perhaps you can consider whether the contents which you need to exclude and edits you require to make are what make fans loves your story in the first place , and you also need to consider whether fans from this forum represent the larger audience out there …

We don’t know what is the exact contents that you need to edit… but i think your original works is quite appealing to many fans here, but like i mention …it is no guarantee that those of us here represent the majority of audience outside :slight_smile: there is always pros and cons for every decision , but option 3 seems very intriguing if you are talking about further improving the potential ending … like we are given more story on how to deal with the monarch , whether help or against the monarch …as well as more interaction time with the love interest about life after marriage :smile:


i have no F**king idea.


That is a very good point. In order to submit the game to CoG, there are a lot of edits I would have to make that I worry would make the game less… You know… Lawless Onesy. :yum:

One huge thing that I’d have to change is that the protagonist can’t die until the end of the game… Which leads to a lot of complications. CoG games generally seem to remedy this with a structure of reward regardless of success/failure, which I think would be really difficult to implement. Basically, if you try to perform a task, the result is the same regardless of whether you succeed or fail. For example:

There is a large stone in the middle of the road, blocking your wagon. You try to move it. If you have a high strength stat, you successfully lift the stone and move it out of the way. If you have a low strength stat, you try to lift the stone and fail. Luckily, your friend offers to help you. Together, the two of you lift the stone and move it out of the way… So, despite failing, the result is still the same.

One thing I’ve been specifically asked to change is the part where, in the origin stories, the protagonist is given the option of helping someone, and in exchange they’re given 50 gears. But I’ve been advised that there should be some kind of reward, even if the player fails at helping. I feel very reluctant to give the game a structure like this, because it feels like… What’s the point? What’s the point in helping if you still get the reward when you don’t help? And what’s the point of having stats if the result is the same regardless of whether the stat is high or low?

Another massive thing that I would have to change is that I’d have to get rid of the Hero/Villain stat because it too closely resembles a Good/Evil stat, which are not allowed in CoG games. Of course, this would make things very difficult, since the ending of the game is completely dependent on the Hero/Villain stat, so getting rid of it would mean I’d have to come up with a completely different way to determine what ending the protagonist gets.


Oh…i think i understand your dilemma now , that is really a very difficult implementation with respect to your original vision :slight_smile:

I agree with your point and the concern , if these are the rules… then you need to think very hard about it , well since i was involved in your beta testing, i believe you need to make lots of adjustment there :smile:

Wish you the best in your decision , whatever decision you make we will still be supporting you and your game …


In my oh so humble and non author-y opinion… any time an author has to make edits that change things substantially in such a way that the flow or idea of the writing changes or controversial bits are removed, it’s never really sat well with me.

That being said, whichever option lets you stick to your true vision is the best option.

Now my humble non author-y opinions and I are going to go this way… and hide.


Hey there,

I totally understand the difficulty of making a decision in the spot you are in right now. A few years ago, when I submitted CCH1 to Hosted Games, I was given an opportunity to convert it into a CoG. I was flattered and started down the process, but I realized after 2-3 months just how much work and re-balancing was going to be needed to take it down that path.

Ultimately, I thanked them for the opportunity, but decided to just submit as a HG.

I think trying to “convert” a finished game to a CoG-style game after the game is finished is probably MUCH harder than working with a CoG editor on a CoG project from the start. As you state, there are many CoG house rules that must be considered, and those can really affect the entire structure of the project.

With such a glut of games already in the HG queue though, I might be tempted to take some time with edits you feel will strengthen the game, and that you would have made without the time deadline.

Always feel free to PM if you want to discuss any of this further.


i see how all those changes will make it hard for you (and is a pain to have to rewrite something you have already finished xD), but also can make a huge difference when it comes to sales, cog is more “easy sell” than hog i think, i did read this game not too long ago and was quite pleased with how good it is (i find it more appealing to me than the Price of freedom ), no wonder it will make an amazing reléase for cog label.

i think Eric_Moser did give you a nice advice .


Not necessarily. I used to think that, but looking at the ten most recent CoG and HG titles, the CoG titles seem to have an average of 5,000 downloads each on Google Play, whereas the most recent HG titles seem the have an average closer to 10,000 downloads each.

Granted, when a HG game flops, it flops much harder. (The Dryad’s Riddle only has 1,000 downloads :cry:) But given all the positive attention that Lawless Ones has received, I think it’s unlikely that it will do poorly, regardless of which title it’s published under. :blush: