The Dragoon Saga (Sabres of Infinity, Guns of Infinity, Lords of Infinity) - General Discussion



Briefly: Several strategically insignificant single ship actions where the US did well on the whole, a couple freshwater American wins (Lake Eire and Lake Champlain), and overall a pointed lesson to the US that privateers are no substitute for an actual navy.

Describing why we got there would wind up as anywhere from “highly critical” to “I’m not saying Jefferson and Madison were actually traitors specifically trying to undermine the military strength of the US to assist foreign powers. But they were definitely specifically trying to undermine it.”

I know they had their reasons for what they did, but everyone has a reason for their actions.


To add: the US Navy holds the highest honour for the heroes of the War of 1812, possibly even more than WWII. The Navy flag and coat of arms features the USS Constitution, and the USS Constitution herself still remains a commissioned warship in the US Navy. All sailors’ Battle Dress uniforms also feature a picture of the USS constitution woven into the uniform. The Naval Academy also has the famous “don’t give up the ship” flag of the USS Chesepeake hung prominently in the middle of Bancroft Hall (the main building), and I think there is also a statue of Oliver Hazard Perry. This is possibly because the US Navy first proved itself a capable force during the War of 1812.


It certainly did not lack for gallantry or, at its best, actual ability to win fights.

Not to slight Captain Lawrence. If gallantry is worth saluting, he certainly counts as a great example.

But “My flagship just got shot up? Better row over to its sister ship and fight on from there.” is not a bad standard to try to live up to as far as winning and being brave.


For a plucky little third-rate fleet doing the best it can with a few very well-designed ships, a few brave officers, and a federal government actively trying to sabotage it, the USN did very well during the War of 1812, but that by no means meant that it won.

Interestingly enough, the same could probably be said for the Canadian Militia that we north of the border are so fond of.


“Remember, a military strong enough to protect your liberties is one strong enough to threaten them.” is not necessarily a bad thing to keep in mind in the sense that government is Not Necessarily Good, but…man, the ideology looks terribly unrealistic even in its own day.

Add that to the ideas that governments spending money is terrible and that Real Frontiersmen can beat regulars anyway and wow.

The cynical thought that the proponents of this ideology may very well have resented standing military forces for undermining the idea that gentleman (not necessarily full blown bluebloods, but certainly Refined Individuals instead of mechanics and tradesmen) amateurs were not invariably superior to professionals comes to mind, to be quite honest.

Farmers are easy to idealize for (pseudo)aristocrats, but I’ve never heard of any that glorified the Noble Clerk with His Ink Stained Hands And Carefully Organized Paperwork.


Is Ewen Wulfram an actual pacifist or does he just not like fighting?


Translation to Tierran: “Is Wulfram a ninny?”

The answer is “He damn well bloody is!”.


Is it possible to win the Second Battle of Kharingia without having any of your personal acquaintances (Lanzarel, Marion, Hartigan, Lewes, ect) dying?



I had been watching the tv series viking , and somehow found some resemblance of King Miguel to King Alfred of the Wessex kingdom( old England ) , referring to actual history as well … King Alfred inherit a kingdom that was in chaos and facing invasion of the Viking tribes, King Alfred was not a warrior King , and face internal politic struggling but thrive on his wisdom and strategic bargaining …
King Miguel inherit a kingdom facing invasion from Antari League at an age younger than Alfred, and rely on his wisdom to prevail the Terrain Kingdom as well , but i suppose Terrain was in a much stronger military state than the Wessex , but also facing potential internal strife as well … it will be interesting to see whether Miguel could be as lengendary as Alfred in the end…

And speaking of losing valuable ally in a battle , the lost of Bishop Headmund was the saddest of course … and while Miguel had Katarina and Elly on his side, both of them weren’t involved in actual battle as Lagertha :slight_smile:


No, to our knowledge he just believes this particular fight was not one that Tierra could win (or if they do win, it won’t be worth the cost.)


He has a crippling moral compass that prevents him from sitting by and doing nothing while the baneless masses are about to riot.


Which character(s) that most of the fanbase like can you not stand? I’ll start.

  • Fuck Marras for suggesting that idiotic charge to GRAB DAT GLORY, and fuck Cunaris for going along with it.

  • Also, fuck Hunter for his careless throwing away of Second Battalion, Grenadiers(Cataphrak posted that measures as drastic as that were not needed on the megathread.)

Also, on an unrelated note, is Havoc Matheson a reference to Mattis and his nickname?


You mean the charge that saved Havenport’s brigade?

You mean the charge that saved the artillery?

(Also could you please post the quote? I don’t recall Cataphrak ever saying that. I’m pretty sure he left it ambiguous as to whether or not 400 Grenadiers were worth a few dozen artillery guns.)

Either way, none of these decisions were careless or idiotic. The Death Ride temporarily disordered the Antari infantry, buying Havenport additional time, and it then prevented 5,000 light cavalry from rolling over the Highlanders or pursuing the retreating army. Sacrificing a few hundred cavalry for it was a pretty good trade, all things considered.

As for Hunter, he saw the undefended guns and decided to act. I doubt that was a decision he made carelessly. Plus, it wasn’t just the guns he protected - his last stand probably bought time for the rest of Castermaine’s brigade as well.


Well, if we hadn’t made that disastrous charge, it’ll be Sayōnara to Havenport’s 4,000 men. Not to mentioned that he already loss about 400-600 men when we made that charge. Also, without this disastrous charge, our regiment won’t be called one of the most hardened and foremost regiments in the King’s army.

We would have loss most of the King’s Grand Battery if he didn’t made that last stand with the King’s Own Braves.

“Havoc” Metheson is just the Baron Metheson’s nickname or sort of, similar to Castermaine who was nicknamed “The Old Complainer”.


It’s a nod to Mattis.



It just makes so much sense for a 14 or 18 year old MC to do this.

Not so much for the 25 and 30.


To be fair I do agree that the value of being named the wars ultimate victor probably isn’t worth the financial crisis the kingdom is now in. Once kharangia was taken it might have been enough to persue peace talks that may have been unfavourable but not as unfavourable as the current situation


It’s unlikely that would have worked. If Tierra offered significantly lighter terms Khorobirit and his allies would have rejected them so long as they still maintained an army capable of defeating the Royal Army. On the other hand, if Tierra offered terms similar to Antar’s original war aims it would have rendered the last half-decade of fighting pointless and added such a massive economic burden that the kingdom’s economy may well have finally collapsed completely.

Unfortunately, I don’t think much of middle ground ever existed in this war, despite what the peace faction would have claimed. Victory was simply too important to too many people for a negotiated settlement to have a real chance of success.