The Dragoon Saga (Sabres of Infinity, Guns of Infinity, Lords of Infinity) - General Discussion



The problem appears to be the fact that he believed the Germans would crash into the Allied defences on the Belgian border instead of just outflanking them.

Then again, someone like @Studwick is probably better-read on this particular topic than I am.


He also went, “Belgium is perfect tank country, it’s flat, is perfect to bomb the crap out of England, and if I can stop them on Belgium. We don’t have to fight in France.”

Since most of his plans consisted on the best British and French armies charging headlong into Belgium.

Combine that with the fact that they completely ignored the dozen or so intelligence agents screaming, “THEY ARE GOING THROUGH THE ARDENNES BOMB THEM!”



Isn’t that the Swadian King from Mount and Blade Warband?


Yes, and Cataphrak’s “Butterlording Intensifies” post was also a reference to Mount and Blade. Referring to Harlaus’s tendency to gift fiefs to himself.

(The butterlord thing is because there was once a bug - I don’t know if it was in a mod or the core game - where Swadian villages stocked ludicrous amounts of butter, and because Harlaus loves to throw constant feasts, people concluded that the Swadian lords must be feasting on butter. Therefore, they are butterlords.)

Those savages. Why can’t they build their culture around crossbows, skull-drinking, or horses, like sensible people?


Because our fingers are too slippery to hold anything. They’re covered in butter from all the time we spend making butter.


“Colonel Eddy Bauer of the Swiss general staff asserts that what was coming was apparent to him and his colleagues in Bern. Like Halder looking at the Kuhhaut at Zossen, Swiss officers could see the weakness of the French line guarding the Ardennes. They saw the same concentrations on the German side that were noted in French and British intelligence reports. They saw all but three of Germany’s armored divisions on a line south of Liège. In their view, it seemed reasonable to expect that Germany would strike where the French were most weak. “Should one have supposed,” he writes scornfully, “that the offensive, which was expected very shortly, would begin by a curious, tight maneuver, aimed at gathering around Aix-la-Chapelle [Aachen] an enormous mass of vehicles which together would have made up a column of 1,000 kilometers?”

Strange Victory
Ernest R. May

Whoops x2


I’m interested to know where this map is from?
AFAIK, the first real updated War Plan after the fall of Poland was counting on a strong German push to secure Belgium by pushing for Liege and Brussels first before turning southwestward, or at least by hugging the northern edge of the Ardennes until the terrain opened up. If Gamelin had counted on the German advance being aimed directly at Sedan i don’t think he would have left reserve units to guard it and the Meuse.

Even had the GQG decided to commit to aerial interdiction in the Ardennes, i’m not sure they would have been able to pull it off. The Coalition-Warfare model came crashing down hard in 1940, and planes were quickly moved around to even up some of the contests elsewhere. Since the French were pretty much on their own when it came to Fighter Cover, they had to move aircraft from other fronts to contest German air superiority in Belgium.


Gamelin’s problem was that his goal and Daladier’s was always to keep the war as far away from France as possible. Thus while he considered the possibilities of an attack directed at Sedan, he eventually discounted it for a stand on Albert’s Canal in Belgium.

Which is why the French and British, as you are well aware, got trapped in Belgium when Kleist and Army Group A slammed through the Ardennes. (Slammed through is too much of an exaggeration, but fits what they did to Huntzingen).

It also didn’t help that the RAF doctrine in the time discounted the belief that their strategic bomber force would be of use against armored columns and troops themselves.

It’s from Ernest R. May’s Strange Victory.


It still is absolutely nuts how France, the country which halted the German Army for four years from 1914-1918 and eventually (with some help) pushed them all the way back into Germany, fell within months in 1940. And it is absolutely mind boggling how Petain, the hero of the first war, ended up selling out his nation to fascism and helping run a fascist puppet state just twenty years later. I can’t imagine how big a blow to morale it must have been for the British in 1940 to see their most powerful European ally be knocked out of the war in one fell swoop. It only magnifies the courage and honor of the UK standing completely alone against Nazi Germany for a whole year afterwards.


And to think that United Kingdom and Prussia were once allies against Napolean’s France is strange …
Push back further in medieval time, England and France Embark in a 100 years war , and under Henry V almost annex part of France … UK or rather England and France have enjoy a love-hate relationship for such long …


Fighter pilots in exile fly over foreign land
Let their story be heard, tell of 303rd
Fighter pilots from Poland in the battle of Britain
Guarding the skies of the isle

To quote Eomer in the The Two Towers movie:

“Not alone.”


To quote what seems to be every well-meaning doofus in every comedy skit ever:

“I’m helping!”


“What took you so long?”


I don’t want to say that the British didn’t display some pretty impressive grit and fortitude, but…

Talking about the Battle of Britain and forgetting the Poles, Canadians, and everyone else is just…

It’s not nice to rub it in that my country joined especially late when I’m trying to be objective. :grinning:

But it needed to be said.


And talking about the Allies in WW2 and forgetting the Russians is even more so.


To be fair, for a period of time, the British were the only ones facing an existential struggle against Nazi Germany, seeing as most of their allies at the time had already lost theirs.

From a certain perspective, you weren’t any later than the rest of the planet.

In context, he was only referring to the year long period between the fall of France and Operation Barbarossa.

Of course, that was also the period when the Soviets were actively supplying much of the Wehrmacht’s logistical needs via Molotov-Ribbentrop.


Speaking about WWII propaganda, Mexico (which actually did send a combat squadron to the Pacific to fight the Japanese) had some awesome propaganda:


(this one states that "Liberty does not sink. There is always a voice which defends it and an arm which saves it.)


True. But having those Poles and others who refused to give up keep fighting has to count for something.

I suppose. “Better later than never.” seems a bit too blithe for me to feel comfortable saying it, though.

This not at any specific post, but I want to drop the link:

So many heroes, so little time to do them justice.


One of our long-term goals for Burden of Command is to make more campaigns telling the sort of untold stories which usually don’t make it into the conventional western historiography of WW2.

Personally, I’m holding out for the chance to cover the Battle of Yenanyaung and Sun Li-Jen.


The entire Burma campaign (and the rest of the Pacific campaign which didn’t involve the US Marines) tends to be completely forgotten. But it was the Burma campaign and also the Chinese defense of their homeland for a decade and a half which prevented millions Japanese soldiers from fighting on other fronts. China lost nearly 15 million soldiers and civilians in WWII, and it is a shame that their sacrifice is not more recognized in the west today.


That should be very interesting.

I hope we have at least potentially the option of seeing how the previously told stories look in the light Burden of Command sheds on the war, but that’s more “What kind of fan would I be if I didn’t want to see everything?” than anything I’d press for.