The Dragoon Saga (Sabres of Infinity, Guns of Infinity, Lords of Infinity) - General Discussion




I would be inclined to think that Cavalry School might get the upper hand on the Reform Commission if it is populated by the MC, Welles, Palliser and Lord Marcus Havenport. I imagine the Castermaine and the Brigadier Generals might support the infantry school.

As far as future war plan goes, I’ve been working on Plan M where A Tierran Expeditionary Force returns to Antar in a preemptive war against Khorobirit 12 years down the line. Khorobirit has invested 15-20 regiments of line. My plan to confront that threat using the Infantry School method would be 1) Standardize to the common foot soldier and light cavalry trooper. 2) Invest heavily in the Garing rifle and GGT new cannon as a force multiplier. 3) Create Demi-brigade sized squares that Hussars couldn’t break. 4) Pound them with the artilery then use your light cavalry mop up. 6) Add additional officers by staffing Grenadier Square with bane blood ladies. Allow male baneless to be officer in artillery and infantry regiments.


Ranked from what I think to be most important to least important:

  1. Dedicated logistics branch - time and efficiency wasted by inept staff officers is time and lives lost.
  2. Permanent special purpose units - versatility. Also, Experimentals.
  3. Standardized junior officer training - so junior officers don’t have to learn everything from scratch. Also, less chances of more Carrecourts and blatant nepotism, hopefully.
  4. More authority to company/troop and battalion/squadron officers - versatility and mobility. Also seems synergistic with standardized officer training.
  5. Ordinance board reform - no one should have to use cracked flintlocks. Also possibly helpful in adopting Garin’s rifles.

I’m all for smaller, more autonomous units (especially if it’s going to be a defensive war). However, we also gotta make sure that these units are actually competently led and well provisioned. Versatility and mobility won’t mean much if the soldiers are starving, isolated, out of bullets, or dead.


I mean, yeah, in a best-case scenario we’d have a time machine. :stuck_out_tongue:


If your assumption that the next war will be very much like the previous war is correct, then I’d agree with you. Nevertheless, historically speaking, one of the biggest mistakes a nation can make is assuming that the next war will be the same as the previous one and Cata has given us reason to believe that Tierra may not be the invader in the next war but the invaded instead.


Though personally I want to know what exactly Tierra’s army is planning on fighting. Round 3 with Antar needs a different sort of army than “how do we keep the Takarans from kicking over Tierra like it was a sandcastle?” (Answer: Prayer and lots of it)

I’m not really firmly committed to either until things like “What needs overhauling about the manual of arms?” are answered, but my gut is probably infantry school.

The sharp end of the King’s Army has worked fairly reliably (as far as Tierra has anything working “fairly reliably”) and the other parts are grossly inefficient is something I feel fairly confident in asserting.


Maximilian vam Holt isn’t the power fantasy we need, but the power fantasy we deserve.

Seriously though, the guy is really impressive (and kind of scary for the power he holds). Has he just had a very successful, spotless career? Or has he had to do questionable actions to rise so high?

Also, will our Dragoon have the ability to ever meet and interact with him? What does he think of a MC at various relationship statuses with his son?

Will we ever be able to meet her?

I’m an Infantry School guy myself. I think anything RTA does to improve itself will be a good thing because we are basically the bottom of the barrel for Armies (and in a way this is good because the only way RTA has to go is up and that can take several different forms), but I believe the “boring” stuff to be immeasurably important for any conventional standing Army.

With the “boring” stuff being taken care of, the troopers and commanders can focus within themselves, how they can become better themselves, and how to best to serve their part within their Army, thus creating a homogenous Army. Infantry Scool is a foundation more than anything. It allows the RTA the ability to grow while still being firmly rooted together at its base, so to speak.

There are certain aspects of Calvary School I think would be worthwhile as off-shoots in the RTA branch as I and others have said before, but these off-shoots should be the exception and not the rule.

That’s my thoughts.


To those who responded, assume the reform commission looks into the crystal ball and determines that deterring and if necessary actively resisting a Takaran or Kian invasion is Tierra’s most credible threat. Does that change your response?


Oh look, it’s Imperial Russia, circa 1915

As @Iggles, @P_Tigras, @RanchoJoe amd @cascat07 have noted, it would make sense to support the Calvary school if this war is fought on our soils. After all, I need no reminders the amount of times a side has utilise Guerrilla tactics against a supposedly big army. It happened in Vietnam, it happened in Afghanistan, must have happened beforehand and it will happen in future. To an extent, we saw this in Antar, from both sides.

Despite myself leaning for Infrantry, for the sake of me having an army that’s not going to go “where the hell is my equipment or who left this idiot in charge?”, there’s the smart person in me that favours these tactics and special units. For my sake, I hope Cataphrak will make it such that were you in the reform, we can do a lot of compromises or I’m able to big one major proponent from both sides. It’s ballsy, but I’m never been one to play favourites.

Edit: Didn’t notice @cascat07’s reply. In a way, my first paragraph sort of says my answer. Problem is, unless public sentiment shifts for those nations or their invasion becomes more and more financial straining, I reckon we’ll only be in a stalemate, best case scenario, or delaying the inevitable, worse case scenario. Hence, the most ambitious thing, if it comes down, is to find a terrain that best suits you, amass probably all your available forces and pray you can force your enemy to a tactical retreat. Hence, we’ll probably still need some components from the Infrantry school fulfilled. Of course, as I’m not a full history buff, I could be wrong.


Tierrans watching a play about PC leading FH, charging into breach.

PC charges unscathed through banefire trap while his dragoons turn to ash


As to @CasCat07 question:

I think what would be most helpful for Tierra & for the Dragoon officer personally would be to tread that fine line & work out compromises digestible to most of the people involved.

Tierra is in need of great many things but what they can actually pay for & what they should have paid for (if they had the financial resources)are two very different.

That would mean that we should get the most (obviously) beneficial reforms knocked out first from both schools of thought before we go leaning too heavily in favour of one at the detriment of the other. Like @unoriginal_username said in a different context, what we might need is an army that is jack of all trades but master of none.

And finally IIRC Cataphrak said something about us making good compromises, walking that fine line or suffering consequences for doing things the other way. I think this is what Lords might be about. Make difficult but good choices. That would involve us not recommending reforms that Tierrans budget can’t pay for or worse yet plunging it further into debt spiral.

I’m beginning to sympathise more & more with Weathern. Poor guy


The Patreon article noted that the MC can walk the line between the two schools. However, the article also said that, should the MC rely on the influence of other players to get into the Commission, he will likely have quite a bit of pressure to vote as he is told to.

Ninja’d by @castellan

My first thought was “Invest on forts and way better artillery. It would be best to keep them from landing their forces on Tierran soil” but that’s a purely defensive move that would likely lead to blockades. Trying to equip the Navy to be able to compete with either so they can prevent blockades would likely be way too costly.

If Takara or Kian forces landing on Tierra is unavoidable, then unconventional warfare would likely be the way to go. Facing them in a pitched battle sounds like suicide, especially with Tierra having a smaller population, and thus smaller armies, than either. Hartigan has the right idea when he said Tierra has to “fight smarter”. So no, I don’t think my answer would change much.

But if it has to be a war on Tierran soil, by all means, invest on semaphore towers. That would be one way to easily and rapidly coordinate Tierran forces on a “home game”

On another note, I find it interesting that practically everyone who’ve commented on the ARC either support the infantry school or a mix of the two. I don’t think I’ve seen a pure cavalry school supporter yet.


Not really, no. Do I think an Infantry School type Tierran Army can stand up to either super-giants? No. Do I think Calvary School might have a better chance purely for fundamental reasons such as decentralization? Possibly.

But regardless, in my mind, like I said before, the Infantry School is more a foundation than the whole Army. It allows for more steady building and developing of its commanders, troopers, and the cohesion between the Army as a whole. The off-shoots, as I talked about before, would be there to improvise and respond quickly and accordingly if needed, at least in theory.

Now, obviously, this line of thinking isn’t perfect. If that foundation was rocked then the whole house might come down, and the off-shoots might be able to be specifically targeted easier. However, I think the Tierran Army (assuming it survives long enough) would adapt its Infantry School type training to fit the bill against Takara or Kian.

Maybe that adaptation would be in the form of a more Calvary School aligned Army and having the Infantry School at all would be a waste of time in this circumstance, but maybe with the Infantry Schools understanding of the larger, conventional Armies of Takara or Kian then Tierra might be able to at least understand their enemy.

To be honest, as I think about it, I really don’t know what approach would be best (how can I, or anyone else?). I’m just trying to think about it logically.

What do you think?


I forgot to add, I also think the infantry school’s desire for larger permanent formations is also useful here as permanent brigade staffs can be set up at major fortifications across Tierra, each anchored by a permanent unit. This way as Aetoria very likely falls due to a combination of sabotage/assassaination/invasion, the odds of all the regional brigade commands falling so quickly is much slimmer, enabling them to become centers of resistance. And while Takara or Kian would be able to eventually capture the brigade headquarters, those independent brigades would likely have ample time to move into the countryside and take on the role of guerilla fighters. It’s ok if some of them are eliminated, as the ones still operational can take up the slack.


This scene already exists, although for some reason it only shows up if you don’t do the secret mission:

*if wealth >= (house_debt + interest4)
In fact, the proceeds of your decade of service in Antar have amassed you enough wealth to pay off not only the immediate obligation, but the whole of your family’s debts as well.

Alas, that fortune, once spent, shall be considerably harder to replace.

For a non-disgraced dragoon, Katarina is set to 30 at the beginning of chapter 3, which means fairmath makes it easier to boost your relationship with her than to hurt it. If you don’t chase the partisans, the %10 penalty brings you down to 27, but you can recover that with a %5 boost if you tell her you didn’t want to be lured into a trap, and even go up to 33 if you’re not merciful. On the other hand, not pursuing the partisans is a huge missed opportunity, since you go up to 43 if you run them down successfully. Visiting her in Kharangia doesn’t give much opportunity to boost your relationship unless you already have a decent relationship with Cazarosta. You can’t ride with her while escorting Lord Cassius unless you chased the partisans and boosted your relationship with her at Kharangia. Basically, it’s pretty difficult to be invited to participate in the secret mission if you don’t order your lieutenant to run down the partisans; it involves alienating Lord Cassius to some extent (simply taking the Eastern route is not enough) and/or defending women officers for a reason that Katarina likes.


Ok, so that one wasn’t Fairmath’s fault. My bad. Thanks for the correction. As I noted above, I was operating purely on a very foggy memory from several years ago so I recognized that I might have been mistaken.

I was able to get invited to the secret mission without chasing after the partisans or antagonizing Cassius, but i did have a decent relationship with Caz and I did visit her at Kharangia. While I didn’t actively oppose women officers I didn’t actively support them either, and Kat’s approval still went up.


See, I know that, I should have said I’m hoping the concessions are really beneficial to the parties as oppose to where both parties suffer regardless, hence my scenario of opting to supporting just one major proponents from both parties. Again, not exactly smart, but it’s the most logical thing to do if I want an compentent army to work with in the future.


You could have 33 relationship after telling her the partisans were luring you into a trap (if you’re not merciful). You could boost that to 43 through visiting her at Kharangia, but that’s not enough to ride with her. If you ask Lord Cassius to go to the rear for the lady’s sake and then take the Eastern route, that brings you to 50, but you need 51 to be invited. You need to do at least one of the following: bluntly tell Lord Cassius to go to the rear (which hurts your relationship with him, as does taking the Eastern route), stoke your men’s desire for vengeance at Blogia, argue for women officers, or visit Lady Katarina during your free time at Mhillanovil (this only helps if your relationship is exactly 50: if it’s less you can’t visit her, and if it’s more you don’t need to).


I’m fairly certain I visited her at Mhilanovil as well and picked up a relationship increase there. I don’t recall whether I stoked my mens vengeance at Blogia in that play-through. It’s also not impossible that I min/max’d the relationship scores and sent Cassius to the rear if I felt that there were ample opportunitues to later recover from the hit to his relationship score. Unfortunately I don’t currently have access to my game notes. But I see what you mean about it not being easy.


I think the Infantry school would work better against Kian and the Cavalry school better against Takara. I’d prefer a stronger base to deal with Kian horde + artillery style. Plus the high ROF Garing rifles will come in very handy. As for Takara, the Cavalry school will basically translate into a quick adoption of guerrilla warfare and refusing to give open battle unless absolutely necessary. However, there’s no way though that even if the full extent of reforms of an entire doctrine is achieved that we will be able to beat either of the super powers.

The trick is whether or not the RTA will be enough of a distraction to Takara or Kian while the other pounces on their rival once they are busy with us. We don’t have to be victorious, just stubborn and enough of a pain in the ass to slow down the invasion’s progress to a crawl or stalemate. The endgame is for the invasion force to slowly pull men and equipment to other fronts, seeing the Tierran front as a lost cause more or less, or we hope that our allied super power is able to endanger our enemies home continent and force the hostile expeditionary force to completely withdraw in order to protect the home front.


I think it’s more likely that there’s a civil war and Takara and Kian use proxies.


The Tierran navy would be more useful against Kian then Takara as Kian like Tierra lacks the ability to sail against the wind. We’d probably have to either disperse the fleets or keep them within range of major fortresses such as Leoniscourt, but at least we’d be able to force Kian to sail in large armadas if they didn’t want to get picked off.

Keeping Leoniscourt and the Northern Pillars out of Takara’s hands would be an even tougher challenge. They need to be given the absolute latest arms, especially artillery, that Garing can make, and stocked with several years worth of food and ammunition. Fresh water too if it isn’t feasible to distill or set up distillation of sufficient quantities. Smuggling in supplies will become much more difficult if these two island fortresses fall.

Not more likely. This will be part of the invader’s plan, but they will attempt to wrap it up and turn it into a fait accompli before their rival has time to react. Miguel will likely be assassinated and replaced by a puppet who controls the capital and is armed and funded by the invading power. This will launch a rebellion which in turn will be supported by the other great power.