The Dragoon Saga (Sabres of Infinity, Guns of Infinity, Lords of Infinity) - General Discussion



The Caz mission does give a nice boost to Soldiering, but if you go for a 2nd or 3rd level of Antari while at Mihillanovil, you get a roughly equivalent boost to Intellect, so I go that way.

I enter with GoI with an 18 year old Aetorian Hero MC, S: 51 C:60 I:69, pretty much as peak Min-Maxing you can get in SoI while still being on the younger side of things. First down-time break I start learning Antari. Second, I check men and do a staff meeting, huge investment in Garing Bolt-action rifles, then start memoirs. Third, I level up Antari to 2 and get a nice Intellect boost up to 72.

I get on bad terms with Caz and Katarina due to my RPing of the character, moderate (~60%) cynical and very high mercy. He was buds with Caz but has grown more and more distant since Fernandescourt due to their very different ideologies. He refuses Caz at the FH for the reward and to prevent him from getting more influence in the RTA. As for Katarina, he doesn’t trust her, doesn’t like her bad-mouthing his men, and doesn’t like her constantly second-guessing his tactical decisions. Not because she’s a woman, he’s been a feminist and believed in Women in the military since Wulfram’s reception, but because she’s a military amateur/armchair general that believes to know better than an experienced and decorated officer. He doesn’t get along with Castermaine because he publicly sides and decently defends Welles and I’m assuming that big C doesn’t like that. He’s iffy to meh on Cassius, mainly because he recognizes that his country does not have Tierra’s best interests in mind. Pretty much everyone else is on good to neutral terms with him.

He always goes to 2K and, if he is ever offered the SM, he turns it down because he doesn’t trust Kat. At 2K he either charges the Antari line solo, losing Lanzerel and Marion, or watches the E.C. and Lewes dying at 2K so the Dragoons can get two volleys off against the Hussars. He still mentors all three lieutenants, but doesn’t devote a down-period to them.

Heh fair, but I gots to have me some drama in my MC’s pursuit of Welles. Katarina’s romance will undoubtedly have some too, but I trust Welles to at least stab you in the front with a saber and not literally stab you in the back in bed.

You’re having too much of an impact on the size of my posts @Rapid


@muffy please do share the link when it’s done, good job!!, Edit: ah never mind just saw the link to the guide, still great work!!!


Yes, I’ve tried doing that before - and considered keeping it as my main playthrough - but always revert back to watching Caz for the Strellyck Mission because 1- he’s awesome (terrifying, but awesome), 2- it fits my MC, and 3- it gives a fair bit of ruthlessness which is needed to shoot Aleksa. Also, with your way, I can’t squire Renard.

All the same up to first down time break. I do check my men and call a staff meeting. Huge investment as well, bigger I believe. I don’t do memoirs. I can’t remember what I do at that point actually. Then I either learn Antari or Mentor Renard depending on the playthrough.

Ah. Makes sense. Mine is the opposite for mercy, but the same (if not higher) cynicism. He quickly became friends with Caz simply because he felt Caz was the only one that could understand him for his ruthlessness (he wears a mask around everyone else, but was rather different with his reasons behind his actions and Caz’s as he is cynical and Caz idealistic) and thought such a relationship would yield favorable results (although Caz has certainly pulled him down that darker path, and my MC absolutely loves it). Then he met Katarina and was taken with her - not instantly, he became interested once he found out her true ideals which was after he ran down those Antari partisans - because he felt the same way for her as he did for Caz. She could understand him, he her (and in this he does trust her and Caz as much as he might trust himself), and such a relationship could yield favorable results (which in his mind already have, especially if he goes on the SM). The fact she was a Cazarosta and all was just icing on the cake for him. In fact, he is right on the verge of wishing he was a Cazarosta himself (or at least from the Salt Coast) because he was never close to his mother (she’s dead) and he and his father had a terrible relationship. He sees Caz and how he talks about his father and wishes he could’ve had that, as well as all the power and money that comes with the family name (and he’d be legitimate if he was heir of Leoniscourt). These feelings are doubled with Kat. He - much like me I suppose, but in a different way - is absolutely entranced with the Cazarosta family and is very interested in meeting Calvin.

See, my MC wants Caz to go as far as he possibly can. If my MC couldn’t offer for both to do the FH, he absolutely would have handed it over. With Kat, he only trusts her as much as he might trust himself (except she’s idealistic so she’s a little different, but he fully knows what she is capable of). He fully realizes that she is exactly as you described her in military matters, but he is willing to give her the benefit of the doubt in those matters because he finds her very competent in others and he can handle her when it comes to his command (and eventually Cazarosta puts her in check over micro managing the MC). Still understandable why that would irk you though.

Who says she will be the one doing the backstabbing (and I don’t mean Cazarosta)? The key about being in a relationship with someone you don’t completely trust like this is to match them in untrustworthiness so that each understand each other. Maybe that’s screwed up (doomed to fail even), but I find so long as one doesn’t make themselves a puppet and keeps strength, the other party can see that and at least respect it.

That’s called (character) development. Just say what you want to say in its entirety, and the people who want to read it will and the people who don’t won’t. That’s my philosophy.


As has basically been said by everyone else, there aren’t really that many of them. It does mean that you can be as awful as you want in SoI without a whole lot of negatives, since your reputation is reset anyway.

It also means that you can have Katarina dislike you and still get to the Secret Mission, which is impossible for normal characters.

I think (not entirely certain) it also gives you a reason to tell Cazarosta that you can’t not do the Forlorn Hope, thereby not harming your relationship with him even if he does not get to partake.

And yeah, Garret.


Yeah, you get that as an option. Who knows how much that lack of good will gets expressed towards other people, though.


Kat isn’t untrustworthy, she’s just ruthless. As long as you earn and hold her respect and don’t try to force her to give up her career you’ll be fine.

I doubt very much that trying to “match them in untrustworthiness” will work with Kat. She has a lot of powerful suitors competing for her hand just to gain her earldom. She isn’t going to pick the MC over them if she considers the MC the least bit untrustworthy.


Ah, that’s why. I only have one playthrough, maybe two, that I actually play as ruthless characters and they’re usually just as bad, if not worse, than the Dirty Scoundrel preset. I used to focus on mentoring Renard too, but then there was the announcement that you have to be at the estate and not in Aetoria to squire him. My MC is almost always going to the capital to pursue RTA pension reform, the ARC, and Welles’ reforms.

Heh, maybe slightly larger, but I may also have decided to hop fully on board the Garing train with a 2000 crown investment. I choose to ignore bonding with Katarina in favor of the memoir because I’m hoping that they will provide an extra trickle of income. I’m hoping that the Aetorian estate + the 180 annuity + book royalties + Lt. Col. half-pay, are able to get my MC into the black financially until the rifle comes through.

Interesting thought/role playing process. I think the biggest divide between our MCs is definitely the ruthless vs mercy stat. My MC bonded with Caz because he always tries to give people a chance, even if the cynic in him believes most won’t rise to the occasion. After hearing Caz’s backstory, my MC with a dead mother, no siblings, and a distant father, empathized with him greatly. It was when they met up in Antar again and Caz’s ruthlessness is really displayed in earnest that my MC decides that he made a mistake trusting him. As for Katarina, he was wary of RTI beforehand, but between unfairly criticizing his men (Really? A body of soldiers in field conditions is somewhat unwashed and don’t have a baneblood’s education?) and encouraging them to run headfirst into a very obvious enemy ambush, his patience quickly ran out with her. Upon finding out she was a Cazarosta too, my MC is already very apprehensive about any meeting with the patriarch of a family he’s had almost nothing but bad experiences with.

Fair, again our MC’s greatly different opinions regarding the Cazarostas and ruthlessness seem to be the main reason why they go down such different paths. My MC would be perfectly happy if Caz never held a command or position outside of a desk for the rest of his life, and if Katarina’s plan came to light and she was vilified in Tierran society. Ehhh, he kind of puts her in check, but if you disagree with her in the escort chapter she can revert right back to how she was on the way to 1K.

Mmm, there are very few characters I’d rather not have to watch my back in a dark Aetorian alleyway more than Katarina. While we have absolutely no idea as to how the romance paths with the CD or Bethrothal may develop, I’d wager that, at this point, Welles and/or Lewes seem to have a far greater likelihood of staying a healthy relationship. Unless an MC betrays her political beliefs for a cash grab or something, I don’t see that changing tremendously. As for Lewes, just continue to provide strong liquors and not shit all over the rights of soldiers and baneless.

Heh, fair point. I think the age of character limits and page requirements has gotten me into the habit of trying to say as much as I can in the fewest possible words.

What if one loses her respect or disagrees with her on a RTA vs. RTI debate? I wouldn’t imagine any of the ROs would be happy with similar issues, but I would certainly expect accidents to start occurring if the MC and Kat already have an heir.


I doubt she’s going to end you over a petty disagreement…

Unless you somehow make her life so unbearable that the only viable solution is to remove you permanently. And I would say that might require more effort on your part than simply trying to keep her happy.


Judging by how Caius acts - as the actual sociopath - someone with a good relationship with Katarina who disagrees with her probably has a ways between “will take steps to eliminate you” and “will probably not do something out of trust for you”.

Depending on the issue, but it seems like it would take an awful lot to get the daggers to come out unless she already despises you.

As relates to adding something new: Katarina seems more intemperate in the sense she wears her feelings on her sleeves perhaps more than Caius does, but that’s not the same thing.


Kat isn’t going to have an MC husband she respects liquidated over a disagreement. Even when you first meet her and she’s disappointed that you didn’t send your men off chasing partisans in the woods, it’s possible to bring her around once you explain the dangers to her. She isn’t sociopathic, just ruthlessly pragmatic.

As far as losing her respect is concerned, then her MC husband should probably be a good little puppet if he wants to continue breathing. I don’t really see her putting up with a fool she can’t control.


@unoriginal_username @Elfwine
Ok, maybe I am just being little bit paranoid when it comes to Katarina. However, I still feel like she’s the most likely RO to try and off the MC if their relationship deteriorates enough. I’ll still play through her route, probably multiple times, and enjoy them, but personally I wouldn’t trust her one bit. She reminds me a little bit of the one bethrothal option in Lords of Aswick that poisons you once you fall ill in old age, she just has that kind of vibe to me.


“More likely than the Betrothed or Welles” (not counting the male options as I’m not as sure who they are) is not very stiff competition, since really she’d be competiting against “I can’t imagine she actually would” and “very slight possibility she might”.

I’m not saying I wholly trust Lady Katarina, but there’s a difference between being cautious if she’d lie to you and expecting her to use murder without severe provocation.

As in, not just “disagreement” but “I’ve attempted to actively alienate her”.

Edit: I can’t argue with subjective impressions, but I think it does need to be noted that it’s a rather strong one for merely “feels creepy to me”.


This i have to disagree, i haven’t known Ellie for long ( i think her last name is Welles )… just met her in the escort mission , so i have no comment of her yet, but of Katarina’s interaction … i think she is the blunt honest type who display her intention early without lying … Katarina will express her disapproval of MC’s action bluntly whether you like it or not , and will compliment you if you meet her standard… on the “secret” which she couldn’t reveal, she will also state it bluntly that she couldn’t tell instead of giving you a lie… during the escort mission, Katarina bluntly told MC “NO” even before MC had a chance to ask a question , and she explain what are the things that she won’t reveal, and it is better that MC don’t ask at all… :slight_smile:

This is not to say she will fully open to us , but she will selectively pick the truth which are not lies :wink:


Eleanora d’al Welles, aka Countess Welles, aka Welles, aka Ellie.


The only male option confirmed right now IIRC, is Lewes. I recall some speculation that Hartigan or Marcus is the other, and then Cassius would probably be the unrequited.

I’m also saying that marriage can be for a long time. Just because you respected each other and were wholly devoted to each other when you got married does mean those feelings are static. Opinions, ideologies, and actions can all end up drastically changing relationship dynamics over the course of almost two decades (assuming the remaining books keep the relatively same length).

For the record, a good deal of my apprehension with Katarina not being afraid to use murder stems from the Intendant’s report in Katarina’s Patreon article. It seems to, at the very least, suggest that she was involved in an “accident” that the lead Intendant believed was actually a murder. Being involved in one murder and plotting the assassination of two more gives me pause if Katarina ever determines us to be a threat to Tierra, much the same way Caz can see you as an obstacle for not staying out of his way.


That betrothal option in Lords of Aswick was a prisoner who was forced into marrying you, and was furious that you warred against her family, resulting in her brother the Duke’s death. Had you supported her family instead of “betraying” them, she wouldn’t have murdered the MC in a fit of vengeful bitterness.

As long as you don’t attempt to similarly force Kat against her will, betray her family in some way, or give her another reason to feel a deep bitterness towards you, she won’t have reason to do the same.


I am the child of divorced parents. People changing over time or other factors is something I know personally (although my parents don’t hate each other).

But there’s a big gap between that and feelings strong enough to kill over.

Yeah, but that’s the thing. “A threat to Tierra” is one thing. “Someone I don’t personally like very much” is another, even to Caius. There are only so many things that get the “will Cazarosta try to kill you” thing invoked, and he’s fairly trigger happy by most standards of how people act when offended.

They’re different people, but since the’s the only character to try murder when “just offended”, I’m looking at him as a sign of how scary Katarina might be as far as weighing what you’re saying.


To be fair, it’s understandable why some people wouldn’t like Ellie considering how her first impression on the MC is her pointing a pistol at your head and cocking it before you can speak.


I didn’t say that, Iggles did. Please fix your quote and attribute it to the right author.


I do have to wonder what will happen if Katarina never intervene in time ? :-):sweat_smile:

I am thinking of perhaps just give a lie so that she won’t shot ? Lol :-):laughing: