The Dragoon Saga (Sabres of Infinity, Guns of Infinity, Lords of Infinity) - General Discussion



The PC might be able to - if it has to be voted on - influence who becomes grandmaster, but expecting more than that seems like a route to disappointment.

The idea that he “should” be it seems like it would end with a rude awakening if the PC actually expresses a sentiment like that.


The hero of Januszkovil only really applies when either Royal Intelligence or royalty is involved. As for better connected, you have the backing of a full Duke of the unified kingdom need I mention the Takaran ambassador. Further, the king is counting on you to change the kingdom and has a measure of trust in you. Also, what matters most is your own reputation with Hunter’s mother(Frederika) and when she also finds out Hunter had personally backed your promotion…


Guys please what does II stand for?


The second


Royal Intelligence, Royalty, the army, the public who cares about military glory…

The idea that a poor baron who might have a duke as a patron is “better connected” than a lieutenant colonel of of the Grenadier Guards is a bit of a stretch. This is ignoring the rest of Lefevebre’s family because at that point the PC is hopelessly outmatched.

Alternately, Imperial Intelligence, depending on context.


Imperial Intelligence - Takara’s shadowy spy and assassination agency.


The Duke of Cunaris has shown no small amount of rapport with you and his eldest child is a squire of yours. The public, as has already been established by the letter from Wolfswood, considers you to be nothing short of a hero. As already mentioned, King Miguel likes you and as does the army.


The Duke of Cunaris has shown that he personally likes you and thinks that you continuing to mentor his son is a good thing. Yes, this is a pretty significant thing for a poor baron whose family name means pretty much nothing except that he is a baron.

But it’s not “Cunaris will move heaven and earth on your behalf”, or even have you as more than “one of the young officers who I might favor”.

The public is going to be pretty in awe of Lefebvre’s reputation as well. Probably more so for him capturing a untakeable fortress with a battalion of Grenadiers and a squadron of Lancers than the PC for anything he’s done.

As far as Miguel, we don’t know exactly what he thinks of Lefebvre, but Lefebvre is certainly not in his bad graces.

AS for the army: This isn’t an area that the PC has comparable standing to Lefebvre in either.

The PC is - at best - a very fortunate poor baron who is temporally looking like he’s a big deal because he’s one of the heroes of the war. He is not the most loftily regarded lieutenant colonel at Kharnagia (that would be Pallisier) in general, even if to return to patronage Cunaris specifically might like him more.

Should I note that the Lefebvres have a great deal more influence on Grenadier Square - aka the army - than the PC or his family do?


You forget my points regarding Cassius Van Holt and Fredericka Hunter. Granted, Lefebvre has taken Januszkovil but you by yourself have held forlorn hope. Cunaris is far beyond the point of just ‘favor you’ he has entrusted his eldest child and heir to his duchy to you. While Lefebvre has more rapport with grenadier square, it won’t matter so much given as the public and Fredericka hold more influence over the matter.


Because Cassius’s opinion is irrelevant to this (and I doubt he even has an opinion on this), and there’s nothing suggesting Hunter’s mum regards you as better suited to this or that her regarding you as better suited to this if she did is going to change the minds of the men involved.

Cunaris is not “far beyond” the point of favoring you. That is him favoring you. All he’s doing is assuming that you’ll be a qualified mentor for his son, he’s not marrying female relatives to you, he’s not pulling strings to get you appointed to some plum position…

Considering the potential influence he wields, he’s not actually doing a whole lot besides showing that he recognizes his son likes you.

That’s not nothing, especially for someone as minor a figure as the PC is, but as acts of patronage go he could be doing a lot more. Maybe he will do more in Lords, maybe he won’t.

And yes, it will matter a great deal. The public has no reason to favor you over Lefebvre for this or in general, see above on the dowager viscountess.


Sees everyone wanting to become Grandmaster of Hunter’s Order

So uh, no else decided to just catfish the Hunters over the course of Guns and hope she stops replying?


Cunaris did give you a brevet promotion. There is evidence that she may be influenced(the reasons are already mentioned in a previous post of mine) to your side and don’t think for a second that her own opinion won’t influence the proceedings. Supposing Cassius were to become great friends with you(as he seems on the path to be doing, at least in my play through), it would counteract any movements at grenadier square as the risk of pissing of a Takaran ambassador is not worth it. Considering that you will be a mentor for his son is not just favouring you. He realises that you could have tremendous influence over Renard’s disposition and consequently over the future of Cunaris


Hartigan fought in the battle too.

The position will go to whoever provides the most support, or whoever manages to sway the other supporters into backing them.

By all means, hope for Grandmaster, but realistically I don’t think you should expect anything more than Swordsmaster to either Hartigan or Lefebvre. Though you might not get even that.

You don’t win a medal for participating in the Second Battle of Kharangia.

The attack on Januszkovil is public knowledge. The only thing people don’t know about is the objective. Which means, to the public, Lefebvre is the man who heroically seized an impenetrable fortress from a force that vastly outnumbered his own.

I’m not sure the Takaran Ambassador would have any real say over human religious matters.

As for Cunaris, I’m sure his support will help, but just because he likes you doesn’t mean he will back you in every instance. Furthermore, you aren’t the only one with connections. Lefebvre’s family has their hooks deep in the government, and he’s been in the Grenadiers for the entirety of the war so he probably knows a lot of wealthy lords and knights.

Eh, you’re not the only one the King is “counting on.”

That doesn’t really mean much.

You were the only option.

They don’t have to bow to Cassius’s every whim. I’m sure befriending him will be useful, but you can’t expect him to throw his weight around for you whenever you ask him to, and neither can you expect that weight to always achieve the desired result.


Cunaris gives you a brevet promotion because you’re the least undesirable officer for the position. It’s not a mark of favor.

He might be glad if you are someone he’d like to have said brevet rank, but he doesn’t really have much of a choice. You get it even if he despises you.

I imagine that some people might be interested in her opinion, but she’s not the one deciding, nor do they have any obligation to follow her wishes here even if she does feel like saying she favors you to them.

Suppose Cassius is great friends with you which its own debate given Takaran attitudes). He has no reason to back you here, the Tierran banebloods have no reason to defer to him here as it’s not even faintly something that Takara would do anything over and everyone knows it, so it wouldn’t amount to a hill of beans.

I think you’re vastly overstating how much influence “continuing what you’ve been doing during the war” will have over Lord Renard’s general disposition and leanings. Renard has quite strong opinions and feelings of his own regardless of what the PC says to him.

The PC teaching him a bit more about common sense and wielding a flaming sword on horseback isn’t going to change him that much.


Granted, hartigan probably has a good chance.You’re bound to win a medal for the second battle of Kharangia, simply because it isn’t mentioned in Guns, does not make it untrue. Judging by the rest of the book, it can take months for awards to be doled out. Lefebvre took Januszkovil, correct. But you played a monumental role in taking Kharangia. In the public’s eyes, Lefebvre took a fortress, you made the second battle possible. My point being that Cassius may prevent too much support from grenadier square. Cunaris will back you here, he has no reason not to.The king is not counting on Lefebvre. That bit about common sense is potentially a lot, Further, realising mistakes in minutes instead of hours is hardly just a “bit”. You also have the whole of lords to influence him.


It’s been two years since the Second Battle of Kharangia. You’ve already received your ransom payment, but no medal.

Okay, so in the public’s eye the Forlorn Hope was a bit more heroic than what Lefebvre did at Januszkovil, but that’s easily offset by the fact that Lefebvre is in a better regiment, has been a Lieutenant-colonel for longer, and has been a knight for longer.

One of the most defensible fortresses ever constructed by human hands.

Just because there’s no reason not to do something doesn’t mean that you should do it.

Then why did he let Lefebvre lead the assault on Januszkovil?


The public does consider you better than Lefebvre, make no mistake. The king chose Lefebvre because he knew Lefebvre was the sort of man who wouldn’t flinch at wetwork whereas the PC was not. Cunaris will back you, if not him, then renard is hardly unimportant.Lefebvre took a highly defensible fortress you held a breach with walls holding hundreds of rifles just ahead.

  1. You haven’t really offered any reason why or how when this is not something of any concern to Takara, and for all we know no importance to Lord Cassius.

  2. He might very well not get involved. He isn’t exactly following this closely as far as we know at this time, and he might very well not think you’re the best one for the part even if he is.

  3. Please note I said “a bit more about”. You’ve already done some work here, but you’re not reshaping his personality or something.

As for having the whole of Lords - not necessarily, and even if he is around you that long it’s still entirely up to him what he asks you about or listens to you about.

Judging by what happens in Guns, Lord Renard doesn’t exactly lean on the PC much.

What evidence do you have of this?

Being seen as a hero by the public does not mean that the public sees you as a bigger deal than Lefebvre by a long shot.


You have no basis for this claim. Also what the public wants is considerably less relevant in the context of a sainting, since it’s the baneblooded elite who are supporting it and deciding who gets to run the order.

In other words, the King decided Lefebvre was someone he could rely on.

Lefebvre took a highly defensible fortress despite it having banehardened walls, taking out 3000 men with a force of less than 600.

You held a breach against a few dozen inept Antari soldiers for a couple of minutes.

To be more serious though, sure, the Forlorn Hope is more impressive, but not by that much. And on its own it is not likely to convince anyone to pick you over Lefebvre.


Havenport and Pallisier are the main heroes of K2 to the public, not the MC.

Cassius isn’t even of the same religion. He has -zero- influence over who becomes grandmaster of a human religious order.

Also consider that every single officer in the Grenadier Guard is wealthier than the MC, and that Hunter was a Grenadier Guard. So many of the other donors will be Grenadier Guard officers, and they will defer to and support Lefebvre as their commanding officer.

If Lefebvre didn’t have the king’s complete trust he wouldn’t be in charge of the king’s bodyguards.