The Dragoon Saga (Sabres of Infinity, Guns of Infinity, Lords of Infinity) - General Discussion



Happy Birthday! @Cataphrak


Oh no.
It’s starting.


Not for the sake of survival, but because it would be an evolutionary advantage, and everyone that viewed it as evil would be dead because circumstances would not allow it.


Firstly, you said it would be a requirement for survival. Secondly, how do you see something like this realistically happening? “You cannot evolve unless you murder this innocent, and everyone who might have viewed this as evil is now dead for some reason.”


Mind you this is merely a hypothetical example in order to refute the point that it is completely impossible for humanity to view murdering someone without cause to be morally virtuous, I do not see it realistically happening, In fact I already said in the same post that I find it very unlikely to happen.


Young philosopher
Fans wishing you a good time
Your red letter day :birthday:


If it’s viewed as morally virtuous then it isn’t without cause.

When I say “without cause”, I mean: “you aren’t getting anything out of this, and it’s not a matter of principle, you’re doing it just because you feel like doing it.”


It’s going to have to be morally virtuous, or at least necessary (in the sense that it will lead to a morally virtuous consequence) to someone, or else they wouldn’t be doing it. There is always a cause, the question is whether our subjective judgments determine that cause to be acceptable or not.


Well than this statement contradicts itself.


Care to explain how?


because they murdering them would be viewed as benevolent and thus there would be a cause.


Wait are you talking about the view of the individual that is murdering? or the view of the society that the individual exists in?


Murder is objectively not a benevolent act. If there is a cause then at best it can be seen as a necessity.

Also I don’t see how I’m contradicting myself. I was specifically referring to a situation in which there wasn’t a cause, and then you tried to say: “but what if there is a cause?” You were the one who contradicted yourself.

In that instance I was saying that the vast majority of societies would view the individual doing that as evil or morally wrong.

Anyway, this discussion doesn’t appear to be accomplishing much, so I’m just going to call a halt to my role in it so we can move on to other topics. If you want to get the last word in, go ahead, but I won’t be responding any further.


It appears I misinterpreted your statement, as I thought you meant that the individual that murdered would see it as benevolent, not the societies.

When I made the claim that you were contradicting yourself I made it within the view that the you were referring to the individual that was murdering would see it as a benevolent act, if you interpreted that statement from that perspective than it would be a contradiction, but that is not what you meant and I merely interpreted your statement incorrectly.

Nevertheless, I do agree that this discussion is a bit pointless and unproductive, I withdraw my role within it as well.


How ones views anything is entirely subjective, and also depends on context. For example, I know many people who would want their loved ones to kill them if they were comatose. Legally, that would be murder, and morally some people would see the act as heinous, however, to them the act is benevolent as the “murderer” is risking themselves for the “benefit” of the comatose person.


With larger actions, depending on more people to complete an “evil” act, does this not then run into a problem of causes ending up becoming different for people throughout the process? I would argue an act could be evil, regardless of what causes were behind it.


Absolutely, I’m just saying that to the perpetrators of that act, it is a subjective good.


In that specific moment the decision to commit an act of evil is made, sure.


“There are two kinds of officers, sir: killin’ officers and murderin’ officers. Killin’ officers are poor old buggers that get you killed by mistake. Murderin’ officers are mad, bad, old buggers that get you killed on purpose - for a country, for a religion, maybe even for a flag. You see that Major Hogan, sir? That’s what I call a murderin’ officer.” - Patrick Harper, Sharpe’s Rifles (1993)

Of course it’s never that simple when your MC is the officer in question… :face_with_raised_eyebrow:


We didn’t do anything wrong. Just created living space for our Greater German Reich.