The Bastard of Camelot (update 03/03/2021)

It’s the Goddess’ magic - my Mordred is learning it at every possible occasion

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:heart::heart::heart: can’t wait for more

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Yeah, in most countries letting kids go around unsupervised was really common not too long ago. I imagine that in the “pseudo-medieval” era this game is set in this is really common.

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Yeah, the fact that a lot of people dislike Morgana has been pretty demonstrated and debated in the forum. Between manipulating and having sex with her brother then making him infertile, having another guy unknowingly(?) assume the paternity of the kid and cheat him by romancing one of his own knights, trying to use her son as an tool for vengence and trying to shift guilt to Merlin, its really hard to decide her worst element.
Still, she has some qualities like really loving her kids by the fact that we can kind understand her semi-broken state considering the death of her family(not that it excuses her actions).
I really want to see if Merlin is really the “manipulating devil” she describes, because from what we know of the history to this point i consider his actions entirely justified and seem directed at the good of the kingdom instead of selfish reasons. Arthur cant simply marry his sister and declare Mordred his heir without creating an huge deal of turmoil on an already unstable kingdom.

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While I absolutely love the story, can i just say a part of me hates what a coward Arthur is?! This is not the King Arthur i love :sob:

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Well, he seems a little too trusting and innocent. Coward? Dont think so, he sure seems like he has taken an hit to his self-esteem and is burdened by the weight of his kingdom, “uneasy is the head that wears a crown”.

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I mean, wouldnt you be? Ashamed of youself, angry at Morgana and indirecly ashamed of Mordred(considering the act you are ashamed of generated him) You are the king and you were manipulated by your own sister to bed her and from the incestuos relation an kid was born. While Mordred is innocent in the matter i can understand the mixed feeling Arthur feels.

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Maybe, but the King Arthur who I’ve become familiar with from most tales or variations is a heavy idealist and a very virtuous selfless man. Someone who would not let shame or embarrassment or even scandal compel him to refuse to claim a child born of his seed.

He is always portrayed as rather naive and trusting, but in most iterations I’ve seen he is a lot more willing to argue with or ignore the advice of Merlin or Lancelot (Whom I have similar concerns with*) and put his foot down and say “No, this is the right thing to do, so it’s what is going to be done.”

I’m not criticizing this story for portraying him differently, I think it’s interesting really, it just creates a degree of dissonance. I can understand his mixed feelings on the matter, I can even understand his initial decision, but what makes me go “Woah, this is definitely not the King Arthur I’m used to seeing” is the fact that he could see his now 10 year old child, see the pain and sadness and hope in his own child, and still choose reputation and self image over responsibility and virtue.

For the first time I’m reading an arthurian tale where King Arthur is not the admirable hero, but rather someone who I am eager to see get his comeuppance.

While there have been moments where I truly felt sympathetic for him, he quickly found ways to ruin that by being selfish and/or trying to have his cake and eat it too.

My heart shattered when I read him picking up the dragon figurine he carved after Mordred threw it aside and left. The sympathy did not last long.
When Mordred cries in the dragon pen and begs Arthur to be their dad, when Arthur quite coldly rejects Mordreds hug after the tourney (Even though no one would think his niece/nephew hugging him was that weird[Especially since his nephew had just hugged him as well]) etc

*Then there is Lancelot, often portrayed as the epitome of chivalry and virtue, the standard to which all men of honor, courage, and integrity are often compared. To see him push Arthur into rejecting Mordred, and then go so far and stoop so low as to intentionally harm another knight in a tournament just to spite a child.

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In defense of the different Arthur, the heroic Idealist Arthur is honestly pretty recent. Arthur straight up tries to kill Mordred as a baby in the May Day Massacre in older versions. Lancelot and Gawain also just go on a bunch of murder sprees. Lancelot even kills all of Gawain’s brothers other than Mordred (Gareth, Agravaine, Gaheris). I blame The Once and Future King which pretty heavily washed away a lot of Arthur and Merlin’s (and Lancelot’s) awful deeds and heavily villainized Morgause in return (Morgan doesn’t really feature much in that book from what I remember though the larger villainization of her role came with it as well). I hate that book so much but that’s a rant I shouldn’t get into. I think it’s kinda cool to see an Arthur who isn’t perfect though I get how that can be weird when compared to the modern, more popular, interpretation of him.

I do get your feelings towards Arthur though, it is weird to see a slightly less noble version when that’s become the norm. Reading some of the other stories was definitely a shocker for me. And my Mordred is definitely trying but failing to understand Arthur’s perspective even if she sympathizes. She’s just been a bit to embittered to really trust him.

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Also fun fact, Mordred and Gawain share a birthday in the literature! They were both born on May 1st, just like 10 or 20 years apart.

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I don’t really have any stake in this debate, but if we’re talking how accurate this portrayal is then in the original version Lancelot literally didn’t even exist, and Sir Kay could turn into a giant. The Arthurian legend has been reimagined so many times that there really isn’t any point in discussing how faithful a portrayal is.

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Wait a min…These stories about Arthur are from real literature? Which country do they originate from .

:exploding_head:

:exploding_head::exploding_head:

But, to actually add something to the discussion (lol): I like Arthur as a flawed character. Even idealistic selfless people aren’t flawless. The only way portraying Arthur as flawless makes sense (to me) is if the author intends to make him a larger-than-life character – more of a representation of something as opposed to a relatable human.

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Yes and no. King Arthur’s story is a product of mixing ancient folklore, medieval “history”, and generations upon generations of literary reinvention. The book most people point to as the one that really popularized the story of King Arthur is the Matter of Britain. Which is kind of like a British equivalent to the Aeneid.

If you were to read it though, it would be completely different from the modern pop culture version though. Stuff was added later. Lancelot for example was actually a french addition of all things.

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Arthurian literature includes many forms; from books to poems. Most of the literature originates in Western European middle-age realms, like France or England kingdoms.

Modern stories are in almost every media, including movies, books, games and much more. Again, the origins of most of these stories are of “Western” origin.

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the legends of King Arthur can be traced back to Wales and most scholars agree that he was a Welsh legend first. Then he kinda drifted to the rest of Britain and into France and the rest of Europe and so on with pretty must anywhere England colonized.

The different versions are all really interesting since it really shows what each country viewed as a knightly and ideal king and court. Welsh Gwalchmai is completely different from Dutch Walewain who are both super different from Vulgate Cycle Gawain. Also the names are a mess.

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Yeah… Gawain and Lancelot are definitely interesting in a lot of the literature. Their stories pretty tragic in a lot of versions. They’re the best of friends and when the affair is revealed, Gawain even takes Lancelot’s side. He and his brothers (Gareth and Gaheris. Not Agravaine, he usually reveals the affair) openly disagree with Arthur’s decision to execute Guinevere (Also Gareth was super close to Lancelot particularly) which just makes it more tragic when Lancelot comes to rescue her. He comes and just kills everyone in his way, including the three brothers. Gawain goes on a revenge quest which drags Arthur into war with Lancelot and then Mordred usurps the throne. Lancelot then kills Gawain and goes back to fight at Camlann. It’s all really sad. Most of their other murder sprees aren’t that tragic though.

There’s actually a kind of funny story where Mordred and Lancelot are travelling together when Mordred is still a new and idealistic knight. They see this priest whose supposed to tell them their future and its the priest to reveal Mordred’s parentage to him. Mordred kills the priest in a fit of rage and Lancelot admonishes him… because now he doesn’t get to hear his future. Lancelot also once broke into a man’s house to sleep in it and when the guy understandably got angry, he responded by stabbing him, then knighted the man as an apology. The literature gets wild.

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That’s very well put and honestly, to me personally at least that has always been precisely what king Arthur usually is! Like I’ve said I’m not complaining or bashing that he is different in this story, it’s just jarring!

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I mean, still i can hardly say he is deserving of punishment, heck besides Mordred i feel like Arthur is the one that got the shortest end of the stick. He might do “bad things” but not out of evilness and more out of innocence, shame and being manipulated. My path with him is quite good, he doesnt wanna publicly recognise Modred as his son but wants to do it secretely. I accepted the gift and his feelings truly felt genuine.
Even Accolon is deserving of more punishment in my view, the guy is an oathsworn knight and he decides to bed the wife of his own lord? Bad form bro.

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AHH That’s actually one of the details that put the final nail in the coffin for me, where any chance of me having prolonged sympathy for the man, immediately died out like a match dropped into the ocean. Gotta say I rather share Morganas reaction of “If you are only willing to be a father in secret, then you don’t deserve to be a part of Mordreds life at all.”

I’m quite certain by this point that my first full playthrough of the finished game will be aimed towards revenge and destruction :sweat_smile:

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