Just a thing i need help with
i have been having a same dream for few week,I am living in small town in somewhere in the earth or not but this dream is very funny for once i dreamt that i was sitting in a train station in that town and i saw a sign that was written that the next station is “Awaking” and the station before that “Limbo”.WHen the train arrive it’s on my third time i dreamt about the place,I got on the station that called “Awaking” then past for about 30 dream minute i wake up in reality.
the next time i dreamt,i walked down the road and interact with some random people in the dream.The time i was in the dream town of mine was in the late autumn or the begining of winter,The thing inside the town it look like the design of 1980 japan merge with modern time New York City.The people who walk the street dress in formal mostly but the younger people dress in clothes from the 1980s japan- modern time cloth.it is some how strange that the technology in the town,i haven’t seen any of those before for the thing they carried a rollable tablet made of black fiber and the mobile phone they use is thin and contain many of the picture,work,document and etc.
THe year that i am in i am not sure but i am sure to get in the train desinated limbo in my next visit or just travel around the town once more,but during my last visit i went to the shrine that look just like japanese shrine,and the flower at the back they have many of unique flower that i never saw it before.
as longer i am in the dream they have some kind of thing happen when i have to wake up,for example last time i just appear in the train with not reason or last time i sleep in some one apartment in that town.i haven’t got a clear look or ask of the town name but in the dream i remember that i know it but now in my wake i forgot the name of the town.the winter wind breeze as i walk down the road in that town and there are many station before the “limbo”,as i have fear i thought that in my dream i carried some US Dollar and 2000 Euro,still i don’t know where i got those money and i got a strange train ticket that wrote “Lifetime access” on it,as i venture deeper into my dream i have reached a bar in the outer town.The bar was design to look like old fashion japan.i have a letter in a dream but i forgot it content what hve it said so i did’t recall how i have received it or open it and how did i come to this town.the cloth i am wearing is a shirt and a suit jacket over it and jean and leather boot and a t shirt under it.every thing there are realistic for i smell taste see and feel.
what’s this anyway?"
this is all i remember what i have written,what’s that town named anyway?,anyone have a same dream as mine before or it is just something i created myself,is it a world of dream,after life,death.i still wonder
Just a thing i need help with
Naturally, it’s just something you created yourself. All sense perception is relative to the Subject.
From the amount of details you managed to keep after waking up, I’d say you had history of OOBE in one form or another. That or you watched Inception a few times too many.
Still, this makes for good game material. :>
As Drazen said. Dreams are fascinating but have no ulterior meanings behind them. At best they can reflect your state of mind when you go to sleep.
OOBE’s (Out of body experiences) are a pseudo-science. Like others of their ilk, there is no evidence they exist outside the imagination of the people who coined them. Certainly, from a scientific point of view there is as much evidence for OOBE’s as there is for ghosts, god, or the Loch Ness monster. That is, none. Still, that doesn’t make them them a boring subject to write about. With fiction, the questions of what if… can always be answered.
@andymwhy The Low Sciences cannot make transcendental statements, since such are not subject to experiment by definition. Thus, ghosts, gods, and… somehow divorcing oneself from one’s material substratum… are all null issues for them.
I had some things strange as this…Once every year or so I get a strange dream that is a bit farther in my future only problem is that is a long time(Two years away)
@andymwhy, that’s the problem with science today. Just because something can’t be proven / measured / weighed yet by an exact metric fails them to qualify for their existence? When you put it like that, the label pseudoscience is a kind of like (rather arrogant way of) saying “if you don’t satisfy our criteria, you don’t exist” sense of word. Kind of low for those who call themselves scientist. To me that even defeats the scientific ‘mission’ in the first place, which is to explore and be openmind.
Can’t speak for Nessie, but I know OOBE is real because I’ve been there. (Matter of fact, it’s even trainable, but that’s another can of worm to open.)
Something is pseudoscience if it’s not falsifiable, generally. Nevertheless, one doesn’t need the Low Sciences to disprove such twaddle as OOBE’s: The King of the Sciences may do so through adopting a realist approach to transcendental apperception. For if we accept that unity of experience implies a unity of self, and that we have an awareness of ourselves as a consequence of this, then the self is, in a non-empirical manner, an object of our attention; divorcing the Subject from its object would be denying the ontology of the self. Basically: you cannot have a Mind without something to ground it, the body.
Further to @Drazen’s comment, most experiences of OOBE’s are simply put down to a dream. There was one case of an OOBE where a young woman (if memory serves me right) claimed to have an experience where she drifted up through the roof of the hospital she was in. From there, she reported seeing a red shoe on the roof of the hospital. After checking the roof, it was indeed found that a red shoe was sat on the roof of the hospital - proof that OOBE’s were real. However, after an investigation, it was discovered that the shoe was visible from several windows (the roof of the hospital wasn’t flat) and the woman had had ample opportunities to see the red shoe before her ‘experience’. There have been zero recorded cases of unexplainable OOBE’s.
Humans have a tendency to attribute a meaning to any unexplained phenomena. When retelling the experience, they then exaggerate what happened. A fantastic example of this is a simple magic trick I do, usually for children, where I take my ring and swallow it. A few moments later, I reproduce it from my stomach (through the t-shirt / top I’m wearing). The simple solution to this trick is that I palm the ring before putting it in my mouth, hide it to show my hands empty, then palm it again before ‘pulling it out of my stomach’. When the students retell the story to their friends, they swear blind they saw the ring in my mouth, they’re certain that my hands were empty and visible all the time, and they’re adamant that they saw the ring come through my tshirt. How do they think I do it? magic. Adults are just as easily deceived and exaggerate in the same way. An example here is @FcA claiming he’s experienced an OOBE after what was likely a vivid dream. The claim that it is trainable is inadvisable though - if OOBE’s existed and people could have them on command, then they would be testable by scientific method. Strange how no one has ever come forward to prove their claim (in the same way that psychics don’t come forward to have their abilities tested and claim the $1million Randi prize).
@FcA Well, frankly, yes. Having no verifiable proof does generally mean it does not exist, and in the case it does, well, the burden of proof falls will fall on practitioners and believers in whatever pseudo-science we’re talking about. And pseudoscience as a phrase is used to refer to things that have no reliable proof, cannot be measured, or do not rely on the scientific method. So even if it is used in a derogatory sense it’s still correct in this case.
Science is based on reliable, reproducible evidence. So anything that falls outside of that is not really science. Of course it’s not always so clear cut, but general it can be said that things without evidence have no evidence for a reason. Mainly, they don’t exist. Though we are limited by our technology at points.
But all this is only true if we’re using out of body experiences to refer to, say, astral projection. If we’re using it to refer to the experience itself, well, that is a different matter.
whats his about
An example here is @FcA claiming he’s experienced an OOBE after what was likely a vivid dream.
Actually @andymwhy, no it wasn’t, I know what I know. Funny how you jump to conclusion that it was a “vivid dream” before getting any details from my side?
I don’t think it was under the same *category* of dreams I usually had, which most of the times were rather surreal and didn’t stay in my head long enough after waking up. There was deliberate physical preparation before the experience (not sure if I want to go detail on that). I can say that I wasn’t seeking to experience OOBE on purpose at that time though. Admittedly there may be a few other things that may or may not factor in on that. For instance, I notice that I do have a pattern of having less dreaming over these years. Probably got something to do with getting older, which is another mind-boggling mystery to (not) discuss.
@Trywm, that’s the limitation I was taking about. Although, “no evidence” in itself is also not a ground for claiming that something doesn’t exist. Seems pretty common among science people - doesn’t matter if self-proclaimed or you have a PhD - the tendency to being so confident of assessment methodology we know/have at this time, while the science as we know today is only a fraction of the whole understanding of the universe mechanics that is getting perfected over time. Newton’s model was, say, near-prefect for some time until Einstein came along; not that it’s completely useless today, it’s just getting refined and detailed down. The same way with some things we (think we) know will get turned upside down one day.
Granted, most of the “low-level” are what they are: concepts. (I casually read articles/journals about blackholes and it looks like a fine example for this; theories after theories.) Is it untrue since it cannot be proved? We might just haven’t reached there yet. Admittedly at a point there’s always a bias whichever path we take, so there’s that. Dawkins comes to mind, actually. Lol.
If you guys are curious (while it’s prefectly okay to be skeptical), try and talk to people who have first-hand experience in astral body or deep meditation, I am not really one of those. Whether we like it or not there’s quite a handful of topics that just won’t make it scientific journals and internet articles. Then again, as with people, not everyone will tell you what you want to know if they find out that you engage in the discussion with intention to confront them over what they know from experience is doable (and how).
…Talk about digressing.
And no, I’m not endorsing astral body or anything, just saying that it’s possible to cultivate on that.
@FcA details are not necessary. You had a vivid dream and interpreted it as a real experience. Testing OOBE’s is a simple process: Take a person who claims to be able to have them, place an object or two on a shelf high in the room the person is going to have the experience from, let the person have their experience, then ask them what the object(s) on the shelf were.
This test has been done many times in the past with zero results in favour of OOBE’s existing. Hence, either what you experienced was no more than a vivid dream, or you are the first person in history to have a real OOBE. I know which side I believe.
@andymwhy And which tests are we talking about here? Links to website, anything? Are the sources credible in their own merit, both the test subjects and the folks who carried it out? I would love to read up when I have the time. Given the nature of the topic it is understandable that there might be fakers floating all over to prove something, thus rendering the so-called tests not valid.
And it doesn’t matter what you or I believe, really. Some things don’t just go away and cease existence because you don’t acknowledge them. The same can be said for ghosts, I guess. Or God.
@FcA, I don’t have the time or need to go searching for the sources, but be my guest. Although I’m surprised you haven’t already looked them up given your interest in the subject. The reason subjects like this don’t die is not because they are true (they’re not) but because people want to believe they are true, despite the lack of evidence.
All right, I did a quick google search and the most extensive recent experiment into OOBE’s is the AWARE Study by Dr Sam Parnia at the university of Southampton.
The 3 year study started in 2008 as referenced here:
AND FROM THE UNIVERSITY ITSELF HERE:
THE RESULTS FROM THE STORY? Well, the experiment was concluded earlier this year but I can’t find a single reliable reference online. Odd for such a large study. Not even the university have the published results. If OOBE’s had been proven, you’d have thought it would be world news… or at least scientific news…
I have learnt that Dr Sam Parnia is releasing a book with heavy references to the study early next year, though. Perhaps that will tell the world that OOBE’s are true! Let’s see:
The above link is the Amazon blurb for the book… Hmmm… he talks about NDE’s (Near death experiences) but there’s no mention here about OOBE’s despite the experiments set up as I explained in an earlier post. Let’s think about why that could be.
He’s saving it to the last moment to wow the world with his amazing proof of OOBE’s.
There was no proof so he’s focusing on other aspects of the study.
I’ll let you make your own conclusions or you can buy the book and tell me later.
Russell’s teapot, my friend.
I never said that something without proof definitely doesn’t exist, just that it is a likely possibility that it does not. The fact of the matter is that we have a huge base of knowledge compared to Einstein’s day or Newton’s day. We can litterally see atoms. Can you imagine that? Our abilities are mindblowing as they are, and they’re only getting better. And though mysteries remain in this universe we do have certain knowledge about some things. Our fraction of understanding is infinitesimal compared to all knowledge that could be, true, but that’s not a reason to doubt the things we do know unnecessarily.
I think the better question is “Is it true because it cannot be unproven?”
I will not pretend to be an expect on blackholes so I’ll skip this point. Although I would like you to explain what you mean by “theories”. Are you using the scientific definition or the everyday definition?
Well, I’ll agree with the reluctance some scientists have. They still have to get funding for whatever they’re doing, after all. But you talk of personal experience like it’s some sort of proof. In and of itself personal experience can prove nothing.
I have a habit of nitpicking my own cause. Near death experiences were the sole focus of the study, not out of body experiences, which encompass a larger scope. It might be that little evidence either way was collected either way. So I wouldn’t take that as proof of anything.
So the result is that I am having a OOBE.or I am just too stress from my book writing