Star Wars


#651

While I don’t agree that Snoke’s death was necessarily a plot hole in and of itself, I believe Snoke’s very presence ties into one of the biggest issues (not sure if I should use plot hole seeing as how definitions seem up to interpretation) of the new trilogy. The main factions.

Nearly everything involving the First Order forces you to basically suspend all disbelief. How have they become so powerful? How do they have production capabilities that exceed the Galactic Empire’s previous capabilities? Why use abducted children instead of clones or droids? Where are they getting the money to pay for their war machine?

Then the New Republic. Why do they have no military capabilities? Why is the Resistance separate from the New Republic? Why have they allowed the First Order to not only exist but have free reign to kidnap children by the millions? Why do they not come to the Resistance’s aid when they just watched 5 planets get destroyed by the Death Star 2.0? Why has what little military tech they have seemingly devolved from the Galactic Civil War despite being 30 years later?

You can go on and on but the point is they tell us that despite being shattered and crushed the Imperial remnants were able to create a military even more advanced than the Galactic Empire’s, while the Rebel Alliance decided to disarm and decomission the majority of their military and became either so incompetent or so uncaring that they completely ignore a militant force of ex-Imperials building a fighting force on their borders made up of kidnapped Republic children. All the while the First Order manages to create a planet sized super weapon, an entire naval force of top of the line new ships, a brand new Stormtrooper Corps with brand new weapons and armor, and a Star Destroyer so large it eclipsed the size of even Executor-class star dreadnoughts of the Empire, all in a span of 30 years.

The new trilogy wanted to give us the same feeling the original trilogy gave us. A story of underdogs who beat the odds and destroyed an immensely powerful regime who is supposed to be the poster child of oppressive governments. But the problem was the OT left us with the good guys in charge and the bad guys defeated. So they had to come up with a way to have the bad guys be a credible threat while making the good guys the underdogs. Which is fine and doable. Until you add the caveat that it has to be within a span of 40 years that this switch from being in charge to being the underdogs happens so you can have fan favorites like Luke, Han, Leia, and Chewie still be there. While you could create a believable reason for this switch to happen in such a short period of time I’m sure, they chose to give us a half hearted reason for the switch that falls apart under scrutiny. The New Republics decisions defy logic as do the First Order’s capabilities and, frankly, existence.

I think the trilogy should have taken place a long time before or a long time after the previous trilogies. You have less chance of causing the amount of division this movie made in the community if you make your story in a time period far enough away from previously established canon and films that you can have an underdog story that makes more sense then what they gave us.

(Well that was longer then I expected it to be. Sorry about any rambling or points repeated. I have the flu so I don’t really feel like reading back and correcting it right now. Also, I hope I don’t sound like I’m just complaining about the movie for no reason. I’m trying to explain the issues I have with what I consider flaws in the film in a clear and concise way that makes sense. I’m not sure how well I’m doing, but I’m trying.)


#652

I was thinking about adding this to my previous novel sized post but I figured that was long enough as it is. So forgive me for double posting (and rather long posts at that).

I want to make it clear that I don’t think people can’t or shouldn’t enjoy The Last Jedi. Just because I don’t consider it to be a good movie doesn’t mean I can’t see where others might enjoy it. If you like it thats fine, if you hate it thats also fine. Debate it flaws and merits to your hearts content. But realize that the people in this thread are fans of the series in one way or another. Whether they liked the movie or not. We all have our reasoning for liking or disliking something. So please, try to keep this thread respectful. I really have enjoyed the talks I’ve had with the people on here. Even the debates have been enjoyable.

I just wanted to let you all know that this thread is one of the last places I really do enjoy posting on with regards to the forum and I really want it to stay a place where we can talk, have fun, debate, and talk about a series we all care for. I guess thats all. Have a wonderful day (or night).


#653

Yo what up it’s your boy William here with his own hot take on The Last Jedi, hit that opening crawl Scotty, let’s jam

STARRRRRRRRR WARS, DA DA DA STAAAAAAAAAAR WARS DA DA DA STAAAAAAAAAAR WARS, DA DA DA LUUUUUUUUUUUUUKE

Opening Crawl, Baby:

AFTER THE DESTRUCTION OF THEIR HOME, THE NEW REPUBLIC SCRAMBLES TO RE-CONSTITUTE ITSELF AMIDST THE CHAOS. ADMIRAL HOLDO, A WAR HERO FROM THE DISSOLUTION OF THE EMPIRE, COMMISSIONS A PRIVATE ESCORT (HELMED BY THE INDUSTRIOUS CAPTAIN POE) FROM THE RESISTANCE, STILL CELEBRATING THEIR VICTORY OVER THE EVIL FIRST ORDER. THE FIRST ORDER IS NOT SO EASILY DEFEATED, DASHING FROM ONE SYSTEM TO THE NEXT IN A RUSH TO ACQUIRE THROUGH INTIMIDATION THE RESOURCES NEEDED TO SUSTAIN THEIR BLOATED FLEET. THEIR MAD DOG, KYLO REN, IS GIVEN A SPECIAL MISSION: TO INFILTRATE THE RESISTANCE AS A RADAR TECHNICIAN AND LEARN THE LOCATION OF REY OF JAKKU, WHO WILL LEAD HIM STRAIGHT TO THE LEGENDARY LUKE SKYWALKER.

So we cut between:

Poe, BB8, and Holdo, who must travel through contested space to reach the new central planet of the New Republic in time for Holdo to campaign for chancellor. Her hardline stance against hostile action (i.e. against the First Order) is what the Resistance needs to finally route the First Order and destroy it. Unfortunately, as Poe and Holdo get to know each other while fighting off First Order raids, slaver ships, and eldritch abominations, Poe realises that her views may also extend to the resistance and must either convince her to take a more nuanced approach to non-governmental military force … or “accidentally” hand her over to the First Order.

Kylo Ren, Rose, Leia, and Finn. Kylo and Rose are First Order spies sent to pretend to help prepare the Resistance for a huge offensive on the First Order, who currently have most of their fleet parked on a mining planet while they subjugate the local populace into refuelling them. Rose finds the unconscious Finn and is kind of enamoured with him, as he is touted as a legendary war hero which she respects even though he’s “on the other team”. Leia tells her that he’s an example of the transformative nature of good and how evil can always be turned away from darkness, because he used to be a storm trooper! Rose immediately tries to kill him (because he would be able to recognise Kylo Ren and then the mission’s a bust). Leia stops her, thinking that Rose is still prejudiced against “evil”. Rose and Kylo Ren discuss in secret and decide to wake up Poe but pretend that Kylo Ren has also turned and needs to find Rey and Luke Skywalker to make amends and gather energy to face Snoke.

Rey and Chewbacca arrive at Luke Skywalker’s island to find that he has actually been training Jedi for the last 20 years! Luke himself displays none of the powers of a Jedi and doesn’t even wield his old lightsaber in training, preferring a walking stick like Yoda. Rey wants him to send his pupils in combat against the First Order and he is understandably quite resistant to that idea. His primary concern, surprisingly, is that he doesn’t want his pupils to be exposed to the Snoke (i.e. the Dark Side) and be seduced and turned like Ben Solo. He’ll train Rey, sure, but under the oath that she stay on the island until her training is finished, in twenty years. She agrees, blatantly lying to his face, because she fully intends not just to leave but also to recruit a few of his pupils to take with her.

That takes us to about a third through the movie, probably.

Where do you reckon it goes from there?

How do we merge these storylines into one for the climactic showdown and mash all these fun characters together like action figures?

Find out next time!


#654

I thought this new video sums up things very well, including why we should be hopeful that Disney can turn the negative things around…


#655

wont get in to spoilers but biggest issue i had was them trying to please every one
just felt lot of the stuff was forced or missing parts


#656

I’d disagree with the generations argument in the video. If you go rewatch original trilogy, in comparison to it the prequels clearly lowered the age of presumably targeted demographic, losing the over-arching serious element to it. Otherwise not bad summary.


#657

I think that’s because they were appealing to a 90’s generation over that of a 70’s one, the kids of which would perceive things differently. Ultimately I think George just wanted to have a comedy character to replicate how C3-PO and R2-D2 had occasionally been with Jar Jar but it didn’t work as planned. Honestly though I think the prequels hold up ok outside him and some cringey romance dialogue in AOTC… but since I grew up with the Prequels I come from a specific group of fans.


#659

So apparently Episode 9’s title might be Balance Of The Force.

…sounds about right. :thinking:


#660

At this point I have to ask, what even is balance of the force? Wasn’t that Anakin’s destiny?


#661

Presumably the idea that the Force can only truly be understood and mastered if you recognise both the light and dark side equally…

… and no doubt more excuses for cringing KyloRey ‘I hate you but I love you’ nonsense. I do love the sequel trilogy but god darn it the romances are bad. Give me Anakin and Padme anytime over Rey and Ben or Finn and Rose.


#662

Chants
Revan. Revan. Revan. Revan.


#663

I hated that whole, bring balance to the force prophecy, esspecially, that there is no prophecy at all! We don’t know from here it is, from when, from who, we don’t even know what is even in it, it was only mentioned, never revealed. So for me it was just a lazy plot excuse to move on. Because what else was it?

where did you see there a romance, I merely saw there a moment of connection and understanding. Not every form of connection between a man and a women has to be a romance, so I wouldn’t interpret it as such.


#664

The fact we have shirtless Kylo and Rey’s apparent need to save him despite hating him for killing Han kinda says that they’re going to end up together… maybe. I will say that Last Jedi has made it difficult to know how the core Skywalker Saga will end.


#665

All shall know, Revan was the best thing that ever happend to the star wars universe! They should made the movies about him! and not make him non-cannon :rage:


#666

I think the Game of Thrones writers trilogy is gonna be a Old Republic/Sith Wars kinda thing, personally. Whilst Rian is gonna want to do his take on Star Wars Legacy and show what the fallout of Rey and Kylo’s actions will be.

Also the only thing I want back now… Mara Jade.


#667

Think you forgeting the Jedi Exile, Jolee Bindo and alot more Grey Jedi, including one potentially Qui Gon Jinn.


#668

I don’t, is just that Revan is my top boi :ok_hand:


#669

In my opinion, if Star Wars were to do a Revan story, 3 movies alone isn’t enough to cover all of the details, the planets that Revan went to as a leader during the Mandalorian Wars, his turn to the Sith Side by the Emperor in the Outer Rims (Not Palpatine, mind you but more like Darth Vitate) then the whole Jedi Civil War that we saw in the Knights of the Old Republic.

All of this would be better fit into an tv show that would get massive budgeting. Also would make one hell of a TV show plot for the viewers that does not know who Revan was. (That scene where Darth Malak reveals that the PC was Revan the entire time then we have a Force vision of us revealing our faces after taking off the Revan mask? Big OOF and it would easily be considered one of the most iconic TV scenes.)


#670

The thing is, you (those producers) going to need to do a lot of red herrings…which will be a hassle for sure.


#671

Any Emperor Vitiate fans?