Star Wars


#549

AHH I had a whole response typed up and the forum ate it. I copied and pasted it back and now it won’t let me because it’s “too similar” to what I just posted. I hope complaining here for a second will get me past the stupid forum filter. Sorry!

I agree his character arc is weaker for not having more shown to us of the events in question. I don’t have time to obsessively rewatch movies like I did as a kid so I’m going off my tattered memory. It’s not really clear what Ben was doing that made Luke suspicious.

Maybe he felt Snoke’s influence, or maybe Ben was already planning something with his Knights of Ren (which I have to ask, who tf are they? Another stupid JJ mystery box that had no answer like Snoke and Rey’s heritage?). TFA was not very clear about what naughtiness Ben Solo was up to exactly, and I don’t recall either Luke or Ben explaining it to Rey in TLJ. Which is not surprising, Luke didn’t want to talk to her and Ben is trying to present himself as reasonable and totally justified.

I’m happy to quibble about the execution but I did like the overall artistic choice they (Rian?) made with Luke. But I also like a little bit darker takes on Star Wars, like this and KOTOR2. I’m happy we got a Luke who can’t live up to his heroic reputation and fled, and I think it makes an interesting parallel with Yoda who is another failed Jedi Master (sorry lil green man, I still love you) who retired in disgrace. I like that they are just fallible people whose mistakes can be orders of magnitude worse than your average person’s because of super powers.

It’s possible that I and the general fan base diverge on the subject, and I suspect another director isn’t likely to be allowed to make story choices like that in a flagship property. We might have our Rogue One side properties where there is a tragic story arc, but after the fan backlash I think Star Wars will probably stick to safe heroic fantasy going forward.


#550

Pretty solid argument there


#551

I thought it was okay, didn’t dislike it.


#552

It was never explained beyond he senses some darkness and it scared him apparently. That’s as far as the movie explains.

Without the context it’s jarring. For all we know Ben was a trouble maker as a Jedi or someone who displayed a lot of anger or who disagreed with the teachings etc.


#553

As soon as Episode 9 is out we are guaranteed to start getting a lot more expansions into the time between ROTJ and TFA, especially in regards to Luke, Ben and Snoke. I suspect those will answer any questions that IX doesn’t.


#554

Maybe, but I think Disney is destroying the Star-Wars franchise.


#555

I did want Snoke to be Darth Plagueis - which would made him the overarching influence across all three trilogies and better establishing him as this haunting and seemingly ancient being of immense power, making his final death all the more dramatic.

But then again would it have made sense for Snoke to go into exposition about his origins?


#556

Oh that would have been neat! I’d have loved that as a twist.

It might not have made sense for Snoke to go into exposition unprompted, but they could been discovered, or partially discovered, by someone else. It would have been a neat way to tie the trilogies together as well. I’m hoping we still learn a bit something more about him in the next movie.


#557

My current theory is that Richard E Grant and Matt Smith are playing younger clones of both Snoke and Palpatine in IX, or possibly playing them via a flashback. Might be wrong but it’s always possible…


#558

If TLJ is any indication getting hyped on fan theories is doomed to disappoint, as cool as it would be to see Matt Smith play a younger Palpatine.


#559

Is anyone here happy or content with Snoke being seemingly killed off without his story explained? Was it necessary to give him a backstory outside of the hype surrounding his character since TFA?


#560

I didn’t mind his being killed off, but it frustrates me that he was so effective and powerful, yet we know nothing about him.

We should have learned something about his rise to power, but he really just served as a ‘mysterious evil plot device’.


#561

I see and how would you have felt if they did explain Snoke but he turned out to be a completely new character unrelated to popularly theorised candidates such as Darth Plagueis or Vititate?

He stated to have witnessed both the rise and fall of the galactic empire thus was present somewhere during both the original and prequel trilogies, would it have made sense or been acceptable if he was someone fans had never heard of?


#562

Personally, no, but I think it’s important to understand why that happened.

Basically JJ Abrams likes to insert mysteries to stimulate speculation when he has absolutely no plan or idea how it should resolve (speaking as a bitter Lost fan, :laughing:). Seriously, watch his mystery box ted talk. Or read a summary if video isn’t your thing.

So it did annoy the shit out of me but I don’t blame Rian for picking resolutions that fit the film he wanted to make. I enjoyed the Luke/Rey plot with the themes of not living up to your own ideals and reputation (Luke), and being disappointed in your heroes and becoming your own hero (Rey), that I am willing to overlook him shrugging off plot points he wasn’t interested in.

Maybe he should have punted the resolution to the third film, but on the other hand the Rey/Ben/Snoke fight was awesome enough that I just don’t care that Snoke got murked with no backstory revelation. I’m only really interested in Snoke insofar as his influence over Ben Solo. I couldn’t care less about Snoke himself :woman_shrugging:

This is literally all JJ ever created him to be. His whole point about mystery boxes is never opening them and he thinks this is awesome writing.


#563

i really dont like it, they shit on the lore then made the entire movie a comedy instead of a star wars movie. i wouldn’t mind rey being powerful if there was a real reason for it and she actually has a flaw to overcome instead she is just a super human perfect in almost every way and have no real problems. i do however like luke. the movie would probably be good as a new ip but not a good star wars film but if we par it up with all the lore from all the movies series and comics and books its just trash. tho i will say i dont get why people are bullying the actors they read a scriped and followed instructions they didn’t write the script or greenlight it for production its not their fault the movie was bad.


#564

I recently read somewhere that claimed Rian Johnson actually wrote the first draft of TLJ before TFA even came out.

Has anyone else heard about this?


#565

I don’t really get that complaint, she is shown to be a good fighter on Jakku and when she picks up force skills it’s usually copying someone else. At least in TFA. In TLJ Luke is busy being a depressed jerk and won’t teach her, so she seems to be learning from her connection to Ben Solo and from the Force itself.

I mean, Luke spent two weeks being trained in a swamp by a muppet, failed his test in the force cave and bailed on his training, and everyone still gets him out there Jedi flipping and lightsabering it up in ROTJ.

Do we really need a Rocky montage before we can accept that the protagonist of the trilogy is allowed to be OP? I’m fine accepting that a wizard the Force did it.

Also, Star Wars has always had comedic elements, so I’m not sure if the complaint is just that the humor this time didn’t appeal to you?


Going by this account that seems true? I’m not surprised with how long they take to make and the desire to have a shorter release schedule.


#566

[raises hand]

Like I said somewhere above, he was shaping up to be a generic Marvel big bad. He’d never have been Vader caliber, or even Palpatine. The most interesting thing they could do with him, it turned out, was cut him unexpectedly from the plot in a way that thrust Rey and Kylo into the spotlight. I loved it.

And I’d have been terribly disappointed if they’d tried to rope in the prequels by making him Darth Plagueis. Worst name ever, for one thing.


#567

I thought it was an odd choice to have a trilogy written by three different directors in the first place. Especially without an overall arching plot.

To find out RJ wrote the first draft before TFA showed how little he cared about creating a coherent linked story. Its why threads JJA set up in TFA went nowhere and will require retcons in EP9 if he wants to continue his own threads.


#568

I 100% agree I would rather have him be some no name dark sider than end up being Palpatine’s master who secretly survived. Mostly because I really like Palpy as an evil Sith mastermind and a last minute reveal that he got played would bore me if he’s not around to find out and react.

I would have liked some exploration of Snoke’s dynamic with Ben, not necessarily his own story, but what did he offer this kid? What did he tell him about Vader that made Ben think dropping out of Jedi school and joining a fascist movement was a good idea? Luke triggered Ben’s official break with the Jedi by drawing his lightsaber, but what tomfoolery prompted him to do that?

It is one of the weak points of the trilogy IMO that we don’t see Luke in his prime as a teacher, or baby Ben struggling with living up to his galactically famous family.

Anyway. I feel like people are disappointed we didn’t get the EU novel version of Luke, where he learns from his mistakes and never backslides and never irretrievably fucks up. I’m glad we got the Luke we ended up with in TLJ, although it means I’m going to be bickering with fellow fans for the rest of forever.

This is a huge franchise that takes a lot of special effects work on top of the filming schedule, there is no way they could release a huge Star Wars blockbuster every other year if they had to wait for each one to release in theaters before starting to even draft the next one. The first draft of the shooting script wasn’t complete until a couple months after TFA released, if that matters.

And I really don’t mean to be a total hater but the threads JJ set up in TFA were never going to go anywhere, because they never do, because he doesn’t care about letting fans see the solution. He only likes the mystery and then he moves on to the next thing. I don’t hate him as a director but I extremely lower my expectations anytime he’s attached to something. I learned the hard way after getting really into his work and being let down repeatedly. Whereas Rian, I have enjoyed his work between his episodes on Breaking Bad and his film Looper, so I’m willing to cut a little slack when he takes a risk that doesn’t pan out.

I don’t think the films weren’t connected. It’s just that JJ left the questions for Rian to answer, and Rian picked answers that fit with his artistic sensibility. I happen to really like them (especially Rey being just some random girl. I would have been pissed if she was secretly Rey Kenobi-Skywalker. It was one of my pet peeves in the EU that important things only seemed to happen to the Skywalker clan and nobody else.)