Star Wars


#529

I’m not mad it’s just that

3-1


#530

Samuel Hieronymous Young (I don’t know what the H stands for so I filled in the blank), you have written at least half a million words of Choice games alone. If you have opinions to share, don’t let a video say them for you. Write ‘em out!


#531

More like a million words if you count my WIPs. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

I’d give The Last Jedi an A-, and it’s one of my favorites in the franchise. The things that really stood out to me were the great acting from everyone; the amazing battle between Rey and Kylo and Snoke’s gaurds; the breathtaking hyperspace ramming scene; and the brilliant dialogue/development/arcs that Rey and Kylo had together. Most of the other stuff was good, too.

I had a few problems with it, of course. Poe should have been punished for his mutiny, and most of the chase scene with Rose and Finn felt like padding, though I do agree with the ideas they were going for (anti war and anti animal racing).


#532

I enjoyed The Last Jedi. A lot. It has some really iconic scenes, and good action sequences, and the return of puppet Yoda was amazing, but it does still have some problems with it. The casino section feels shoved in just to give Finn and Rose a purpose in this film, but I think the main problem with it is its story. Star Wars has a massive fanbase, and The Force Awakens was a great start, giving the fans tons of unanswered questions, but the story told by The Last Jedi just felt a little… Unsatisfying. Like how we never get a hint at Snoke’s identity, and that we saw Luke as a frightened old man, not an all-powerful Jedi Master. Hopefully Episode 9 will tidy this up and placate some of the more… intense fans

Also The Lightsabers looked fantastic


#533

#534

Two of the best things about the movie. :slight_smile:


#535

I mean, at least having Luke as a Jedi who lost hope is acceptable, considering how the books initially portrayed him when he first attempted to bring back the Jedi.


#536

Star Wars is going downhill.


#537

Totally agree. They turned his character 180 compared to the original movies.

This is the Luke we al needed but not the one Disney thought we deserved. It’s intresting how luke wants to save a man that has killed thousands and almost been corruptedby the dark side. Yet wants to kill his nephew who never killed anyone before he became a sith
Here a little nostalgia from the god old days.


#538

@ReverseFlash nailed it. I mean, Hamill himself talked about how nonsensical they were with his character in this one before the studio came down on him like a terentatek. And he’d kinda be the authority on something like that by this point.

I don’t know if I said this before, but the ongoing chase scene is hilarious to me. It’s like someone said “I want to marry the long, drawn-out pursuit of Fury Road with the slow, meandering pace of O.J. Simpson’s Ford Bronco highway chase. You know, Fury Road without the fun.” And of course it’s all deadly serious and no one can escape until Rose and Finn do to enjoy easily the most inane subplot in Star Wars history. Poor Benicio tries hard, too (and I hope the otherwise inexplicable lack of any closure for him means he pops up again) but it’s just so tonally jarring and loooong.

I appreciate the movie for taking more chances than its predecessor. But that’s what makes taking chances risky. Sometimes you fail.

In the end, it’s a five-star film. Only problem is, we’re talking on a scale of one to ten. And I’d group it somewhere around Attack of the Clones in the order of series quality. Worlds behind New Hope and Empire, a fair bit behind RotJ and RotS. Narrowly edges out Awakens. Still more cohesive than Phantom. But for all the talk of this movie being an Empire equivalent, ultimately Clones was definitely the one it felt closest to spiritually: a movie that will ultimately be known for a handful of excellent scenes struggling to stay afloat amidst questionable storytelling, some indefensibly awkward writing, and just dragged down by general bloat.


#539

Tastes vary. I’ll stick with ranking it #1, and the fantastic characterization of Luke is a core reason.


#540

Well at least in my opinion TLJ is not worse than PM and ATOC. Those are just unbearable. I would rank it as the third worst movie of them all

And so I rate it with a face of disdain.

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#541

Perhaps it was my nostalgia that made TLJ difficult to enjoy. The original heroes are gone - Han, Luke and Leia and I should have braced for such an inevitability. But for some reason the only next-gen character I like and care about is Kylo Ren, the other’s are okay but it never feels like they can hold the same weight as the original trio. I know such is an unfair expectation - its my bias, my childhood, my image of Star Wars comprised of the Original and Prequel trilogies.

Kylo is cool and conflicted but he’s also the last Skywalker which is likely the chief reason why he’s the only Sequel era character I feel emotionally invested in, the last remaining living legacy of that nostalgia. And I’m 70% certain he’s going to die but retain a 30% hope that he might pull a Light Side Arcann to be both redeemed and get to live on.

It was my bias and expectations that ruined TLJ for me, I had hoped to see Luke in action and pull of spectacular Force feats but saw the living legend reduced to a jaded hermit. A reminder he was far from infallible and suffering the bleak consequences of a morally questionable decision.
It was wrong for me to expect he’d just pop back into action powerful as ever, not when TFA had already established how he had been missing for so long and never intervened in the war between the First Order and Resistance, meaning he either didn’t care or was powerless to stop it like he did before n RotJ.

I do wonder why Anakin’s Force Ghost never confronted Kylo while Yoda’s is still around to guide Luke. Nostalgia again but I do wish he returned to advice his grandson whose quite similar to how he once was.


#542

If you think the characterisation of Luke was fantastic in TLJ would you mind explaining how a person who believes a person who has committed the atrocities that Darth Vader has done is able to be saved but a person who has done nothing bad only express an interest in his grandfather deserves instant death (regardless of whether he tried to change his mind).

That is something that no matter how hard I try I cannot make sense of. So as someone who liked this could you please explain how that makes sense to you?

The closest to sense I’ve heard it explained was a theory a friend said. About a combination of the fear of not being good enough to restart the Jedi, the fear of someone turning his pupils to the dark side. Combined with subtle nudges by snoke. I know he was messing with Ben which is where his lure of the dark side begins but my.friend said What if Snoke was nudging Luke as well.


#543

I said my piece upthread. Here’s my take, spread out over a few posts:

Nothing to add to that, if you don’t find it plausible. Except perhaps to note that Luke does also get to be badass, in his final fight, in a way consistent with the best Jedi values. He doesn’t end the movie a grumpy, despairing hermit. He completes his arc from the kid who couldn’t understand Obi Wan’s sacrifice to a man truly ready to emulate it (not the almost-ready-but-who-will-save-my-sister of RotJ).

I hope movie 3 doesn’t redeem Kylo. He got his shot at redemption in TLJ and explicitly turned it down for power. I’d rather the rest of the story explored the consequences of that decision instead of reversing them. Let the fallen Skywalker fall; don’t redeem him just because he’s a Skywalker.


#544

lol I couldn’t of worded it any better, one thing that amused me is how determined the story was to tell itself very specifically but ignore stuff when its convenient. (not a few times mind you but consistently over the story. and im not defending other star wars movies that do it, i criticized them too) Its a shame too since the actors and special effects people did amazing but the writing is just so… yikes.

Also just like the prequels supplemental material should NOT have to fix a movies story. That material should build off of the movie which should stand on its own.


#545

Well said. I may not in general like what they did with Luke (though I totally respect and understand your opinion otherwise, but this aspect of it is well stated. I hadn’t compared his sacrifice at the end to Obi Wan’s and Luke’s initial reaction and I think it is a nice book end.


#546

Thank you for explaining I must have missed that post. Personally I think one of the reasons I find it difficult to accept is partly the suddenness of it. It is like if the PT went straight from Kid Anakin to Darth Vader. He goes from believing a man who has killed many Jedi can be saved to drawing his lightsaber to kill his nephew because of a bit of darkside in him. The sudden switch is jarring for me.

I hope they release a book that chronicles that time. For me it needs more context. If not a book I hope ep9 shines some more light on the fall of the new Jedi temple.


#547

I want to hop on the Luke characterization train as well. In the Original Trilogy, Luke is very much an impulsive young man who acts first and thinks later. He runs around shooting womp rats pretending to be at war. He’s jealous of his friend who has joined the rebellion and chafes at being stuck on a remote planet with no action going on.

When he watches his mentor die, he loses his entire tiny mind and starts firing shots instead of sticking to the escape quietly plan (which is what tips off Leia that they were allowed to escape - Luke blew it in a big way but they still got out). He loses to Vader in ESB because Vader successfully baits him into anger and carelessness. Yoda calls him out on this too (tells him to leave his weapon behind when going into the force cave, telling him that chasing after Vader to fight will just play into his plans).

Like did we all forget that Luke’s big warning in ESB was that he is dangerously close to following his dad’s footsteps? Anakin “I got super pissed and killed a bunch of children because I was afraid my wife might die” Skywalker? Anger issues run in that family, it’s canon.

In ROTJ, he again loses his cool when Vader threatens Leia. He rages and fights in a big sloppy way because he lost his temper. Vader beats him handily, the Emperor has time to electrify him, and the only reason Palpatine bites it is because Luke begs Vader, as his father, for help.

Like, I love Luke. Adore that boy. I want to hug Mark Hamill and tell him he has done great work that meant a lot to me and many other people. But it’s not out of character for Luke, in a moment of weakness, to draw his lightsaber on someone first and then think “Maybe this is a bad idea” second.

I really liked Rian’s directing work on Breaking Bad (a story about a man who gets addicted to power and acting badass and it ruins his life) and he brought a similar treatment to Luke in Star Wars. It’s fair that people don’t like it, maybe people would have preferred wise old Zen Master Super OP Luke, but saying it’s not in character is a misreading of Luke from the OT. In my humble opinion. TLJ is not saying that Luke is a bad person, or not a hero. It’s saying that heroes and good people can go off half cocked and make mistakes.


#548

He is prone to anger yes but there is always a point to it. Ben as far as we know has done nothing to be bad. Just an interest in his grandfather. Luke feels he can save Vader despite all he has done. Ben has done nothing at that point so to me it is unbelievable that Luke would suddenly draw a lightsaber on his nephew. (Unless like I said earlier that Snoke is pulling on his strings too which makes more sense. I even considered that mirror pit thing that Rey is in was full of dark side energy and that might have affected Luke but then remembered Achto wasn’t where the new Jedi temple was afaik)

The biggest issue imo as the gap between ROTJ and TFA we never get to see how his efforts to rebuild the Jedi went. There is a lot we don’t know which might explain things clearer might make more sense in context.