CJW’s saving plugin uses a modded CScript. Publishing it may cause issues, especially when it comes to future updates and, potentially, the development pipeline of CS itself.
I am totally against them It will make games inconsequential and could directly turn lineal as no single reader will read anything else than The PERFECT choice that comes from read a online guide. Sometimes i asking myself why people bothering in read the game at all if they will follow a guide to have that PERFECT score whatever it was and reject anything else you could have written. Forgetting that in games sometimes better scenes are hidden in unexpected fails of scenes. And a book were all is perfect is boring as hell
Doesn’t that fall under personal taste, though? Even if there was a saving system, people who don’t want to use it could just… not use it. And people that do want to use can then do so. Such a system being there doesn’t keep you from enjoying a game the way you want to, but it might just make it a bit more enjoyable for other people who like to play differently.
I’ve seen people make the argument of “Oh but if there’s a save system right in front of me I just can’t help myself”, but that’s their personal problem, isn’t it? I don’t think it would be fair to “punish” people because some others can’t control themselves. The method of disabling/enabling the save system at the start of the game (as @saikiK suggested) would even help with that, I would assume.
Saying you don’t want there to be a save system because you don’t like how people use it sounds very “holier-than-thou” to me (“You need to play the game the way I want to, because my way is the right way”). Kinda similar to how often people who like to play games on higher difficulties shit on people who like to play on easy.
Would you say coding a save system is the bigger issue here as opposed to the ethics of having one? Or vice versa?
I’m admittedly on the side of saves myself, but I can understand if the coding for it is difficult and therefore hard to implement. However, I don’t really agree that it should be impeded because of what assumed criticism will be (like people asking for it to be included in older games, or it having limited save slots). Any change to a system is bound to have criticism, but it can be mitigated somewhat by having open discussions and explanations about the endeavor. I’m always really saddened to see this discussion stagnate, since I think saves really would enhance game play.
Haha, I see where you’re coming from! Since I play a lot of video games, and I play a lot of them blind, I’m also somewhat against doing things “perfectly” or “with a guide”. Though, at the same time, it’s not fair to those people who like to play that way. They paid for the game, they’re having fun as well, they just want the catharsis of having that perfect ending. As for me, I’m always a little bitter when I’m trying to get a certain achievement, only to find out that I have to replay an entire 3/4 of a 100k worded game because I made the wrong choice.
Especially since so many games and WiP have/will have many varied endings and many minute repercussions in each choice, having saves would overall benefit readers, and if you dislike it, you can choose not to use it.
If There is a save system games will be changed forever. Will become linear with many choices being GAME OVER . Why? because people will restart anything that is a failure will be restarted so writers will ended writing linear games with one of two branches like virtual novels. That will destroy cog forever. If people want so desperately cheat they could read code
Another possible suggestion is if the author implemented an internal checkpoint system, kind of like the one in Donor. But I assume that requires more work for the author and would fall down to their personal tastes.
That still fall on the player choice though . And it isn’t really a good reason .
Its like if I decide to play with CHEATS CODES and enable GOD MODE. My game, My way, if enjoyement is killed? My responsability . Once a game is purchased, Besetha for exemple cant come and tell me ‘What the hell are you doing ?! You enabled the damn console codes and you are flying?! You cant do that!’’ .
Take me for exemple, I dont need a save system to get the PERFECT ENDING lol . I dont need to reload, I always get it lol . My mc rarely dies…
The real argument here, isn’t IF IT WILL MAKE STUFF LINEAR or not…
It isn’t about making peoples lazy cose they wont start over and try a new branches . Peoples forget : ITS YOur responsability down the line .
But the real argument is: Respect the reasons given above by @Mary_Duffy , dont say ‘Oh it could be a toggle! on and off!’ easy!’’ .
Maybe one day, they think about it and make it happen . Far far in the futur . But for now, play it like its supposed to be and respect the decision . If you love said games as much as me, then heck…you can be patient, you can get over it, you can just play these games as they are mean to be played .
Maybe one day they never do it . Maybe it’s too much, maybe it’s just not something they want added .
I personally use The save/Load in WIP, but…I always get the itch to make a new mc and try something else . So it’s pretty useless to me .
I’ve thought this before too, but to keep pushing it back and delaying it forever to the future is what causes this discussion to stagnate indefinitely. Plus, there’s no harm in talking about the pros and cons, I want to hear both sides of this argument.
I play a lot of visual novels, a lot of rpg, and so I’m absolutely skewed to wanting saves. I don’t think it breaks the narrative, and for the most part, having saves just saves time for when I make a blunder or when I realize that I’m heading towards an ending/result I don’t want.
Failing and succeeding isn’t all there is to it. Like even if you’re just chosing options that fit your character’s personality, there is no right or wrong. Or choices that explore different ideas on how to handle a situation, and may or may not have lasting effects that come to play later in the game. I’d argue there’s still much replayability in that, and no danger of it becaming “linear”.
I am a role player Save games in If only have bring in my experience bad things. I play permanent death characters for me there is no right or wrong choices and deads could be great endings.
You play perma-death characters, not everyone else. All you need to do is not use the save system and let others play the way they want to while you play the way you want to.
Hey, this statement and a lot of what you said could come across as quite rude. Let’s keep conversation civil and kind, please, regardless of how we feel about the topic or the opinions of others.
@moderators I will not tolerate DIRECT insults against my person. Because i doesn’t sare THE POLITICAL correctness opinion of saves are the cure to humanity. I respect others and I understand why they want saves and I see why a company will want implemented them.
As I see people don’t want to hear anything different from their own opinions or civic discussion i will restrain of participate so this could become a monologue of why saves are wonderful.
Edit I will try explain my posture. I am NOT a gainst saves. I am against The Design changes Saves usually bring.
They allows a sloppy design were situations are GAME OVER RESTART that substitute the well crafted now fail scenes that show so wonderful moments of great quality and originality.
Many writers when there is a save system change the way branches handle making choices more flavour as considering player will restart if choices are considered not desirable that influence the designs to be more standard and videogamey
If cog design continue same I am pro Saves for people that wanted them.
My fear is save could bring a change like other rival companies lately
I’d like to disabuse people of these notions here. I’m removing the name of the original poster because it’s not my intent to focus on them as it is their points. I’ve seen this argument made before, and it’s, quite frankly, just not true.
People already restart games if they think they are going to an undesirable state. So having a save feature does nothing but save people the heartache of having to restart the entire thing over. I’ve seen people get upset and not finish really good games because there was no save feature. So a game that they were enjoying became frustrating. and as for writers being forced to write linearly… see the next point.
And there is nothing forcing any author to alter their story because saves were enabled. To say that enabling a save feature will destroy games because creators will start to write linearly is a logical fallacy. I’ve never seen an author on here state that a save system would ruin their writing. In fact, I’ve seen authors struggle to put in some kind of checkpoint system so that they can entice people to play.
tldr: The fact is people already restart games for multiple reasons, so there’s no reason that a save system would ruin a game. And as for the claims that it will forever ruin COGs, that’s just fearmongering.
Like the other user I do use Steam and Steam hacks in lieu of proper save games. As I’ve remarked on before on the Hosted Games on Steam thread if I had to play on a mobile device or more to the point a “smart” phone the games are nearly unplayable for me as I seem to tend to mis “swipe” and enter the wrong or at least an unintended choice a lot of the times.
While a part of that is no doubt down to me being clumsy and hamhanded with tiny touch screen phones I do believe it is highly frustrating to enter the choice you don’t want by mistake hours into or near the ending of a long game.
That being said I do appreciate @Mary_Duffy 's point that anything CoG may or may not choose to do about implementing save systems isn’t going to come quick or easy.
We should change the thread name to INSULT MARA THE THREAD. Like seriously @spunkycatninja do you think is mature doing a ENTIRE post where only point is disacredite me with negative wording and veiled insults and calling me names. ?
I will not flagging more posts as is stupid as the thread is a witch hunt as is made from beginning to just present a united front SAVE IS AWESOME AND ONLY TRUTH IS THE PURITY OF LOVE SAVING.
If save is implemented games become far popular and in general with time will become less and less quality and less and less literature to become virtual novels More games than writing.
I would love that remains the same with a cheat mode for people that wants have a determined result made a chapter selection or a password something.
But with stats and all customizations I think would turn complicated implementation that system. However i think saves will turn inevitable as most people love saves and save everywhere so eventually that will be added. And it will be a good economic choice as would make audiences grown to a more mainstream audiences. So saves will win at the end
I think that saves can be really useful, you can even make it so that certain achievements can only be achieved if you have saves disabled.
I don’t think that choice of games going mainstream is bad, I mean, it can only benefit the company and writers. They would get more money and more people will want to make their own games, and even if they’re bad, there would still be hidden gems there.
It will be good for company maybe not so much for quality as more games will be needed also it will turn more mainstream in theme and more political correctness to catering a more general audience. I don’t think that is bad and is inevitable.
However if the question is I like the idea? No I am tired of videogames being watered down to point there is no real rpgs anymore as games hold your hand and not make consequences matter. But i am a very grumpy woman with hard core unpopular opinions about gaming in general.
I removed your name because I’ve seen those very points you’ve brought up multiple times by others and not just you, and I wanted to address the points without you feeling attacked. There was a post a few up that was hostile in tone to you, and I wanted to avoid that, so I took your name off. As for the post itself, there was no veiled insults nor name-calling. I’m sorry if you felt there was.
I’m not so sure. I don’t think you have anything to worry about. People have been asking COG for a save system for years, and they haven’t budged from their stance despite the popularity of the requested feature. They’ve always had their reasons as to why they won’t do it: it’ll ruin the aesthetic of their interface; it’ll ruin the story as it’s meant to be told; they’d have to come up with a different one than dashingdon uses; etc.
It’s a bummer as I think it’d be more beneficial than anything, but it’s their system and company, and they’ll do what they think best.
The lack of saves does actively make me buy less COGs and Hosted. If I am not a 100 % sure that I will enjoy the game enough that multiple replays will be rewarding, I am not taking the chance. (The latest victim was Pon Para. I was unsure how the stat-class system worked and I did not want to get 2-3 into the game and find out that I screwed myself over, so I just skipped it.)
Also as I have said above, the lack of saves prevents me from roleplaying and doing anything, but sticking closely with my best stat. When I come to taking a risk in a hosted og cogs, I always judge the risk against, do I really want to risk having to start over? And the answer is usually no.
I have accepted far more negative consequences in Choice of rebels, because I know that I can start the chapter over than I have in any other COGs. In games without checkpoint/saves, I go - bad consequence time to start over.