Thanks for reading and thanks for your comment. I’m sorry to hear you didn’t like Chapter 3. I’m trying to give every chapter a slightly different feel and bring in different genres, to keep the story varied and stop it getting samey, but I guess a danger with that is that not every player will like every chapter! If it’s any encouragement to stick with it, Chapter 4 is going to be much more adventure movie-like again. But I do appreciate you taking the time to play through, really sorry you ended up disappointed.
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The problem isn’t the different feeling, but how it was done. The presentation and the gameplay were the problems. Let me explain bettter:
MC x Stone, how one was completely useless and how the other dominated the story.
Summary
If you remove the MC from this chapter, almost nothing would change because he didn’t accomplished anything.
Stone would be able to go to jail without the MC, she would be able to enter the deceased Voodoo Queen without the MC, she was the one who discovered the link between the boots and the factory, she knew that Elliot was illiterate before the MC can come up with it, she can take the goons down by herself, she could climb into the factory by herself, she wasn’t rescued by the MC when she was captured and didn’t need his help to leave the farm.
Not only the MC is enterely useless, the game likes to show how Stone is better and don’t need his help. Like when she says she knows how hot she is and says the MC isn’t bad but she had better, how she is a better archeologist, how she impressed you by climbing the drainpipe as fast as you, how she climbs the factory first and extend her hand to help you, or how when you fail any check she is the one to bail you, how the MC realizes that Sam would rather have Stone as a teacher instead of him and how the MC is dumb enough to go after O’Neal when it was obviously a trap and getting himself and sam captured.
The woman is without any flaw, she is good at everything.
And don’t try to disagree with her, because the game will tell you are wrong. Want to bring your gun to the factory? Too bad, the game says she is right and you have to leave your gun in the car, if you try she will threat you by calling “this whole thing of”, and you have to obey for reason… Even if you didn’t even wanted to be there you have to obey her all the times.
Or like the time you disagree with her that the South is just as worse as the Nazi Germany, she just cut you off without any chance to argument and later your character just happens to think how the South is just as worse as the Nazi Germany… So in the end she was right, again.
Hell even Sam is more useful than the MC, because she is the one who catch one of the goons who assulted you when the MC let him escape.
The gameplay is terrible if your build your character as a fighter.
Summary
The entire chapter penalize you for choosing to be good at Gunnery, because it let you use it only once (against a dog). If you try to choose to shoot at anything you will always fail and be remembered by Stone (who can’t fail btw) how of an idiot you are.
It was incredible frustrating when you fight O’Shea and discover all the skill you would use in a fight (Gunnery/Fistcuffs) were useless, specially Gunner(because for some reason the gun jammed when fighthing O’Shea, but it was fine against the dog and if you try to shoot him when he is on the water then it works fine again). The part where my MC should be able to do anything continued the streak of “how useless the MC is in this chapter”.
The game is trying to teach me something.
Summary
I get that the segregation law was bad, but I really don’t need the game to keep reminding me every three pages.
The protest against Stone, Stone saying the restaurant didn’t accept PoC, the guards arresting Elliot, the KKK, the internal monologues of the Mc, etc.
I’m not reading your game to learn about it, I’m reading because I wanted a nice distraction, if I wanted to learn about the segregation laws I can always look about it in the internet.
How dumb the villain was at the end.
Summary
Why would Beaumont just drink the potion all alone? How he didn’t think that maybe she would just poison him and made sure to have some leverage against her if she tried to betray him? Why would he just dismiss everyone so he could be poisoned all alone without anyone to help him?
The guy might not have been the smartest person in the world but not being able to think the voodoo woman might betray him is incredulous.
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Thanks again, you’ve given me a lot of things to think about, including stuff that hadn’t occurred to me before.
On Cleo being too central, I had wondered about that myself. The trouble is there are some parts of the game where “railroading” is needed - some connections that have to be made or obstacles overcome to progress the plot. I think I got too reliant on one solution, which was to let the MC have a go, and if they failed, let Cleo take over. I should look into some other solutions, and I will. But Cleo was always meant to be badass, and a sort of alter ego of the MC - they have similar interests, skills and lives. So she has to be highly capable; just as capable as the MC, I would say, because this story isn’t a Skyrim-style power fantasy and the MC doesn’t always have to be the only badass in the room! And I disagree that Cleo has no flaws. I tried to write her as arrogant and intolerant of people who have different beliefs from her concerning religion and the supernatural, which I consider flaws!
Fighter build: fighting skills were always going to be less useful in this chapter because it’s less action oriented. (And in fact you can use the close combat skill a couple of times, when fighting the guard(s) at the factory and when the goons confront you at the park). But fighter builds have had a bit of an advantage in the first two chapters, so I wanted to give people who focused on stuff like charm more of a chance to shine in Chapter 3. I agree that Gunplay is utterly useless in this chapter: I’ll take a look and see if I can find a way to give the gunners something!
Politics: I’m afraid that’s non-negotiable. This game is political to its bones, and was always conceived to be that way. I know that a lot of people just want to escape from real world issues when they read, which is fine and legit, but others like to be confronted with this stuff. This game is more for the latter group than the former.
Villain at the end: I had a world of trouble writing that scene, and I’m still not happy with it, so thanks for confirming that it has problems! Beaumont, of course, doesn’t actually know who Miss Frederick is at that point, so he’d have no particular reason to be especially suspicious of her, but maybe I should find a way to make him a little less trusting and more savvy. I’ll give it some thought.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, and for this super-detailed feedback. It’s a lot for me to reflect on, and I’m sure it’ll help me make Chapter 3 better.
EDIT - the gun seizes up in the O’Shea scene because you’ve just fallen into the swamp, which you hadn’t when you shoot the dog. And if you shoot O’Shea when he’s in the water, you do it with his shotgun, not your revolver.
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No but it’s a hard challenge, and you were unlucky. Athleticism 7 or above. Almost there but not quite!
That is the problem, she isn’t just as capable as the MC, she is better (even Sam would have her as a teacher instead of the MC). Is the MC that can be as capable of her in some areas, but she still excel in the areas where the MC don’t. My is good at Athleticism, Gunnery and Fistcuffs, she could do the same things as my character, byt he is bad at everything else and she is good in those areas.
Look at the other character, I can see some things that my character can do better than Sam, Esme, Zhul and Abdul, but I can’t see what woulde he do better than Stone.
In the previous chapter my Mc could do things that the others couldn’t, and the others helped him when he couldn’t. In this we are playing sidekicks to a woman who doesn’t really need us, in fact we drag her down sometimes ( a good example would be @No_This_Is_Patrick screenshot).
Is she really arrogant? She can actually back up what she says, she doesnt lie about being good at her skill, about being good looking or all the impressives feat she did, so how is she arrogant?
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My athleticism was to low, thats why I failed the stat check.
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Oh OK, I see the problem. Actually that makes a lot of sense.
Cleo’s coming back in Chapter 4, and I think you’re going to see some more of her weaknesses there (e.g. she makes a really, really bad judgement call really close to the start, and if you want you can have your MC spend the rest of the chapter making her feel bad about it!), but I think you’re right. I need to get some of her limitations on display earlier, back in Chapter 3, so people don’t think she’s literally perfect. I’ll look into it. Thanks for clarifying the problem!
(And for the record, the episode involving the screenshot is a bad example of Perfect Cleo Syndrome: the factory wall scene is one occasion where you actually can do something that she can’t, if you have a high enough skill. An Athletic MC can get over the wall on their own, but Cleo needs to be helped up by the MC once she’s boosted them from the ground!)
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I’ve posted a minor update, incorporating @PlumBeast’s suggestions.
I’ve already had a few ideas which I think will go a long way towards addressing the major problems with Chapter 3 identified by @Urban. But that’s going to take more time and more thought to implement. So the current timetable is to finish Chapter 4 (I’m almost there and have good momentum at the moment, so I want to keep riding that), and hopefully post it by the end of next week. Then I’ll pause before starting 5 and go back and try to fix 3 in line with Urban’s comments. Thanks everyone for the continuing feedback and guidance!
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Oh I definitely love this game, especially the references;
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Just updated with Chapter 4. A little over 200k now, 2/3 of the way there. Deets below.
Chapter 4: The River
The Belgian Congo, 1935. It’s high summer in the heart of Central Africa, in a land badly scarred by colonialism. Doc Spillane and Sam are visiting Cleo’s dig-site, deep in the jungle on the banks of the Kasai River. But plans soon change when Sam blunders onto a map to a lost city - and a lost city which our hero believes may contain a Relic of Power. But the Nazis are also scouring the jungle, and this time they may be several steps ahead. Join our intrepid gang on their wildest adventure yet, an epic, Heart of Darkness inspired journey upriver, where they will face the Waffen-SS, an indigenous people turned suddenly hostile to outsiders, and a colonial military unit gone decidedly bad.
And be warned. Not all of them may make it out alive …
Featuring the return of some old favourite baddies, the introduction of a new baddie, a bit where I try and fail to go all Sabres of Infinity, and your chance to seal the deal with Cleo Stone!
Content Warnings: This chapter deals with the history of Congo and, if you know about the history of Congo, you know that that means that it ain’t gonna be pretty. References to (but not depictions of) historical instances of torture, mutilation, rape and mass murder. Also, in the story itself, LOTS of juicy violence, and some swearing (though not as much as in other chapters, I’m trying to rein that in a bit). One pretty non-explicit and optional sex scene.
Super thanks to anyone who reads and feeds back. This one was tough going - looking forward to seeing what people think!
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You’re right, Definitely shouldn’t say that! Give me a second.
Think I’ve figured it. It shouldn’t do that now!
Goddamn it! Try now. (Sorry about this - you must have really made Cleo like you on your save!)
damn u caught me xD
but yes, it works now
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Phew! Thanks for spotting the bug.
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I haven’t had a chance to play in a while, but I’m super impressed by how quickly you’ve progressed and updated!!
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Wanna know my secret?
Sloppiness.