Polls about COG, HG, and IF games

Well, the thing is you want to feel angry at the situation/MC/you as a player. The author inserting a “you could have saved them if you tried harder” into the narration breaks that. You’re not immersed anymore. You’re annoyed/mad at the author. Try using another character, or offering choices for the MC to feel guilt. Immersive and meaningful.

10 Likes

The thing with the Zombie Exodus series is that the deaths that happen in those games aren’t forshadowed they’re sudden and unavoidable, you end up losing people that have actually useful skills. I’m pretty sure there wasn’t even a warning on the thread about the death of those characters originally until people kept asking if they could save them. So if the execution of the deaths is done well, like in the ZE series the player doesn’t need that prior-warning of a death. They may want it, but it if they did have it they wouldn’t be in the same headspace as their MC when it comes to the reacting of said death.

Major characters dropping like flies, unless its so show the seriousness of a situation (ie just before the end, facing the main villain, etc.) needs to be done with great care. There’s no magic formula by any means, so nobody’s ever going to get it right.

Minor characters, however, can drop heavily with little to no downsides.

2 Likes

I have somewhat mixed feelings on that, actually. I guess a lot of it boils down to two things; plot armor and being told how I should feel. It also heavily depends on the tone and genre of the story.

(this is going relatively far into Jayffel’s Opinion Zone, so take all this with many grains of salt please)

In general, if a minor character dies to something that a major character would have survived or vice versa - especially if it’s literally the same event (a bomb goes off and kills minor but not major), I’m going to be…well, upset is too strong a word, but I’m probably going to raise an eyebrow. If that happens regularly, it’s going to turn me off because it’s breaking my immersion, and ultimately is something I’ll find more annoying than anything. In fact, one of my favorite things is seeing a minor character survive an event that I would normally expect to kill them and bouncing back unexpectedly - a red shirt survives the prologue and saves the day, possibly even “graduating” to major status. Maybe I’m just sentimental like that. :slight_smile:

…I was going to talk about the “being told how I should feel” thing too, but I can’t seem to make a coherent paragraph about it, so I guess I’ll leave that one alone for now, haha. I guess the most basic thought I have is that killing of minor characters isn’t fundamentally wrong, but be careful of the difference between “this character isn’t important to the story” and “this character isn’t important to anyone”? I dunno.

3 Likes

Plot armor has always been something that’s irked me in different settings on occasion, be it in movies, TV or books. I mean you’re rooting for the hero’s (most of the time) and if they shrug off everything in their way like they’re taking a stroll among the daisies there’s no danger, no interest to grab hold of you. There needs to be stakes.

As for disposable characters it definitely works but changes depending on the setting. (More disposable characters for a war centred action etc.) you don’t want to overuse it though, I think finding a good balance and describing the situation well is key or after a while it feels a little tired I guess? Not sure how to describe it. I’ve seen it done before and in little bits and pieces of a story I’ve started writing (it’s awful :sweat_smile:) I try to humanise a disposable character to an extent, so they aren’t just the “faceless goons” trope for example.

I also like the idea of a red shirt character becoming more important after surviving overwhelming odds that match the hero’s skills, It’s fun to see. I think that makes them fit the mauve shirt trope unless I’m mistaken.

5 Likes

I think it really depends on the size of the game/world. I feel like if the world is big enough to support it, fixed gender RO’s is preferred, whereas, if its a smaller, more intimate story, flippable RO’s give you the ability to do that while keeping the smaller cast.

2 Likes

Hit the “other” option on almost all the questions in the second round, so some detail seemed in order.

This would depend on the tone of the story and the preferences of the author. Really, I’m fine with clean, explicit, fade-to-black, whatever, just as long as the ROs and the MC can form an actual connection.

I’m greedy, so the more ROs available the better, but I’m not against sexuality-locked ROs–unless the author has some clear favoritism going on. When favorites have better characterization, and when those characters are locked out as ROs to me…not a fan of that.

(Favoritism is annoyingly common in dating sims and otome games.)

No thanks. Not even old-school CYOA books would be so cruel, lol.

It has an impact for well-written characters. That said, if it’s done just for the sake of eliciting an emotional reaction and not because plot-consequences call for it, that’d feel cheap.

Voted “blank slate” here, but I like both at an almost equal level. It’s just harder for the second to be done well without it feeling railroad-y.

3 Likes

Poll about RO/Friends and NPC customization

Was having an interesting exchange with a member of the community and they pointed out that some mechanics could come off weird to some readers. And I agree. I know, the writer will never be able to satisfy all players but I just wanted some more insights to see what change I could make in my WIP.

I wanted to create a game where you can have for example your crew or the people you are interacting with, to be all females or all males or all non-binary or a mix of all three. Those are the options I am trying to give the player I think lol. But the idea is too still have the character background stories set and relevant to the game.

In the WIP (which is my attempt at writing a psychological thriller/mystery) the player can choose the gender, race, height, body frame, and even the first name of one of the 3 RO/friends.

RO1 Psychologist/Dr, Blanc: choose Male or female, race, height, body frame.
RO2 Lead detective Martinez choose Male or female, race, height, body frame.
RO3 Ex-coworker Last name set as Fisher choose Male or female,or non-binary, race, height, body frame and first name.

It sounds excessive I know, that is why I’m asking for inputs. lol

These do not have a big impact on the game, but I wanted to add them as an aesthetic purpose. See below the result of that customization option.

Furthermore, one of the RO/friends, the Lead Detective, reacts to the MC differently, whether you choose them to be a male or a female.

As of now, the female reactions are always welcoming to the MC and the male reactions are a bit grumpy…I know it sounds weird and bad lol… but that is why I’m asking if I should go that way or just set the personality trait as one for both of them… like lock both grumpy or lock both joyful.

Another thing on that, the Detective male version is going through a custody battle with his ex for his daughter. and the female version is going through a divorce… these mechanics have impacts on the game as…the mc will get the chance to discover an ethical issue if revealed could impact the life of either the female or male Detective…but I’m asking if it seemed like too much of a difference life-wise for the same character to have, just because their genders vary?

The second RO/friends which is the Psychologist, the female version is currently recovering from alcoholism, and the male version is a dog lover…same characters, just gender flippable with different life-quirks in their backstories. It impacts the story for dialogue purposes like MC get to pet dog or MC understand why the character will not drink…things like that…

One of the things that was brought up was… let’s say I manage to write and finish that WIP and get published…that readers might have a hard time discussing favorite RO/friends because of the personality differences…One reader might like Lucia Martinez because of her welcoming traits and one reader might like Luke Martinez because of his grumpyness lol… when they are supposed to be one person…so should I consider that being a big issues?

Again all this is for re-playability purpose…I just love being able to write a story with so many branches, for the player to discover something different every time they replay.

Last but not least, MC will get to meet an NPC that will be an assistant/rookie and you get to choose their gender…is that too much lol?

MC has a relative in the story…MC get to choose relative gender lol is that too much…sister/brother/sibling?

I’m giving you most of the spoilers lol so be it…

There are three main branches when you start the game, you can play either as:

Each of these branches has the same backstories for the player. The exception is one suffers from OCD, or one suffers from panic attacks…and so on.

So can that come off weird? noted that these specific mechanics are tied to the profession not the gender of the player.

All I can say is I really am enjoying writing this WIP because of the twisted endings I have in mind for it, I’m a big fan of everything mysteries, psychological and weird twist like the usual suspects, shutter island, the girl on the trains and more…but I also don’t want to write something that is going to turn off the players and I am now having second thoughts about this project lol.

Thanks in advance for voting.

    • Male/female RO/friend one will be joyful one will be grumpy
    • Male/female RO/friend lock personality either joyful or either grumpy

0 voters

  • Yes to NPC customization
  • No to NPC customization

0 voters

  • Yes to relatives customization
  • No to relatives customization

0 voters

    • Detective life quirks each gender life quirk different
    • Detective life quirk both gender life quirk should be the same

0 voters

    • Psychologist life quirks each gender life quirk different
    • Psychologist life quirk both gender life quirk should be the same

0 voters

  • Keep disorder tied to each profession
  • Removed disorder all together(knowing that insanity is part of MC backstory)
  • Allow the player to choose the disorder they want to go with for the purpose of the game?

0 voters

1 Like

I’d say I don’t have terribly strong opinions about most of those. I do think that in general it would be quite difficult to pull off changing a character’s personality based on their gender without accidentally suggesting or enforcing stereotypes, which I believe I saw someone else mention in the other thread. I’m generally not a fan of NPC/RO customization but don’t have anything really against it.

I do think that writing a character with a mental health disorder could be interesting, and writing different options could be even more so. But I also think you need to tread very carefully because, again, it’s easy to fall into the trap of enforcing stereotypes. I think it’s great that you’re excited to write it, but definitely do All The Research beforehand, and be willing to throw out most of the things you think you know (Especially if you learned it from movies, and double especially horror movies)

And this may just be me, but I feel that last poll teeters pretty close to suggesting that having a mental disorder is synonymous with being insane. I can’t speak for everybody here, but being someone who suffers from depression and anxiety myself, I think there’s a pretty big difference between that and being “insane”, which I would define as being completely out of touch with reality (which might not be a perfect definition either tbh). Again, look into the conditions, talk to some people who struggle with these things or know a lot about them, and so forth, so you don’t accidentally stumble into any offensive territory without meaning to (and accept that you almost definitely will, but it’s okay as long as you take it to heart and keep learning and improve!)

3 Likes

I think you’re making a mountain out of a mole hole. If the readers have a hard time discussing favorite ROs/friends then that’s squarely their business.

See reference to the poll I did awhile to survey what people would say, but all this effort that you’re aiming to put into just the aesthetic customization may or may not even register to most of your audience. Or maybe it will. Who knows?

I’ve said it before but in my experience, that’s going to break my immersion. I’d rather just have completely set NPCs and allow myself to enjoy the story w/o any more interruptions.

4 Likes

Thanks for replying, it is good to know about the immersion experience :slight_smile:

Point-By-Point Thoughts
  1. I like the gender choice selection because I’m a lesbian, so this means I could in theory play all the routes which is cool for me since it sounds like these RO routes are all going to be plot-relevant which is neat. I did write a whole less-subjective comparison on pros and cons of various gender options we see in choice games slightly above

  2. I am meh about height, body frame, and name. Like if you write a compelling enough female character her name could be idk…Egg and I would be find it endearing. It sounds like a lot of choices that I don’t really want to have to make, to be completely honest.

  3. Race is the only criteria I am like…gonna vote we take this one out.

  4. I am curious why the first two characters can only be male or female but the ex-coworker can be non-binary?

I am agreeing with the other concerns that this is characterizing gender based on stereotypes of gender rather than creating an actual character with motivations and responses based on their experiences.

Overall I am also going to suggest you try looking at the changes you are wanting to make based on gender and ask yourself “why would gender identity change this facet of who they are?” if you cannot come up with a compelling reason, it probably shouldn’t change based on character gender identity.

NPC and RO Customization Comments

Divorces often involve custody battles, so I’m just confused why you would make it different for the most part? Having kids in your life or not is also a pretty major character feature because its going to drastically change the character’s priorities and motivations in most cases.

I’m also voting against this, especially because these are not categorically equivalent. For example, with the divorce vs. custody there is an implication there that either custody for the children is already decided in the divorce variation or that the detective does not have kids at all so it is categorically similar in that it is a present hardship that will impact character motivations and experiences, but with slightly different flavors.

The Psychologist could always be both a dog-lover and an alcoholic. Arguably, all the characters should (in theory, not necessarily actually in the story’s text) have an opinion on things like cats vs. dogs and a relationship (or lack thereof) with alcohol.

I am much more on the “meh” side of these. I voted no on the NPC because again, choices I don’t really want to have to make. Especially without context for the characters because the only reason I would want to change the gender would be based on experiences I have to have with said character and the sub-set of experiences this applies to is already a pretty small pool.

I voted yes on the sibling because irl I have a little sister so it would be slightly more immersive, but again…meh. Its not a big deal to me.

I am less concerned about how I am going to discuss my favorite characters so much as I am uncertain what makes the character the same character at all if everything about them changes, though I suppose discussion problems would be a side effect of that.

Speculation on the viability of occupation-dependent mental health in different contexts

I voted for player autonomy because I am generally pro player autonomy and this could also make the experience more immersive if done well. I am uncertain what you mean by there is no disorder, but my guess is that you mean that there is not a pre-existing mental illness and it would only come about due to the experiences within the game.

Occupation-dependent mental health side effects could make sense in some contexts. For example, an intense investigative reporter or police detective may have developed PTSD due to traumatic experiences had during the course of their job. A criminal psychologist or investigative journalist might be more likely to maintain their job while suffering from more severe manifestations of certain disorders because you could avoid potentially triggering subjects whereas if you are a police detective severe manifestations might cause you unmanageable if not dangerous problems depending on what the symptoms are.

I note severity and specificity here because all of these are long-term careers that require education and experience and if the character is functioning well enough with to complete required education and training that is associated with these careers, they are probably coping well enough with whatever disorder they may have had to be able to succeed in any career they want with appropriate accommodations.

6 Likes

I prefer either set NPCs or gender variable NPCs that change with your sexuality. But if there is something I find annoying is having to choose a name for an NPC, unless it’s a pet or a baby. I’m sure there will be people who will find the customization fun, but personally, if I were to play a game and be asked, for each RO, their race, their height and all that I would just not play, because I want to get to the story, to the interactions.

If you want their appearance to be up to the reader then don’t describe them and let them imagine them however they want. I also do not like the idea of changing the personality of a character if you change their gender, what if I want to romance a certain character because they appeal to me, but I find out that if I change the gender to one that fits my sexuality it changes their personality? It would put me off. And I am speaking as someone who is bisexual, and may not even have this problem in the first place.

Branching paths don’t have to be tied to NPCs, in my opinion it is more fulfilling to link branching to story-based choices.

Of course, at the end of the day, it is your game and you can choose to write however you want, but those are my thoughts.

5 Likes

lol thanks for replying

Thanks for replying it was informative, most of the customization was to give the player choices lol…but I understand that most readers just want a good story and not be bothered with customization… I am glad I did the poll and so far I’m leaning toward…

Grumpy detective for both genders because I like angst and can give the player the chance to develop that partnership into friendship if the player wants or not (with the kid for both of them)

Eliminating the alcoholism for the Psychologist and just make them dog lovers because there is enough drama already in this WIP

Eliminating the disorder because it will not really impact the game, the game is about insanity and the players questioning themselves about if what they see are real or not…so I can play with insomnia and hallucinations and still get a good story and a twisted ending lol… any person can go insane with the right amount of trigger or environmental factors…and those will be established as the story progress…

The two first ROs are only male and female because it is my first time writing non-binary characters and I did not want to be overconfident and not being able to write them correctly, but there is a second non-binary character that can be romanced and you meet them even on chapter two so it sort of balance two non-binary and two binary.

The last thing is that I had that killer cover lol maybe now I need to take out some of the texts in it lol

Allright all ye horror lovers,readers

I need help for a setting for My Halloween jam
I would tell you the plot on why each setting is essential but wouldn’t that be spoiling?

First, A hotel… A place to relax but the problem is they want their visitors to relax forever

Secondly,an abandoned mental hospital…if you’re sane, I don’t see why you should be in a mental hospital but the creepy part is,the hospital is closed off so why are there doctors and patients roaming about

And finally a city where old gods reside and mortals have forgotten to make Halloween sacrifices…this has made them very angry

So help Me vote on which setting would be most creepy

PS:I made this poll on the Halloween game jam thread but
I’m making another one here to get general opinion.thanks in advance

  • The mental hospital
  • The city of old gods
  • The haunted hotel

0 voters

4 Likes

I’m getting Outlast vibes… love it!

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I read abandoned mental hospital as “abandoned mall” for a hot second there.

3 Likes

Psychiatry and mental health already have such a weird stigma to them in society that I dont really feel comfortable when it shows up as a venue for horror, so if you do make the mental institution game, I’d encourage you to make it something other than the patients are the monsters or the doctors are abusive!

17 Likes

Hello guys! :wave:

1 Like