If the only option is to play as a (heterosexual) male, then I will not buy the game. As someone who has learned of CoG fairly recently thanks to Steam, I bought my first couple of CYOAs solely because they allow me to create a character with a gender and sexuality of my choosing. This is such a novel approach I felt compelled to support their products.
In theory the poll category pre-determined gender doesn’t sound too bad. Unfortunately, in my experience, in any action/adventure genre this automatically seems to translate into a heterosexual male protagonist. Well, I want to play a strong female character.
I haven’t been able to go through all of the content in this thread, there’s so much of it- so if I’ve missed anything my apologies.
What about the thought of not actually choosing orientation? I mean, obviously different story parameters effect how it should be handled, but if all of the NPCs are of a static gender- one or the other… what if the player doesn’t ‘choose’ an orientation… they just have in game options that are open to any orientation? And that the NPCs will react how they will- with some being okay with certain choices, and others reacting negatively? Because, that’s realistic.
I suppose putting it into a sort of example explanation: Think about playing Commander Shepard in the Mass Effect games- you chose who you wanted to romance. Except, where some crew members would say no instead of yes.
Does this seem like a reasonable approach? You choose if you’re male or female, and then choose who you want to try to romance, with the possibility of being turned down because you aren’t said NPC’s preferred gender?
@Shawn_Patrick_Reed
I think this is the best approach for games with fixed genders for all ROs. And it’s already used in many choicescript games.
The choice of orientation that determines the gender of all or some ROs is used more often because it means that a non-bisexual MC will have more ROs in one playthrough, and many authors and players prefer this over realism.
Thanks. Yes, your explanation of orientation-to-NPC-gender offering greater RO makes good sense to me. For a game where NPC genders don’t really matter, I think that’s fine. But, as my opinion, I think a more detail-oriented game can be created with fixed genders by way of enriched NPC interaction. I’m sure it could be done with flex-gender-NPCs, but would be a lot more work.
Having a lot of romance options can be nice. The Lost Heir is a great example - I very much like how it handled flex-gender-NPCs and ROs. The game I’ve begun will have static-gendered NPCs, I wanted to be sure that my planned approach would be reasonable for most people. Like that the -option- is there to suddenly start trying to seduce someone that isn’t the -player’s- preferred gender, and that the player just doesn’t have to take such an option. Or can. Like, a player who wants to play a character like an avatar of theirself can- but has the option not to- is that reasonable?
And would anyone think it unfair to have less ROs as a certain gender/orientation than others? If given a certain set of people in real life… it isn’t going to be fair. But what are opinions on that?
Choosing the gender individually for every RO as in The Lost Heir or Mecha Ace is even better than having all of them set to the same gender depending on the MC’s orientation, but i think it requires more elaborate coding that gets even more complicated with every additional RO.
I also like the aproach used in XOR, when the choice of an ROs gender sets another RO’s gender to the opposite.
As to your last question, I think it depends on the style of the game. If it is supposed to be somewhat realistc, restricting ROs is good, but most games are set in fantasy or futuristic worlds and are more about letting the player have fun then about realism. In such games it can be better to not restrict the number of ROs by gender/orinetation unless the plot or internal consistancy demands for such restrictions.
I’m pretty against the MCsexual character approach, although I don’t immediately discredit games that utilize it as I understand it’s personal preference.
I’d rather have sexuality and gender be an integrated part of the character that I interact with, not be something I create. It forces me to react to the game, which is what I enjoy in interactive fiction. If I want to create then I write.
It makes the characters feel unfinished. I hate to say it, but whenever a game presents the choice of defining what an NPC’s sexuality and gender are I immediately think “oh, so that’s something that’s undefined and will probably never matter or be dealt with in any depth.” To me my defining the NPCs versus the author defining the NPC is the difference between clicking a choice that changes an arbitrary aesthetic and having a fully realized character against whom I’m forced to interact with. I don’t feel like I’m really interacting with someone if a few choices before I decided potentially major aspects of their being. It feels so much more satisfying to me if an author presents me a fully formed character and then I, as a player, must learn how to deal with it. I want characters to come to me as homosexual, bisexual, asexual, pans etc etc already. Make that a part of who they are. Don’t turn it into an arbitrary choice. Also, I really didn’t like being able to choose what celebrity Black Magic looked like. I always put Gary Bussey because it was such a shallow choice. I’d rather just have a guy or girl with a set appearance that can be described and is universal rather than a variable that ocassionally pops up.
Honestly the characters in COGs already are a little thin, and the trend of MCsexual makes them feel thinner. They feel ill-defined. Often I can pick out major traits (here is Josh the slacker head of a start up business) but beyond that they feel vague. This isn’t to say they’re bad characters. It’s just to say they can be so much more. I really just want more.
This is personal preference. I prefer a different kind of game that is deeply character based, and many COGs simply don’t satisfy this for me. Again, this isn’t bad. I just prefer a different kind of game. And the games where NPC’s characteristics are set by the player can be very good in their own ways, but as far as depth of character and challenging the player to react to elements out of their control I don’t believe they can be as deep as they could otherwise be. There are no surprises when I define the NPC. Frankly, I read fiction to be surprised. I know what’s in my head already, and sometimes I want to get out of my head and enter another person’s creative universe.
I agree with your on the MCsexual characters, and I also prefer genderlocked ROs as I’ve already explained it in post #7.
However, in many games romance is not a main plot but just there and ROs are ultimately a reward for the MC. In such games, allowing the player to glchoose their own perfect RO is acceptable to me.
@Sashira
I think it really depends on what the story is like.
I mean the way you have your story written I think is good you can choose both your gender and what your sexual preference is.
However there are some stories that make more sense if your love interests were written as one gender or another (pretty much you can not choose the gender). What I mean by that is there are points in life where you go “Oh that person is awesome, sweet, caring and all around a perfect person.” In real life it would be foolish not to date them other than the fact that they are the gender you are not attracted to.
I also feel that there isn’t a good explanation as to why NPCs recognize your character as female/male/neither. I mean in some stories it would make sense (like the story called “Best of Us” were you are in a realm where gender identity is recognized and considered normal). But there are other stories where it is chalked up to “Oh you see yourself as female and your a male? Alright then I will mark you down as female and all the NPCs will know about it and not questioned”. I wouldn’t mind seeing NPCs calling the MC their given sex, only to be corrected by the MC. I know it may seem like a lot more work but I feel the readers would be more integrated into the story.
I prefer playing as my gender because its easier to insert myself as him (I like alot of customization options because even if its just for fpavor text its nice) but that doesn’t mean I can’t play as other genders/orientations I just prefer my own .
I think everybody should have a chance to make their own characters.
Instead of 20-something year old white male
(Which is why I loved skyrim to bits)
“I never understand why “everybody’s bi” should be an issue? I mean the default forever have been “everybody’s straight” and that is clearly not true either.”
Thank you. I tried to be subtle. After all, everyone, regardless of gender, can hold hands, kiss, hug, grope and such. Uni’s “horn” reference in that one dating scene may not be overly subtle but I felt the need to push the envelope for some reason.
In character creation I give people the option to like males, females, both, or neither. (To simplify my life, I only cut out third-gender ROs for people whose answer was neither, and let the character decide case-by-case whether they’re interested.) But at the point in the week where you’re considering who to take to the dance, and about to ask people out, you have the option to say “Maybe I’m not as _____ as I thought, give me some more options.”
I’m not sure yet whether I’m going to write a “correction” scene. In my game it’s a little easier to work around; your character interacts mainly with other people at their high school. High School is a little fish bowl where word travels fast. My working assumption is that almost everyone at your school is aware of your gender identity (e.g., the pronouns you prefer) and so if anyone gets it wrong, it’d be a bully.
Please clarify? I would consider the orientation “lesbian” to also be describable as “preference for females”. What’s the problem there, do you think “preference” makes it sound too much like a choice? I prefer cats to dogs, and I never chose that, it’s just how I naturally feel. Or is the issue that a lesbian’s “preference” for females makes it sound like she could be into a male if she found the right one? If it’s that, I could see it; Chasing Amy scenarios happen, but plenty of other people will never ever be attracted to the opposite of their “preferred” gender.
The best source I can find is on the GLAAD website.
Offensive: “sexual preference”
Preferred: “sexual orientation” or “orientation”
The term “sexual preference” is typically used to suggest that being lesbian, gay or bisexual is a choice and therefore can and should be “cured.” Sexual orientation is the accurate description of an individual’s enduring physical, romantic and/or emotional attraction to members of the same and/or opposite sex and is inclusive of lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, as well as straight men and women (see AP & New York Times Style).
I really never liked that ‘it’s not a choice’ argument.
It may or may not be. I have no idea. But saying that the person doesn’t have a choice and simply is attracted to certain genders seems to have an ugly implication.
When you say, “they can’t choose to be anything different”, you might as well be saying, “they can’t help having such a ‘wrong’ sexual orientation. So we should forgive them for it.”
I guess it just seems like a better argument would be that it shouldn’t matter whether they’re choosing their sexual orientation or not. There’s nothing wrong with it either way, so it doesn’t matter.
I see your point that even if it WAS a choice, it shouldn’t matter. But it just isn’t. This is why there are “coming out” stories but no “how I became gay” stories.
I’m bisexual, so you’d think that I would have a little more leeway to “choose” who I like, but no. At times I’ve been really frustrated with dating men or women, so I could choose to date the opposite for awhile, but I was always attracted to both. It’s just a thing about people, like eye color. Though unlike eye color, it is possible for it to shift during someone’s adult life. (Debatable whether the orientation actually “changes”, or the person’s perception of themselves changes to include new information.)
Well you can’t choose who you like. Honestly I think most people are born bisexual to varying degrees. Some lean so much one way or another that they can live their lives heterosexual or homosexual. I do believe there are cases where people are 100% asexual, homosexual, heterosexual but I believe that a majority of human beings are bisexual to varying degrees. I myself am mostly heterosexual but have found myself attracted to other guys on occasion. I guess I’d say I’m 80/20.
That make sense; being in a tight knit community like a school it is more likely that most of the students and teachers would know what your character liked being called. My statement was just pointed towards gender identity in most stories not just yours.
I find that there are some stories (both CoG and HoC) when read makes the reader go “huh I never stated my gender identity to this stranger but they know what I prefer being called?”
I just found it strange.
