Politics Thread


#1629

I mean, the best thing NY could do is just declare the NRA a terrorist organization like Cuomo joked about.


#1630

The NRA has a siege mentality just as some abortion rights groups do. It comes from decades of their opponents trying every trick under the sun to undermine the right they hold dear. it makes them unwilling to concede an inch even on points where the overwhelming majority of the population disagrees with their stance.

The political left I think overestimates the NRA’s financial muscle while simultaneously underestimating the NRA’s ability to turn out a serious number of dedicated single issue voters in a lot of swing districts and states.

My biggest grievance with the NRA is over their silence in the tragic death of Philando Castile, an African American killed by a trigger happy hyperventilating cop after calmly informing the cop that he was armed, as is his legal right, during a routine traffic stop.


#1631

But a firearm is orders of magnitude more lethal than a blade or bare fists. Almost anything can theoretically be used to murder someone including (according to an especially audacious claim I once saw in the context of a gun control debate) two inches of water. I don’t think we’re utterly incapable of nuance to the point where either all weapons are okay or none of them are. We can acknowledge that some are far more dangerous than others.

Furthermore while a gun is a tool like any other we shouldn’t neglect to mention that it’s a tool designed for the very specific purpose of killing. I can’t use a gun to cut open a bag of dog food, weed my garden or prepare carrots and potatoes for a delicious stew. It’s only useful for one thing. To me that makes legislation regulating private ownership far more reasonable for guns than knives.

I’ve heard people say stuff like this a lot, seemingly trying to convince the listener that so much as attempting stricter regulations is completely pointless. It’s never convinced me. There’s plenty we could do to make America a safer society. Just because it’s difficult and might not work as well as we hoped doesn’t mean we shouldn’t even bother trying.

I don’t particularly want to live in a country where there’s very little stopping any random nutjob from walking into my workplace and shooting us all. I can’t carry a gun with me everywhere I go and I wouldn’t want to if I could. If it’s a choice between everyone having guns and no one having guns, that’s an easy choice for me to make.

You can probably tell my views tend towards the left instead of the right.

I lived out in the sticks for most of my teenage years, far enough from civilization that you can mosey into your backyard to shoot targets and no one will bother you, likewise you shrug it off if you hear gunshots in the distance. Shooting was a family activity for us, and although it’s been years I still vividly remember the feeling of power that comes from holding a loaded gun. It’s intoxicating, but it’s also terrifying. I had a lot of fun shooting targets back in the day, I still probably would, but I came to the conclusion a long time ago that there’s no such thing as responsible gun ownership because it’s irresponsible to allow people to have easy access to that kind of power to begin with.


#1632

I like to sum up my political views with “Guillotine Fetishism”.

What does that mean? Am I serious? Am I joking? No one will ever know because now I’ve made people too uncomfortable to ask me to elaborate, which is precisely my goal because that would be opening a massive can of worms.


#1633

A stab through the heart is just as lethal as a bullet through the heart. A bullet through the shoulder is just as nonlethal as a stab or slash to the shoulder. Guns do not have greater lethality then knives, they simply have greater range.

Personally I’d rather be shot than stabbed. The odds of them missing are much greater, and if they do hit, the odds of infection are far lower.

Not necessarily. They’re designed to stop someone or something from advancing by puncturing a hole in them. Depending on where they hit, the damage they do can kill. And sometimes that’s the intent, but not necessarily. A 90lb woman can stop a 200lb man from forcing himself on her with a .45. Will she kill him? That depends on where she hits him. Simply drawing a gun on an advancing man will cause them to think twice and withdraw under most circumstances without the need to fire a shot.

Much the way you can buy your food instead of hunting it yourself, you can also buy your food pre-cut without having to cut it yourself these days. And you don’t really need a knife to cut open a bag of dogfood. A pair of safety scissors will do just fine. Just because you’re accustomed to using a knife for these tasks does not make them necessary in the 21st century.

We could ban cars, and even physical human interaction, and force everyone to stay in their bedrooms 24/7, interacting only over the internet aside from the occasional medical check-up. That would make people far safer, more decisively than any gun ban, eliminating both traffic fatalities and homicides, but it would also take much of the joy out of life too.

This is a fake choice since a society where no one has a gun is a pipe dream. It sounds nice, but it’s entirely unrealistic. Someone is always armed, and they don’t always mean you well. In a society where guns are present, I’d much prefer to be one of the people with guns than one of the ones without.

Yup, but no worries, if I were looking for an echo chamber I wouldn’t have posted here.

If I could wave a magic wand and rid the world of all war, homicide, and all the other terrible things human beings do to each other I would. The problem is that there will always be people with easy access who shouldn’t have it. Governments and their agents aren’t necessarily any more responsible than the people they govern. And there will always be the black market for criminals. If we can’t keep human beings from crossing borders illegally, firearms won’t be stopped either.

The media sensationalizes mass-shootings because they are nowhere near as common as traffic fatalities, but that sort of sensationalization unfortunately only serves as motivation for others who are also homicidally unhinged to go out with a similar bang. We as a society do need to get a better handle on our mentally ill, especially those with homicidal tendencies.


#1634

https://www.cabelas.com/category/Responsibile-Firearm-Ownership/612491580.uts

Quote:

As a gun owner, it is important to be responsible and safe in the storage, transportation, and use of your firearms. There are many variables that effect the safety needs of gun owners such as lifestyle, environment, legal requirements, financial limitations and personal preference. Cabela’s has partnered with Project ChildSafe (a program of the National Shooting Sports Foundation) to provide public education on the importance of storing firearms responsibly when they are not in use. This page provides an overview of ways to safely store your firearms, and can help you determine the best products to suit your needs as a safe and responsible gun owner.

Some things to consider when prioritizing your needs:

  • Preventing unauthorized access by minors
  • Keeping firearms safe from theft
  • Accessibility for home and self-defense
  • Safe transportation of firearms
  • Protecting firearms from fires and natural disasters
  • Proper equipment for safe use in the field
  • Preserving your firearm’s condition for safe operation
  • Local laws regarding firearm storage and transportation

#1635

I don’t usually post in this thread, but come on. Even as you’re making this argument you have to know it is completely dishonest. If someone breaks into my house with a gun I’m not going to grab a kitchen knife and feel on equal footing? Nobody ever barricaded themselves in a Las Vegas hotel and stabbed 400 people! Guns are whole-sale death machines, that serve no purpose other than killing. And saying they’re no more lethal than I knife is like saying they’re no more lethal than a pillow because if I ran a pillow through your heart you’d be just as dead as if a bullet went through it.


#1636

That’s not true actually. I can use a gun to open bottles too; the Galil ARM has a bottle opener. :smiley:


#1637

It really depends on how tactically aware you are, and your own willingness to be aggressively ruthless. I’ll take a knife over a gun in close quarters combat any day. I don’t need to point a knife the way he does a gun. Police officers have often been killed by knife-wielding assailants who closed the gap before the officer could draw, point and fire.

In a home invasion situation where I’m armed with a knife and the intruder has a gun I’d try to get him as he came around a corner, or barring that my goal would be to close the gap between us and take him out before he can line up a shot on me. My preference would be to escape injury entirely, but I’d accept a nonlethal injury if I had to.

If they were, all 400+ would have been killed instead of 58 which I’ll grant was still a frightful toll. That toll had less to do with the lethality of the weapon than that it was incredibly difficult for onlookers to pin down where he was firing them, resulting in the police getting a lot of bad information on the shooter’s location, leading them to think there were multiple shooters and slowing down the response.

i disagree with you there.

I’ve never seen or even heard of a pillow being run through someone’s heart, and I assure you, I’ve been whacked plenty hard by pillows on the chest on many an occasion. :smirk_cat: OTOH plenty of people have died due to knife wounds.


#1638

I see your knife attack with nine casualties and raise you. This to me seems to be somewhat worse.

Also this.


#1639

I don’t think the Paris attacks are a great way to counter argument against no gun control since Paris actually has strict gun laws…


#1640

I was commenting more on the effectiveness of firearms on killing more people.

If someone gets it in their head to kill large groups of people, they’ll do it with whatever they can. Weapons on hand, weapons they can build, and weapons they can take from responsible gun owners.

A kitchen knife in the hands of a determined individual can cause a lot of damage. So can a gun, the difference is that one is demonized the most because of the crimes associated with firearms. I know that a majority of US gun owners are responsible and sensible with their firearms. It isn’t fair that they should get demonized over it. The problem is though, in a society, you are forced to walk as fast as the bad eggs allow you to.

When 9/11 came around we gave up some of our Civil Liberties on the grounds of the national welfare. I feel it’s fair if Gun Owners are asked to conform to a set of fair and sensible national guidelines, for the national welfare.

Like a responsible gun owner in my mind should keep their non-registered concealed firearm in a safe with one number code and their ammunition in another.

Concealed firearms should be allowed due to them being licensed and I feel that it should be done in a federally mandated way. Everyone knows leaving a loaded gun around is dangerous and freak accidents do happen so minimising that should be a priority.

Reasonable gun owners should not be against any of this because it is common sense protection. You don’t want people playing with your firearms.


#1641

I am an European that has never seen a real gun in her life except a rusty shotgun from my grabd grandfather and it was broken. So I don’t really understand how should live in a society when anyone could have a gun. The portrayal here from left and social democrats is that guns defendants are conservative and all stereotypes and almost like a meme and racist.

Is it state regulated the weaponry? Or is a national regulation material?

Sorry To point out so elementary stuff for all of you but I feel abof this discussion very interesting so I want understanding better situation. as tv portrait that kids have pink ak 47 or grenade launchers


#1642

I’m assuming most people who are discussing the NRA and gun control/rights are American.(including me) so this is what I know:

The second amendment gives people the right to bear arms it’s an old amendment but in the US it’s basically by law to not take away any amendment rights. So because of recent situations.(shootings) a lot people, mostly liberals and Democrats had been discussing gun control while people on the right are rejecting the idea. So basically it’s a black and white situation with both sides attacking each other.(but this conversation started because a NRA post, who are activists for gun rights.)

To be honest I’m neither left or right but I still feel like limiting guns won’t do anything. Florida I believe has gun control laws and it has shown not to improve anything and Britain has no guns but they still have a high knife and truck attack rate. :confused:

(Was your post suppose to sarcastic? Lol sorry I can’t tell over the internet.)


#1643

You guys have “gun control” laws just as the Soviets had “equal rights” and “due process.”

@poison_mara, it varies state to state.


#1644

No I am Spanish. Even most police doesn’t have guns and is almost impossible have one lots of exams and permits needed. So really I have no idea. All the gun laws and content here are known for films or for very twisted propaganda from left against weapons. Like have a gun is super dangerous and people with guns are anti black or something.


#1645

So I don’t post here often but I could mention how the gun stuff is here in Brazil.

In 2005 there was a referendum to implement much stricter gun control as an attempt to reduce violence. The referendum lost as the majority preferred to keep the gun rights. The government went ahead and ignored the result and implemented the gun control laws anyway.

Well, 14 years later and from what I could gather this place has three times more firearm related deaths than the US and more than ten times less (registered) guns. Guess that didn’t work; deaths by guns increase each year.

Government changed this year and gun control was loosened slightly this month. People want guns to defend themselves since government police aren’t omnipresent gods. We’ll see how it will go in the next few months.


#1646

In my side of Spain is common to see police with guns, but I totally agree with you in the rest.

Also, to me the idea of ever living in the USA makes me feel so unsafe? Just the thought of living somewhere in which lots of people around me could have guns makes me feel extremely uneasy. And I am sure it’s mostly a cultural difference, but I truly can’t imagine myself ever feeling safe if I moved to a country with such loose gun control as the USA.

And just too expand this a bit, in my opinion, I don’t think the USA could ever restrict guns at the same level as some other countries (like Spain) have it. Is, I believe, too ingrained in their society to ever be able to safely change it. Specially if we think about the black market over there.


#1647

In Galicia national police has guns but local not so most police we usually see in streets has no guns. But I totally agree with you too. The mere idea of anyone could have a gun and attack me makes me feel unsafe


#1648

Well, there are numerous factors for the failure of gun control.

  1. Powerful gangs who are in turf wars with one another.

  2. I’m sure these gangs control elements of the police and local government like they do in Colombia and Mexico.

  3. Not enough police coverage.

  4. Economic disparity which drives people into the aforementioned gangs due to them having zero hope of carving a life for themselves outside one.

  5. The after-effects of Operation Condor and a military junta.

A case study on the violence of South America and Central America requires a lot of time and a strong stomach.