Politics Thread


#790

Articulate, maybe not seeing the “clean”. Pence’s unclean practice are all in pursuit of what he views as a “god given” mission that mainly amounts to a war on anybody he views as “sinful” with particular attention paid to women, gay men and trans people.

It’s honestly pretty hard not to, this is after all a man who’d rather cost his state’s economy at least 250 million dollars rather than be decent to gay people to the point where big businesses, not usually the most progressive or ethical actors themselves practically revolted. :unamused:

That about sums it up yeah, but not just for US Democrats or well anybody not as zealous and to the left of Pence.
Problem is I kinda see your Dems winning the House (Bryce getting to replace Ryan would be the icing on the cake for me there, but the chances of that are sadly kind of slim) but I’m not seeing the Senate and the House on its own seems kind of impotent now that the tax plan has already passed.

Pence’s brand would be a particularly severe threat moreso than Trump’s or the “mainstream” Republican’s. As bad as the Trump administration has already been for gay people in the US Trump at least doesn’t believe he’s got a divine mandate that dictates he must dedicate every effort to make it worse.


#791

Or at the very least, pays lip service to them. Pence is a Dominionist, like a good deal of the Republican “old guard,” who have demonstrated their disdain of democracy by repeatedly using things like punitive investigations and manipulation of the Congressional schedule to specifically undermine our democratic institutions to fit their agenda, tactics which have been used since the heady days of the McCarthy Era.

You could argue that this investigation can be taken as a punitive, anti-democratic measure instead of a matter of criminal justice. But unlike say, the Ken Starr investigation, this is based off of a damning pattern of behavior thst predates the election, and not a conspiracy theory regarding the death of a man who had already been confirmed as a suicide.

He got his start on a radio show where he consistently spewed vitriol and patronizatoon targetting women and religIous/ethnic minorities. So yes. I do. And I despise the people that put him in office, too.

I definitely want impeachment. And even in the case that the House doesn’t flip and the Senate continues to shrug, I want there to at least be an indictment. The president is not above the law, no matter what Trump might say. Even if there are those who would drag their feet and obstruct an increasingly substantial investigation for the sake of retaining power.


#792

You guys just need to do what Australia does to fix the Trump problem and have the party elect the leader rather than the public and he’d be gone within the year. We’ve had 5 prime ministers in 8 years (Just got a new one today when the ruling party decided to kick another one out apparently.) It’s like we’ve got our own little game of thrones happening. (Except there’s kangaroos instead of dragons and the Kings and Queens tend to last longer in GOTs.)


#793

I wonder how that will affect me living here in Australia. Personally, I never read much about Aussie politics even before coming to uni (find it even more complicated), but from what I gather and the discussion I just had from my dad, Turnball wasn’t an effective leader?


#794
  1. You get your annual prompt to change your smoke alarm battery?
  2. You get to decide whether to call him Mr Morrison or “ScoMo”? (Turnbull really has referred to him as that when they were “friends”.)
  3. Probably not much else except it sounds like he’ll be more conservative than Turnbull. (But who knows at this point :stuck_out_tongue: )

Meh, depends on who you ask. Not really a very memorable one and some people have been saying not particularly effective. He backed down on issues if he thought he couldn’t win them for example. Still better than Abott who he kicked out who seemed to be making it his mission to personally work his way up to insulting just about everyone in Australia.

Anyway, not to worry. There’s probably going to be an election soon so we can likely look forward to our 6th leader in 8 years at this rate.


#795

Honestly, from what I have heard from my new aussie friends here, this is geniunely a no win situation concerning the parties. Nevertheless, this is why I never put in more effort to pay attention to politics in Australia; Too convoluted in my opinion.


#796

Hey guys McCain looks like he’s going to die soon and that is not a good thing for any type of Center pull in the Republican Party


#797

McCain is a war hero and a true statesman. He will be missed.


#798

John McCain is a war monger and a member of the Keating Five. He’s about as corrupt as they come, and him dying won’t redeem him. It’s so weird to me seeing how some folks on the Left have become fans of his–just because of a single no-vote he made regarding Obamacare. He made Trump mad, but dig into his history and you’ll see just how vile a character this is.


#799

Despite a person’s take on what positions he has held during his long political career, his actions as a prisoner of war shall, in my mind, trump all else of his legacy. He could have been released earlier than the rest of the POWs in his camp because of the status of his father being commander of the Pacific theater, yet he made the personal decision to stay as a captive until he went home with the rest.

My view on John McCain politically was not formed on just one vote or one stand or one maverick act he made during his long career. He made a lot of mistakes, but he was always one that adhered to a ethos of working across the aisle; something that is no longer the norm.

While I did not agree with many of his political choices he still ended up being a better Senator than most. Take that for what you will but calling him “vile” is something I will never do.


#800

As a soldier, I have nothing but respect for McCain. As a man who complained about corruption in his party but didn’t have the courage to fight back against said corruption until he was literally dying, my feelings are a bit more mixed.

I respectully leave it at that.


#801

The 2002 Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act (aka McCain-Feingold) was a spear McCain aimed directly at the heart of the corruption in Washington. Unfortunately the US Supreme Court struck it down in Citizen’s United v FEC.


#802

One act doesn’t undo a record, especially when said act is swiftly shot down by federal judges put in by one’s own party. And it certainly doesn’t make up for the fact that he lost his spine sometime after 2008. But unlike a good deal of “establishment Republicans” I have some degree of respect for McCain. Which is more than I can say for the likes of, say, Mitch McConnell.


#803

Sorry, re-reading my post I didn’t mean to imply that you liked him due to a single vote. That comment was just directed to some of the general, recent comments I’ve seen in favor of the senator.

John McCain’s status as a POW is very interesting. When I first heard Trump speak poorly of McCain getting captured, I assumed (and many people still do) that Trump was insane and just plain wrong. You don’t insult a veteran, let alone one who gets captured and tortured. But after some digging I found out that the story wasn’t that simple. Songbird doesn’t have the legacy he’d like you to believe.

Honestly, I consider McCain to be a very establishment politician who has grown quite wealthy at the expense of many in the Middle East. While I agree he’s worked across the aisle more than most politicians, I’d argue it wasn’t always for our best interest. I don’t see him making it past the Pearly Gates.


#804

I wouldn’t call that his only act, just the most high profile one, and I’m not sure I’d call 8 years “swiftly”. Furthermore the DC District Court upheld the legislation, but you’re right that it was overturned by Supreme Court justices appointed by McCain’s own party.


#805

His categorical opposition to torture also earns him some points with me. That said he does have some very ugly spots on his record.


#806

I can never determine how to feel about a scenario in which Trump would be impeached, at the cost of Pence becoming president. One the one hand, I do categorically consider Trump to be overall more dangerous (though as a gay man, yeah, I would expect Pence to target me more directly than Trump has… though I don’t see Trump stopping others from doing so, either). If it were a question of a single term, I would expect Trump to do considerably more damage than Pence would (not that Pence wouldn’t do a lot himself). I do, however, worry about how Pence seems to project a lot more sincerity and respectability. He might be more effective—effective at doing terrible things, that is—and might have an easier time maintaining a decent approval rating, and I’m not sure what kind of precedent that would set.

I can’t say I’d be able to predict what would happen. On balance, I probably would trade Trump for Pence. But I’d still be worried either way.

I would worry what effect the lack of primaries would have on the Democrat side, though. Seems like primaries introducing new candidates is the only hope we have of pushing through more progressive candidates. It’d be a different matter if we had a larger number of more diverse parties.


#807

I can answer our political parties have constant and for the most part consistent internal democracy practiced by their members. And, yes, in theory that would allow our parties to do the same as in Australia, if enough members of our Conservative party voted to replace mr. Rutte. The reasons why it doesn’t tend to go down that way over here partly have to do with our own democratic traditions and partly with the current reality that our multi-party coalitions that often comprise 3 or even more parties have come to rely much more on the PM to keep them together since the late 20th century. Therefore getting rid of the PM is practically guaranteed to trigger new elections at present.
In any case if you want to influence the people a party names as candidates the easiest way is to join that party. For example in November I’m going to vote on our list of Green Candidates for next year’s Provincial elections.

If anything it is your primaries that heavily skew which candidates are eligible because it often takes an inordinate amount to even run in a US primary. Whereas if I had been healthier in during my youth I would probably have stood a decent chance to be nominated even as a then quite poor student with about 200 Euro’s total in savings to my name.


#808

I’m sorry, but Dominion Theology is fringier than fringe. Since the Bush 2 administration it’s become a popular term of abuse for the evangelical right…but it’s about as accurate as the claims that Obama was a Muslim socialist, and serves the same rhetorical purpose. I disagree with most of Pence’s agenda, but I think he’d by and large pursue it through the rules of the game (possibly more than Obama did).

Pence is above all an opportunist and a coward, as exemplified by his choice to embrace Trump. He’s not a man to drive a bold agenda or stick with it under fire–certainly not to lead a theocratic agenda. Fear of this milquetoast radio personality should not discourage us from pursuing impeachment of a corrupt President.

McCain is a man whose outstanding achievements (notably in the long fight for campaign finance reform and against torture) are hard to weigh against his opportunistic failures (with Sarah Palin topping that list, for my money). Good article in the Atlantic today: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/the-tao-of-john-mccain/568576/


#809

Canada, Ontario
Age:14, I’m young
To be honest, I dont know too much about politics but from what I’ve learned from both liberals and conservatives Im not really on either side. If I had to pick though, I am leaning more towards liberals.
Also for the presidential election, I’m not American but…Bernie Sanders 2020.