Politics Thread


#769

All I can think of when I see Pence is this.

image


#770

Only liked that because we don’t have a button that says I like that image but seriously hate what it represents.

Really if there are going to be impeachments please just get rid of Pence first. With any luck he’ll then ask somebody like Rubio to fill the VP spot and only then should you move on Trump impeachment if you’re going to do it. That way what comes after might be a slight improvement and at least reasonably survivable.


#771

I misread that as “whining” and I think it would still be accurate :sweat:


#772

That works too. :smile:


#773

In all fairness to Pence, he’s never actually advocated for gay conversion therapy. That said, as a devout evangelical who believes homosexuality is a sin he is no friend to “unrepentant” gay folk.


#774

That’s the dangers of trusting all forms of media. Next thing you know you have people genuinely believe he’s said on record that he wants electric conversion therapy.


#775

He did refuse to explicitly disavow it (as did Priebus and the Republican Party platform), so it’s certainly likely he tacitly approves, given everything else we know about him. But there are enough highly disturbing things about Pence to believe Trump has succeeded in finding one of the few politicians who make him look good by comparison as his VP.

Give it ten years of President Pence and who knows. :fearful: It certainly wouldn’t exactly be out of character for him to do so at some point, which is what makes it believable even as “fake news”.


#776

I think Pence is too smart and polished of a politician to open up that can of worms, but I don’t blame you for not wanting to take the risk.


#777

He does use and certainly in the past has apparently used some of the more covert “dog whistles” that seem to indicate at the very least that he doesn’t necessarily disapprove of harmful conversion therapies.
As for discrimination against gay people, women and the poor he does that stuff very much openly. Case in point pretty much his whole tenure as Indiana Governor.

Like I said before Trump or his campaign team did succeed in finding him a running mate who made Trump look good in comparison. Which may be a smarter strategy than we usually give him or his team credit for. If his running mate had been somebody like Rubio, Kasich or even Christie then we might have been at least knee deep into the I-word proceedings against Trump by now.


#778

Politics is all about coalition-building and maintenance, and the “dog whistles” are signals to the evangelicals in his coalition that he’s one of them. I’m not saying he isn’t tacitly supportive of some of the milder forms of gay conversion therapy in the context of an all all-powerful God working miracles in human lives, but I think he’s too smart and too polished to ever give his approval to electro-shock or some of the harsher forms of gay conversion therapy.

Pence’s devout evangelical beliefs have certainly made a lot of LGBT folk more hesitant in seeking to impeach Trump.


#779

Again, I suppose it is fortunate I’m not American as unless Pence is gone first I would not want to impeach Trump at present for (almost) any reason under (almost) any circumstances.


#780

There is a chance that Pence would resign before Impeachment would be finalized in the Senate. In which case Ryan would be up and we’d be in a continuous dog fight over Social Security and Medicare.


#781

Well at least the debate would have moved to the issues, instead of the person. Besides if the impeachment is after the midterms, which seems to be pretty much guaranteed at present Ryan at least will be gone as he isn’t even running anymore. Hope Randy Bryce manages to take his seat, that would be sweet!


#782

Impeachment proceedings will never get up off the ground as long as Republicans control the House, but Five Thirty Eight is giving the Democrats a 72% of taking the House in the November elections as of this moment.

Ryan isn’t seeking re-election so he’s out in January. So no worries about a President Ryan.


#783

I personally see very few scenarios where Pence voluntarily resigns. He’s devoted his career towards an eventual presidential run since he was governor, and unless clear and actionable evidence is produced that he was directly part of the Russia collusion, he’s never going to pass up the opportunity. He’s simply too ambitious and too shameless to go down with the ship and abandon his best shot at the presidency.


#784

#785

People talk about how Pence seems “more articulate” or “more clean.” He’s a viscous ball of grease so large it could clog a toilet drain, and his handling of the Indiana opioid crisis shows that he would be neither any nicer, nor any more competent, compared to Trump. And we’ve seen enough of Ryan’s “leadership” “style” to know what to expect if he comes into office.

There really isn’t a best case scenario, is there?


#786

He is both of those things in comparison to Trump, but that’s not his biggest selling point. For those who see Trump as a threat to democracy in America, Pence’s biggest selling point is that he is much more respectful of the US’s democratic norms. Pence is a run of the mill conservative Republican, maybe a little more socially conservative than average, but nothing out of the bounds of Republican norms. Trump on the other hand is a political wrecking ball who has little respect for the US’s democratic traditions.

Clearly you intensely despise the man.

That’s not going to happen.

For the political left, the best case scenario is that Democrats win both the House and the Senate 10 weeks from now and then the presidency in 2020. Impeachment would just replace Trump with Pence which is like asking them if they’d prefer to die of cancer or of congestive heart failure.


#787

Regardless of Pence, I think there’s still a big difference between impeachment and not. In one case, we’re a nation with personal consequences for cheating an election, and in the other case, we’re not, as long as your party is powerful and finds you useful. To me, that is a huge difference in precedent. Sure, Pence is not a good guy, but I think a democracy has to draw the line at election laws – especially breaking them by seeking foreign involvement – or it’s not really going to be a democracy much longer.


#788

This, a thousand times this. There are dozens of Republicans I would prefer to Pence, and probably hundreds of Democrats and others. But I’d take Pence over Trump in a heartbeat, because conservatism isn’t what threatens to break US democracy. Norm-killing is, and no one’s done it with less compunction than The Donald.