Ouroboros (WIP)

There are going to be moments where you’re going to be overpowered for plot purposes. The MC has to go somewhere to move the story. You’re given the option to fight, but in order to progress the story, MC has to lose. If you were going to be willing to go there in the first place, you wouldn’t need to fight. Maybe Lou can write it in that you can successfully fight off Id and the story ends for you :woman_shrugging: You successfully ward them off and go back to seclusion.
We haven’t seen how weak the MC actually is outside of this singular circumstantial event. They were shown in flashbacks to be stubborn and capable of fearlessness in rushing back out to their party. While they failed, I guess they failed less than everyone else? They didn’t appear to die and they stayed relatively unscathed. That thing you view as weak, from a story perspective you were strong for coming out the way you did. Or that was my interpretation of it.
I really loved how Lou wrote humans as basically unicorns walking around. Mostly unseen and unheard of. Something to be looked at in awe. Sure from a reader perspective human is “boring” but from the narrative it isn’t. A human is an anomaly. Which is why I picked it. When I usually select anything but human. Sign me up for being a rarity in the world. And really cool bending “humans as boring” bit.

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What did A do to you :rofl: ?

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Strip me with their eyes at least twice and then laugh at me when I retaliated in the only way the game allowed. I don’t see how I’m the only one made horrifically uncomfortable with that.

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I didn’t think of this perspective. I guess I’ll say I’m more understanding of that but that does not make it any better to me personally

I still dislike it personally. I hate like all of the modern fantasy that comes up here for the same reason, and a good few stories besides. Being only notable for how uninteresting you are is awful to me. I fully get it and why someone may like it, but I despise being human (or close enough) in worlds full of way cooler and more intriguing shit. It doesn’t really make sense to me, why someone would want that in any fashion when text allows the possibility of so much more at no extra cost (unlike say video games, where that can be harder to implement). But I hate being an uninteresting “human” irl so it’s not like that’s just a thing in stories to me and I recognize that only I give a shit about it, based on how incredibly popular Wayhaven and the like are.

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I think being heard is important…when you have constructive criticism.

But your whole post is just a bundle of personal negative thoughts and issues, if you read something that you do not like or offends you so deeply, the only right thing is to stop reading it and move on.

And I see you did not understand the uniqueness of still looking human, or the tragedy of L being a made out of smoke now…maybe your anger blinded you to the information and lore that is explained in the story.

This story is clearly not to your liking, what’s the point in writing all the negative things here?

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To be fair, I believe there is still value in the initial feedback. Some points that were mentioned I would hesitantly agree with but I also believe should be put into a wider perspective.

Those points would have come across more clearly if they had been described in a different way. Which brings us to feedback being hard :slight_smile: @ElliWoelfin You clearly tried to be kind in your feedback which I think is commendable. A “feedback sandwich” would have come a long way in your post (saying something good, then something bad, and finishing with something good).

On a more positive note: @honeylou I reread this today and I’m still so excited that this is now a full-fledged demo!!! I might repeat myself from my last feedback, but one my favorite things is how you acknowledge the customization choices, like, when you choose your body type:
“Your body is […]. It has served you well.”
It feels SO comforting and just sends so many wholesome messages. At the top of my head I can’t think of another story that does it like this (do correct me if I’m wrong please!) Everytime I read these sentences I feel so happy and satisfied.

Cannot wait for the RO scenes. I’ll follow along this game as it progresses. Best of luck certainly. Hope you’re doing well and having a wonderful time.

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I think I’ll go ahead and reply, albeit a short one (lol yeah right fuckin’ idiot) since I don’t want this to go further as an argument type thing. To make very clear, any time I say something here that comes across as a statement of fact is meant to be me expressing my opinion; I don’t want to type some variation of “to me” or “in my opinion” with every sentence.

Personally, I think feedback is useful, assuming it isn’t something like a complaint that goes against the very idea of a story (as in, like someone complaining about not having a male option for a protagonist/RO in a specifically sapphic game). Criticism doesn’t have to be constructive. When something brings up intense emotions, I think it’s worth while to say (even if I have a big squishy amygdala that causes me to naturally tend towards intense and excessive emotions). Especially when it’s not something that’s come up before in discussion. Getting purely accepting responses doesn’t lead to any sort of growth, really; it can be a good thing to see a different viewpoint. Like with A. If they aren’t meant at all to come across as a sexually aggressive pervy asshole, then maybe the author would see my thoughts and think/want to rewrite some of the scenes, to avoid some people reading them as such. I’m not asking for the story to be totally rewritten to fit my wants and needs, not at all. Just, I’m trying to offer an additional, very clearly contrarian, POV.

Hopefully that’s clear enough to read/understand. I don’t mean to come across shitty or like I’m taking everything badly, even if my language leads towards it at times. I do like the world and seemingly the story in general, so telling me (effectively, paraphrased towards how it comes across to me) “shut up and go away if you don’t perfectly love everything as it’s written” isn’t, eh, it comes across as shitty to say. But I get it.

Okay that’s it thanks for reading my incomprehensible word vomit, for anyone who did at least.

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This is a beautiful example of a great CONSTRUCTIVE & respectful reply to @ElliWoelfin

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I felt I did, at least imply what sorts of changes were doable, but I guess I’m not exactly clear or explicit when talking in general. It’s apparent my understanding of what’s right and wrong to say is minimal at best, and I don’t know what “constructive” or “respectful” means in this case, probably because I don’t take things particularly well or at least not as was supposedly meant.

Okay I get it then, I’ll leave the thread.

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Hi everyone —

We ask you to focus on the story and post feedback with the story as your focus.

The moderator team has reviewed post 107, and has determined it is appropriate and even though critique-based, it is focused on the story and is both constructive and actionable.

For those that have flagged posts to call our attention, thank you.

If there are questionable posts in the future, please utilize the flag function available to you.

Thanks.

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I don’t think En’s post deemed a flag. In any case, we should move on and focus on more interesting things such as - poly

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I keep trying to tempt Lou into a Id/L poly. I want it with every fiber of my being. Of course, now I just want to paint the world in A fanart. Four arms to take care of MC. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

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Thought I’d offer a response to this since I was lurking anyway.

First of all, thanks for keeping it civil. Emotions are messy little shits and language is determined to never let our true intentions come through since everyone interprets its meaning differently. It’s wholly infuriating.
To @ElliWoelfin , thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts. If my characters can elicit such a response from you, it makes them feel alive to me.

Since you were so candid with your honesty, I hope you’ll allow me the same: It really sucked to read. It was hurtful to hear about how you despise the characters I adore with such intensity and go only on your assumptions. I also don’t understand why kindness is such a radical concept when it comes to criticism on this forum. It’s really bizarre. Alas, I’m also such a person that struggles with emotions and cries like a little baby over baby turtles racing towards the ocean, so that is for me to regulate.
You are allowed your opinion, and I will gladly accept it, even if what you say isn’t what I want to hear. I do miss the more constructive points, such as suggestions on how to improve. After all, without them, your first post only comes across as ‘wtf, ew, don’t like this’, to which the only reasonable response is, as others have said; don’t read it! And I agree. Don’t engage in media that makes your heart pound for the wrong reasons. It isn’t fair to you or the creator of that work.

To adress some of your points:
I just want to say that we really haven’t gotten far enough into the story to really make such judgement on either the characters(I have to say your choice of characters to call fine and cute is… Interesting. I had me a good chuckle.) or the MC’s strength. Storywise, the mc has just come out of 200 years in isolation, while the others are actively working as hunters. This story is not about being a ‘chosen one’ that is cooler than everyone else. Some of the themes im working on are only enhanced by being one face amongst many. It’s just how it goes. I really recomennd Fell Star if you haven’t tried it, where you get to be so deliciously eldritch. That might be more in-tune with what you are looking for!

While still on the topic of MC being weak/boring, you will have the choice on how MC has kept up with their weapon proficiency, one of which will have everyone reeling when MC hits the training yard. I also disagree on this point because MC is mentally resilient and has shown incredible strength, emotionally. That is just as valid as physical prowess, in this story, anyway.
In the story I’m telling you do have a somewhat predetermined MC, which I think is worth noting too. At least their past is, and they are also molded by the world around them which is wholly different from ours. I think using your imagination to put yourself into their shoes instead of trying to force your own preferences could be worth trying! MC is thrust into a deeply uncomfortable situation after a long isolation where violence wouldn’t solve anything. Not yet, anyway. I will at some point go over the prologue & first chapter to clarify that, but this is the nature of first chapters and prologues… It won’t convey everything I want to convey until the entire story is written and I can add all the effective lines that tie the story together.

Auryn is a sexually free person and one that is molded by the culture around them. You have only been given hints on the open nature of hunters (in the conversation with Y), but this is very much considered normal for them. I can understand if it makes you uncomfortable, if I were faced with someone like Auryn in real life, I would most likely jump them like a rabid raccoon (not really, I would be terrified, but I’d like to think that I’m a badass ready to throw hands). I digress. Hedgehunters, or anyone working in and around the hedge, are very free with their affection, and their love. Sex is viewed entirely differently there, much to the chagrin of the clergy. So to you, they are an aggressive perv, in this story, they are just someone that takes affection where they can find it, not knowing if they will live to see another day. And it is welcomed by the people around them. They do push buttons no normal person would ever do, but again, it only makes sense in the context of the bigger story.

Id is a flaming bastard and that’s that. It is on purpose, I assure you. And they would gladly trade their mist-form with MC if they could.

I hope that this addresses some of your valid but very harsh criticism, and I want to extend a sincere thank you to all of you that answered in the interim.

I also want it on record that, while the moderators rule this corner of the internet, I think they made the wrong decision in flagging enspeys post. That was a great example of how to give critisism, and to make weisse consider the person behind the story. Reading weisses criticism wasn’t helpful in the least, and rather only fueled the doubts I already had. But I also recognize that this is part of sharing your work publicly.

Hope you are all having a good weekend and taking good care of yourselves :heart: (I’m going to sprawl out on the lawn and read The Golden Rose some more. What a masterpiece.) See you later!

(On the topic of poly this is all I have to say: :thinking: :smirk: )

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All I’m asking is for my smol pink haired healer who is calm and happy to get a little L and Id poly love. She can be the balance in chaos. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: Dont make Sage choose between them.:heart: J/k, you keep doing you. I love how things are going and look forward to the rest of this adventure.

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BpDirGXIAAAv1H-

All I want to say is that your writing is beautiful and that, for me, Ouroboros is one of the most amazing WIPs on this forum. Thank you for sharing your work with us.

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I just found out about this WIP and I’m amazed :heart_eyes: it’s wonderfully written and the world is really interesting. Can’t wait for more :heart:

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Definitely all for the MC failing to escape Id, since the scenes are aggravating in the good way. Both Id, and MC are fed up with the other’s BS, and it translates very well on the ride into town.

If an alternative route where MC could successfully get away were written, it might be the excuse needed to show Id was being about as civil as the MC deserved, because then… The ‘mercenaries’ would have been sent to retrieve the MC, and that group would have been considerably more rough about things.

Y is also pretty polite, and rather hands-off about the brand of affection the Hunters under them exhibit on the regular. “Demanding” the MC be present with a conscription was their way to avoid the mercs being hired by the clergy to drag MC to Riven by force. Even acknowledging this as a reader, my MC is going to be an absolute stinker to Yor, while also kinda having an awkward squirmy feeling of possible attraction for the equally awkward gentle giant. My smol human!MC forgot how to be social, and a ‘not-gremlin’ recluse despite initially being a healer who cared for all. He still cares, but his emotions are currently calloused by self-loathing, and the bitterness of being effectively abandoned after a traumatic experience for 200 odd years.

I so look forward to sassing the Serpent Clergy to their faces about ‘neglect of duty’, because as much as there was nothing anyone could do for the MC’s team, the MC didn’t have to be alone with their possibly quite severe survivor’s guilt for all this time. Those snekky jerks ain’t getting off easy; we (MC and I) refuse! :rofl:

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Very much so :smiley:

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I would like to point out, the author has given what type of constructive feedback they’d like to receive.

I would also like to bring this up. If you wrote something, shared it with the public and exposed yourself to criticism, would you like to be told your world was shit? Your characters despised? Unless you’re a masochist, I’d bet the answer being no. So as the good ole saying says, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

Now let me put my words into practice.

Constructive Feedback


From top to bottom.
I would change “its” to the, in order to avoid using “its” so many times in the same sentence.
I’d give another paragraph break here to let “Somethings got to give.” stand on its own, like so:

Somethings got to give.

It just looks better and tidy :slight_smile:
Funny enough, I would recommend the opposite for “You usually don’t get visited very often.” as it seems too lonely. Having it spaced equally to the rest feels again more tidy and naturally pleasing to read.

That feedback can honestly be attributed to simple tidying and etc going forward. Some sentences need more paragraph breaks to keep it clean, but that’s something you’ll know going forward the more you write.

Another piece of feedback I can give you is that you have THIS IS MY OPINION!!! YOU CAN DISREGARD is the many page breaks you have. I was clicking next page a lot, it might help to condense the paragraphs into longer pages to limit the breaks of immersion into the story.

Feedback on writing style

OOF

BRUH YOU KNOW HOW TO WRITEEEEEEEE

You are so descriptive! It’s been awhile since I last read another person’s work since I’m so busy with my own and work, but whoosh I needa read more often again. I compared my writing to yours, and found myself lacking in comparison in regards to descriptive conversation between characters and what they’d do while speaking. It’s something I should do more in my writing to be honest. So great shit!

Dialogue usually makes or breaks the stories, and it’s helping make yours!

Character customization is very deep, so i know lots of people are gonna appreciate that. Thank you for putting the time and effort to make it. I know how annoying it can be lol…

The use of the four temperaments for some reason appeals to me a lot, and its nice to see it rising with whatever your choices or reactions are! Choleric was my highest lol

Also, I noticed you gave the players the ability to later change the character details in the stats menu! Thats a really handy tool to have so you don’t gotta start all over to play again. You actually gave me an idea…thanks!
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Finally, I’d like to share some information I gave another author on here that will hopefully aid you. If it doesn’t, tell me to beat it! I expect you to do it while singing in tune with Michael tho :3

Author Tips

Finally, another big hint id love to share with you is the ChoiceScript IDE that can help you organize and find bugs quickly without having your readers hit snags in the story and be unable to continue. You right click the title of your work:
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Following this, you scroll down to the" TEST PROJECT button and press. Itll open up two option, Quick Test and Random Test.
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You hit random test to have the computer play your game for you within seconds, reporting any bugs and issues it may find within your code so your readers don’t have to!!

As you can see, it found a bug in my code that would’ve made my readers have to stop their reading and crash on them :frowning:

It says that my label tycoon1 was used twice, leading to a loop since the game wouldn’t know where to progress next. Lets check if its right…

As we can see, my *goto tycoon1 indeed tells the script to head to my *label tycoon1, which we see here…but it says there’s two? This is on line 779, and the second *label tycoon1 is located in line 718. Lets see if it exists!

Oof…We can all see my boo boo. I must’ve been coding away as i always do, and instead of placing the *goto command, i mistakenly placed the *label command which lead to the loop!!

Last tiny tidbit, when using the ChoiceScript IDE, you can use the command “CNTRL+D” to instantly give you ${}. You can also highlight a world and then use the command to encase it in the variable field!

I think that’s all for now. If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to ask. Most of the community is eager to help one another. We have a great many leaders in the forums who tend to lend a hand even when not asked ahem, hwk

Finally, the last piece of advice i can give you is to never be afraid to stand up for your work. Our moderators are only human and cant realistically keep an eye on every thread, so our duty as an author is to help them. If funny business is happening, step in as you’re now a leader in this thread for posting the story. If people are being rude, explicitly rude, that’s when we call in the mods! If some feedback isn’t helping, just say so. You wont hurt their feelings, some just wanna get their thoughts off their chest and share what they feel! And that’s perfectly normal and their feelings are valid too.

But that means your feelings are valid also. Never forget that.

AND FINALLY! I know english isn’t your first language, but bravo! You could’ve fooled me! Your english is at a fluent level in the game, it is perfectly understandable, and honestly you write better than some coworkers i have at work, and they’re supposed to be managers…

tony-stark-eye-roll

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Well Bell isn’t very nice.

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