OMG @honeylou I finally played through the update! I’ve been too sick with Covid to finish until now. But it was great & I can’t wait for the next update! 
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This. I love CYOA, it practically the only things that I have time to read nowadays. And yes, the books are interactive and you have to read it and play it like and adventure with one life. But be let’s be serious. Reading should be a relaxing activity. Just becouse you ducked up a choice and ruined your game you shouldn’t restart it and do it again. Depending on the length of the story, it can even become tedious.
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@shadowcat83 
yay! I’m so sorry you had to experience covid. I hope you are doing much better! 
@AstinFamily Love everything you just said.
A rant that is uhhh. heated.
I really don’t agree with the ‘no second chances’ philosophy the CoG decision-makers are forcing upon everyone. The story you are reading is supposed to be fun, not punishing. There are other games for that. I was going to compare the no save states to soulsborne games, but even in those you are allowed checkpoints. Having no chances of saving, no checkpoints either, is so extremely harsh, and for what reason? It doesn’t improve gameplay. CoG prides themselves on inclusivity but what about those with Parkinsons, or arthritis, that can’t control their miss-clicks? It really bothers me that they say it’s for gameplay reasons, when really, the “engine” for Cog/HG/HC hasn’t changed or improved since its inception (someone correct me if I’m wrong, I have scoured the web for info on this). If it is limitations they can’t surpass, they should say so. No one wants an excuse that is thinly veiled pandering.
I love hosted games with my whole heart, and I spread word of it like wildfire. It is a dream to publish with them. But when it comes to it, when the company is static and relies only on its authors to be progressive, you wonder where the longevity of it is too. I’d love to see their earnings reports. Is this all CoG/HG/HC will ever be? Is the burden of growth and progression always going to be put on the already stretched thin authors, and for a fee?
It is also concerning that they won’t have this discussion without prematurely ending them with “This is the way it will stay.” And not even considering that the overwhelming majority wants saves! To the point that there are multiple different browser extensions and mods that work around this!
Their silence on this has been, and I’m afraid will always be, deafening.
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It’s not a design limitation it’s a choice they’re making, especially since checkpoints are more and more common these days with the newer hosted releases
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This. The lack of a save system is the one thing that drives me absolutely crazy about HG games. It is so frustrating, but even more frustrating is the lack of space for discussion.
The vast majority of people seem to prefer a save feature, it has been asked for time and time again. And yet, the refusal to implement it is always pretty absolute - with a lackluster motivation that makes this whole thing even more maddening.
Sadly, as you said, it seems like this is an issue that the company will keep ignoring.
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@Sujan_Dhakal Imho, that makes it so, so much worse. It makes no sense at all. Hopefully they realize that sooner rather than later, when something better comes along. I would actually be sad to see a good company like CoG (including all sublabels whenever I say CoG also) wither from such a obstinate stance. But it wouldn’t be the first time a company chooses a weird hill to die on…
I wonder how long they can keep sticking their head in the sand. Who knows, maybe they will prevail, but what I know for sure after discussing this with multiple people, fans and authors alike, is that this particular topic, and how it has been handled, has left such a sour taste that they abandoned CoG all together.
And from what I have learned the past few days… Well. We will see. I’m still in the early stages of my game so I can afford to wait this out while I write, see if anything changes. CSIDE is by far the most wonderful tool to write in, and dashingdons hosting is very smooth.
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Yeah, it’s honestly exacerbated by how much their official games usually rely on micromanaging stat checks as well. They advertise that ‘failure is just another path’, but in reading their games, i find more often than not that you just get kicked in the shins for not meeting whatever arbitrary number they’ve set (obviously not all of them, as some of them manage to make failure wonderful story wise, but it would seem that the large majority instead just kick you while you’re down for failing). Having saves kills immersion a bit, sure, but so does having to find out what choice gives me whatever stat because not having enough charm means my cat dies and i end up just restarting the game anyway :\
Tac on that many authors have left to use twine for a plethora of reasons, and it feels like they’re just withholding saves for the sake of being obstinate.
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You put it so well. And what’s stopping them from implementing saves for Hosted, and not CoG? CoG operates under a different standard than HG, so keeping the same ruleset seems arbitrary (*in the tyrannical definition lmao, twisted myself into knots over this one. Ah, english my beloved) . I don’t think it is a huge secret that HG performs better than CoG anyway, so enforcing that ancient way of thinking on something that is meant to be progressive is just hindering it. They are truly just standing in the way of their own success.
I keep learning more and more about these reasons… But this isn’t the place to talk about them. I’m waiting on getting the ban hammer already. shrug Tis a shame.
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As fun as this discussion is, we should probably segment this off into a new thread or something
Eh, it’s very relevant to my story and I honestly don’t know where else to have this discussion without it being neutered. However, I think all that I needed to say has been said. If anyone else has anything to add, I don’t mind if you vent it here.
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Unfortunately, I have seen more than one thread on this completely fall flat so I don’t think that would achieve anything.
The sad thing is that this topic has been brought up time and time and time again, with the overwhelming majority of commenters in favour of the addition. And while it was pointed out by a staff member that building a save system would have required as long as years of work, we are now in 2023 without any change or definitive answer in sight.
Is this company completely against saves? Cool, we’ll make peace with that and decide based on this what to do with our own developing games.
Is this company available to implement saves? Then maybe they could work on that.
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Aight, it’s speculative evolution time. (As much as I love the convo on saves, I want to share this here too, since speculative evolution is a huge part of the world in Ouro, and I finally finished a draft for an ask that has been close to my heart!)
:') my beloveds too… I have so many sketches I need to share but the caveat is. I have to draw them first. 
For now, I’ll share some of the references I have collected and tell you a bit about them. You may or may not encounter them in the story, depending on choices, so beware if you don’t want any spoilers at all!
And before I start, yes, there are many domestic species still around, only that your dog may have antlers, or your cat may have eight legs like a spider…etc. The point of Ouro, for me, started with, wouldn’t that be cool? And it just went downhill from there.
There’s a forest-dwelling insect people known as the Thrydari (not pictured), that have a unique symbiotic relationship with a species of beetle they call the Carapacae (names still pending…I’m bad at those). These giant beetle-like creatures have evolved to grow large, hard shells on their backs that are perfectly suited to carry the small, domed homes of the Thrydari as they travel through the forest.
The Thrydari are a nomadic people, and they often travel in groups, each with their own Carapacae to carry their home. As they journey through the forest, they rely on the Carapacae to provide protection and shelter, while the Thrydari in turn care for the beetle’s needs, feeding them and ensuring they have access to water.
The Carapacae are uniquely adapted to the Thrydari’s lifestyle, with long, spindly legs that allow them to navigate and easily climb over obstacles; they traverse the forest floor as often as through the crowns of the trees. They communicate with each other through the vibrations of their long, branched anthennae. The Thrydari have another unique partnership in the forest besides their symbiotic relationship with the Carpacae! A particular species of cat-bats follow them, emitting a vibrating purr that creates a map of the surroundings with echolocation. This map, shared through vibrations as well, helps the Thrydari navigate through the dense forest, allowing them to move quickly and efficiently to avoid predators. They are large, but not larger than a toddler, so evading dangers is a must.
The cat-bats are also kept as pets by the Thrydari, who find their playful antics and affectionate nature endearing. The cat-bats have even evolved to be more domesticated, and they can often be found snuggled up with Thrydari during their downtime.
In the swampy parts of the deep, you’ll find Carivinths. The Carnivinths are not just a collection of individual predators, but rather a complex society of interdependent organisms that work together to survive and thrive in their environment. At first glance, one might see nothing more than a vast sea of waving tendrils, each tipped with sticky, finger-like structures that trap unwary prey. But upon closer inspection, it becomes clear that these tendrils are not acting independently, but rather as a coordinated whole.
Within this society, there are specialized groups of fingers that serve different functions. Some act as scouts, constantly testing the air for the scent of prey, while others act as defenders, quickly responding to threats and warding off attackers with their sharp, bone-shard-like structures. Still, others act as transporters, ferrying nutrients and water from one part of the organism to another.
But the most fascinating aspect of the Carnivinths’ society (to me, lmao, I spend too much time thinking about this bye) is their communication. Through the release of pheromones and other chemicals, the plants are able to communicate with each other in ways that we can barely fathom! They can warn each other of incoming threats, coordinate attacks on large prey, and even signal to their kin that it’s time to begin reproducing.
Despite their apparent viciousness, the Carivinths have a deep respect for the balance of nature. They don’t just hunt for the sake of it; they see themselves as an integral part of the ecosystem, one that serves an important role in maintaining the delicate balance between life and death.
The Mawscape, I call it. It isn’t known by any names by anyone in Ouro, nor is it known by anyone who has lived through the encounter, since they wouldn’t know that it was a creature to begin with. It is difficult to observe due to its size and elusiveness, but those who have come into contact with it, and entered that maw, have felt that certain sense of euphoria you get when you think about the universe for too long. Its body is too large to comprehend, the only thing visible being its maw; gaping open like the entrance to a cave. Once you venture inside, you discover a ecosystem of complex flora and fauna, with species that are unique to its particular environment; the foliage of the “trees”, which are actually arteries, are butterflies with vampiric tendencies. Other creatures have adapted to live exclusively within its gullet, feeding on the nutrients that are filtered through its massive mouth. Others reside in the twisting, organic labyrinth of its intestines, where they have evolved to tolerate the extreme pressures and temperatures found within. Not much else is known, but the fact that if you stray too far, or stay too long… The maw will close.
[find image alts, or leave a little like, on the tumblr post]
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@honeylou so cool! But I do get some creepy crawly vibes whenever bugs come onto the scene. Whether it’s residual childhood nightmares from X-Files episodes or unfortunate IRL encounters… they put me on edge. So I guess what I really want to know is this: will there be any bees or bee-like bugs or flying stinging striped scary awful terrifying bushy things at any point I should watch out for? Just so I can be prepared & not have a panic attack and pass out. Because that happens sometimes. I’m pathetic, I know. Please and thank you! 
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Not pathetic at all, we don’t control what our bodies and brains tell us to avoid (at all costs!). I’m sorry you had to go through those encounters.
I can’t tell you with certainty, as I don’t have those kinds of details planned (I go off my worldbuilding bible if I decide it’s time for an encounter), but I can tell you that if we get into creepy bug territory, I will put warnings into the story, and maybe have the option to omit those really in-depth descriptions. :>
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Thank you for understanding! I think it was one of the Relics or simila adventure books that had a TW for spiders and/or rats. If I remember it correctly, there was the option similar to some of the romance choices to either skip the scene entirely or fade to black. I hadn’t encountered that for a non-romance choice before and found it very thoughtful and beneficial, given the circumstance.
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:> No worries! That sounds great, having different scales for your interaction with it! jots it down
What also comes to mind is the game Grounded, where you could adjust a slider of how graphically accurate the spiders were in game (I used it to make them become just geometric blocks, because they were so damn scary. So you are not alone in feeling scared of insects in games and stories!!)
Also, unrelated, I edited the main post in preparation for the Ouroboros-only blog I’m creating, with a whole new intro to Ouroboros and the RO’s! . Have a look, if you want, and tell me what you think. I’ll keep sobbing over the CSS coding I have to learn to make this new tumblr look pretty. Wah-wah-wah. But I’m getting there!
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The new intro to Ouro & the ROs is fantastic!
I replayed again last night as a merc-to-hunter (I usually choose guard captain). I’m trying to remember what I choose, so I can try it all, but there’s so many options!
I am rediscovering my tumblr after years of neglect (RIP twitter). The blog customization seems like a cool feature, but then I think about the issues I’ve run into on sites like AO3 & Wordpress, esp affecting accessibility on iOS & I get too worried to try.
But I’m also not motivated enough to try to find workarounds for the iOS issues because then I’ll feel obligated to check it on desktop & if that’s messed up, well then it’s going to turn into a whole rabbit hole of fixing & checking & generally sucking my soul out my eyeballs…
Sorry. Ranting. I love coding & all that (until I don’t). But somehow, I feel like if you can handle coding a Choicescript game, you can totally rock some tumblr CSS awesomeness… 
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In my head, I keep envisioning the “Ouro-verse” as a world similar to the Neverending Story. Can there be a flying poodle-dragon, pretty please @honeylou? 
When Idren’s transformation / “unfortunate incident” is vividly remembered by the MC, it made me think of the infamous Neverending Story scene when Artax the horse sinks into the Swamp of Sadness & Atreyu can’t save him. It seems the parallels here could be quite numerous, for both Idren & the MC, depending on the paths you choose (please don’t drown Idren’s self-horse!)
I really enjoy the snarky interactions with Idren that seem to always hover on the edge of becoming a fight or another F-word… (What happened to the adult purgatory thread?)
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I’m so happy you think so! Thank you
I’m so happy you got there in time to witness horse girl movie crimes 
And I agree on your thoughts abt customization on there. I’m very tempted to just revert to a standard layout, or only having it viewable in app, because I am having trouble with mobile customization and making all the scaling listen to me. shakes fist at sky
On coding shenanigans though, I have started dabbling in other IF formats (Twine, Ren’py, Inkle) just to see how it feels. It’s fun!
Now, your next post makes me all tingly inside.
:') Yaaay!!! It is!! Neverending story is so dear to me, and while I didn’t draw inspiration directly from the novel/movie, I think it is so etched into my subconscious that it was bound to happen. I love how you drew the parallel between the swamp of sadness and the ‘unfortunate incident’!
I am frothing at the mouth to tell you some more parallels I can think of, but I’m afraid they are too spoilery haha! This discussion must be held in full when the storyline of finding L has reached its apex.
Also this… Well.
(for those that don’t know it’s an amulet called the AURYN)
EtA:
Oh dear lord, I’d love that too!! I’m writing it down
It’s up there, in the main post! Doesn’t get a lot of action, but that’s quite understandable. :>
laughs yeah, that it does. And quite often, I will give the opportunity to let it run the full course. One is coming up as soon as next update:
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To preface, I’d rather this be noted down for a much later edit stage, and not interrupt the current forward momentum. Everything is getting so good! I want to know how we’ll travel to the marsh, and lake’s edge. 
This here, is something that sticks out as needing that little something extra every time I come to it. Fortunately, I've had some time to hopefully have come up with a good sort of constructive suggestion, since it is about adding one open-ish choice.
What I mean by highlighting this specific part of the conversation with Y is that my MC’s angst is at an emotional peak, and so while there’s definitely variety here, that “something more” I’m after is a choice that can be up to reader headcanon as to why they pick it, if it ever became a thing later. The one choice more I’d like to have is to respond to Y with silence. Maybe looking away while keeping silent?
Is the MC pissed, but too polite to snap at Y for not really having an equivalent experience (that MC knows) to understanding 200 years of trauma-laced solitude?
Perhaps the MC isn’t angry at all, and is just at a loss with everything to the point they are fried for the week.
One way, or some other, any MC’s feelings here–depending on how they arrived–are raw. Pulsing in a way MC might not fully process, while each word said by others is felt as further disconnection from the reality they had to just live with for longer than anyone should have allowed. It’s all abstract, but that’s what I’d want to acknowledge for the MC’s it makes sense for. Even the ones that come peacefully may be too overwrought to really say anything, even in gratitude.
Feeling a little spicy with this take, but I’m not particularly miffed outside of general concern for MC’s wellbeing, naturally.The gratitude always felt just that side of a little misplaced to me, if only because you’d be thanking someone who decided based on a possible ‘dead lead’ (we know it isn’t, but that’s meta knowledge) to finally try calling you back to your hometown after basically acting like MC didn’t exist, and wasn’t any kind of priority no matter the “season” as acknowledged in universe as being kinda dangerous during some months of the year. It is a matter of what each reader will feel is right for their MC’s, some choices being potentially healthier than others when it comes to how MC should value themself. So the choice to let it be, and be grateful for a newly bloomed acquaintanceship with Y is still very much a good choice to make in terms of how willing they are to move forward in their life, I just don’t know how willing a willing MC should be after all that is in the current state of the game. 
As for what I’m doing with rereading now, I was planning on trying a different variation on the 
, but wanted to cover this point while it was still fresh in my thoughts. If there’s a fan club for MC, Leith is fan 0; no one is higher on that priority list of queued processes. You don’t even have to be romancing them for that to be true. It is a fundamental law of the Ouroboros universe. 
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