Okay so Fatehaven thread was getting off topic fast. Please post any remaining arguments here please.
I’m not sure how folks running the factory farms can morally defend the practices. Cutting off pigs’ tails with no pain relievers. Slamming sick or otherwise “defective” piglets into concrete walls like rag dolls until they’re dead and then tossing them on a pile of other dead piglets. Forcing pigs to leave their entire wretched lives in stalls so small they can’t even turn around. As Sam mentioned, forced insemination. Overfeeding to grotesque extremes. Etc Etc Etc This is not a happy nursery rhyme or “Old McDonald had a farm.” This is some pretty disturbing stuff, at least for me.
Then of course you have the baby male chicks, newborn, getting tossed into a shredder. Seriously, I don’t see how folks do that for a living without having (or later developing) serious emotional issues. And federal laws requiring an animal to be stunned before being slaughtered (I’d have to look at the statutory definition) don’t even apply to birds at all, so you can imagine what that looks like.
Again, like I said, if anyone wants to defend these sorts of practices, or if anyone has experience working on a farm, I’d appreciate a PM with some defenses so maybe I can write them into my scene.
I would add, that although I’m about as non-religious as a person can be, I’d be interested to see how Christians viewed the way pigs, cows, etc. are treated on factory farms. If someone truly believed that a divine being created all these unique millions of different kinds of animals, could someone really look at the factory farm examples above, and nod and say, “Yep, I think that’s exactly what God had in mind when he said we had dominion over the animals. He wanted us to cage them, kill the undesirable babies, overfeed them to insane degrees, inseminate the mommas, pull away the babies as soon as possible so we can inseminate them again.”
Why some deserve to die while others don’t?
That brings up a good case to me. While I myself would go out and hunt and kill a deer, I couldn’t bring myself to kill my dog and serve her up as ribs. And I think that has to do more with our ancestors domesticating them.
Dogs have been companions to humans ever since we lived in caves. They hunted with us, helped protect us, and gave us comfort in times of struggle. Thanks to them, we were kept fed with other animals so we didn’t have the need or desire to eat them.
The same thing applies in modern times. While most dogs aren’t helping their cavemen masters hunt down a deer, they are still the companions we had all those years ago. That’s what differenciates them from a wild boar or a shark.
Now I won’t condone the unneeded killing of an animal. If I see some dumbass kid torturing a helpless animal in the street, I’m gonna kick that little douche to the ground. Things like that, dog fighting, and animal abuse sickens me.
Killing cattle for meat is needed, however. With a planet with over 6 billion people on it, we’re going to need substanance, which includes protein and the most readily available source of that are cows, chickens, and pigs. If we weren’t killing them for food, we’d just have something else on the dinner plate like bald eagle. The reason we do, however, is because they’re herd animals and as such, their population is much greater than a bald eagle, which is why we can afford to have pork and beef products.
I don’t agree with your vegan habit, Sam, but I do respect it. The fact that you also obviously care greatly about animals give me more respect for you. I wouldn’t mind more people with your mind set.
The meaning of life?
Eating meat is an excellent way to tweak vegans while simultaneously having a delicious experience.
I am not sure what my morality has got to do with my question. Animals eat animals lower in the food chain that is nature. Also saying lions are obligate carnivores sounds like you think our intelligence the only reason we shouldn’t eat meat?
It is, in a way, thinking humans are better and can control everything, to the point of negating nature ways and forcing morals to a world that never needed them. Bears can eat both meat and vegetables, but it would be foolish to prevent them from eating fish just because they can live from berries.
What humans lack is respect for the other species. People need to think of the rest of species not as things, but as living beings. Not as tools, but as companions. If you want to eat meat, do it, but be concious that an animal had to die to feed you, and that someday, you will also die, so you better don’t take this death lightly, the same way you wouldn’t want others to take your death llike nothing happened.
So lions are your beacon of morality? Lions are obligate carnivores; they have no other choice. And if you base your morality off of lions, why don’t do any of the other things they do? Seriously, everyone. Step up your arguments.
If a human eating an animal is wrong does that mean a lion eating a gazelle is wrong? Its always interested me as animals eat other animals every day but you never hear someone damning a tiger for killing and eating another animal. Is it because us humans are considered more intelligent?
Again, veganism isn’t the one that needs to be put under a microscope. And there are millions of species of insects. Plenty of them are sentient.
So why do some animals deserve to die, and others don’t?
I’m going out right now, so I won’t be able to respond to these til later.
Yeah, but I didn’t want to mention that because he might say something about how chickens can move without their head. The difference of course is that the chicken has a central nervous system that lets it perceive pain in the first place. When a chicken has its head/brain removed, the surviving body is still alive but is demoted to the same level of intelligence as an insect. Until it keels over that is.
@jcury Couldn’t have put it better myself. After all if we weren’t eating cows or chickens or whatever then something else would be instead… That or it’ll be them eating us.
Sam there is a disorder call congenital analgesia it is a rare condition that makes someone have the inability to feel pain and they have likely never felt pain there whole life so they don’t understand pain they are just as smart as a regular person and since you’ve made it clear that you don’t care about the brain capacity of a organize as long as it can feel pain it should be treated equally would it therefore should people suffering with congenital analgesia not be treated equally due to a inability to feel pain.
I don’t think cows can become carnivouris, that sounds clearly insane
@Spector Maybe cows and chickens were bad examples… Either way if we weren’t at the “top” of the food chain then something else would be and would be doing exactly the same, it’s just nature.
You guys can’t be serious… I’ll respond to all of these in detail in a few hours.
Okay, well I think this issue is more representative of this topic: why do some animals deserve to die, but others don’t?
I honestly can’t make this any clearer. They are physically incapable of understanding pain. If you rip the head off a cockroach it is the honest equivalent of ripping the head off of a toy robot if the robot had a sensor that made it go, “head missing” as it continued to go about its day as usual.
Cockroaches can even live without heads untill they starve to death.