I don’t feel like I had tons of “space” to handle ROs as well as I wanted to. I wanted to keep the game around 250k words and have 4-5 ROs, but with so many sub-plots, things got watered down. Slammed! made ROs central to the game but outside of that, I don’t know a CoG with a well-developed RO. I hope I don’t sound too defensive–I want to learn to handle them better.
@Ominous not sure about a sequel, but it’s doubtful. I have ZE2 underway and have ideas for other games. Thanks for your support.
I atually agree with @Sylfaen, that the romance options felt a little flat-- i actually ended up not getting involved with anyone cause i dind’t feel drawn to them. (of course i freaking love the rest of the game, but i’ll get to that,
Crits aside, romances are tough. i’ve been told WW:U does it well, though it had honestly never been my intention to create dating sym. In fact Semryu was never intended to be a romance-able character, and he’s by far an away the most desired/requested. (i’m still not sure how that happened)
i think for me, most romances in CoGs fall flat b/c there’s a general lack of reciprocated interest shown to the MC as they’re reading. i never felt flirted with. Now, i realize it’s hard to put that into a game without making a MC feel uncomfortable or forced into the romance (indeed, there are some reviewers who’ve said they felt like a romance with Sem was shoved down their throats in WWU1, but as said i was just making him friendly and charming-- he wasn’t intended to be a romance, that was for jun and his friend). Anyways that’s my two cents as to why such things feel more interesting or not.
as far as the rest of the game-- this was good. like, really good. I’m impressed with the lay out of learning your Abilities, as well as the multitude of options to use/not use them. it allows for balance or excess. i’m impressed at the clear replay value, which i still fele is where many games fall short, but not here. good times. i’m gonna spend a few more days playing with this.
and on a personal note, going to the PA renfaire tomorrow. i laughed so hard when i read it in the game!
@WayWalkerLeigh I agree about ROs. I am biased toward Hosted Games which is why I mentioned no CoGs (beyond Slammed!) doing them too well. For Hosted Games, I think we do well with ROs but that also relates to the editorial process. I mean in ZE, I had all the room in the world to develop them. Not to say that’s a short-coming of CoGs. I felt more focused on WUT.
Thanks for your feedback on the rest of the game. Reviews of many other games state a lack of replay value, so I aimed to make this game offer different paths to explore.
Oh agreed, Hosted has it better in ROs but has its quirks in other places (just look at my poor editing for example, lol) that’s why i mention the flirting-- it can be a very simple tweak within the CoG confines to make ROs seem more natural. (you did say u want to handle them better. )
And you are very welcome-- balancing between good replay and mind-melting insanity is always a feat worth praising.
This is true, but sadly many gamers don’t like it especially when you have male RO’s flirting with male PC’s. I remember one line Anders said to male players kicking up a shitstorm over it on the forums over there.
It’s damned if you do damned if you don’t. If you do the subset of players who don’t like romance at a game are going to feel it detracts from the game.
On the other hand if you only have the female character’s flirt with the male pc by default, people like me aren’t going to like your double standard.
What, how can you say that he’s one of the best romances I’ve had in a game on this site, so far. You big meany.
Can’t wait to prank him, hope you’ve kept that option.
you know though, the flirting uncertainty can easily be gotten past-- no one has ever complained that Umbrave or Sem were ‘flirting too hard’ in Way Walkers. (the one who complained about sem being shoved at them was female, oddly enough) As said, its about toeing the line between flirting and friendly. kate never felt even very friendly to me, neither did olivia or raj or any of them, despite the fact that i choose bisextual at the start. in fact, simply choosing a sexuality from the beginning should give the writer a chance to create a slightly tweaked set of intro dialogs with a character-- its a bitch to code, but you can do it. Females are more flirty if yr into women, men are more so if yr into men, ya get both if yr into both, or none if not interested in ROs at all. solved. (albeit its easier said than done, i know)
And yeah, no, Sem was never meant to be the great male lead. the original plan for romance in WWU had been a love triangle between the MC, Jun and Ay’cure(a). Sem was never even factored in, until i hit the forums and realized i had to change the game plan, and big time. Though i must say im happy with the result–and i plan on having good ROs for the rest of my choicscript career, however long that will be.
and yes, i plan on keeping that bit of fun. poor clay. XD
The fact it was unplanned may be what makes Sem so effective as a romance option. The fact he was not carefully crafted to appeal to and interact with the MC in traditionally romantic way made the interactions organic and the relationship more genuine. The friends-to-lovers trope is a very popular one for a reason. It absolutely requires there won’t be too much UST or flirting at first, to allow for an easy and natural camaraderie and emotional intimacy without any ‘ulterior motives’.
Sem is a pushy character in general, being the Main Plot NPC. I always found it part of his obnoxious charm, and most of the fans seem to agree.
The NPCs in general in Wise Use of Time felt, well, very much like game NPCs. They gave you side-quests and had maybe exposition, but they mostly felt like flavor taste. They were not interchangeable and I certainly had reactions to them - Olivia was a great BFF, Raj was exasperating, Kate was relatable etc’ - but they were always very low key and never really burst to life.
Actually, the entire game was generally very mild and detached, even in tense scenes. It was hugely entertaining in a simulation sense, balancing your daily life and having tons of freedom in your choices, so the game elements were great and amount of variables impressive. The story just wasn’t very immersive to me - the prose was polished but not absorbing or powerful.
I played Versus just before this one so that really stands out to me - the gamebook vs interactive fiction style. It’s a matter of personal preference, and certainly this game is very well done and a fun play, with plenty of replayability and a satisfying conclusion.
1st playthrough:
Intelligence focused character.
Goaded Barnabas to let me grow.
Slowed down time gained.
Worked with the professor, gained single stop power
Battled Barnabas, managed to defeat him. Saved Jeremy.
Couldn’t convince Aisha to help
About 73% control of power.
2nd battle, tried to control time, Jeremy got squashed.
Tried to focus but Barnaby overpowered me.
2nd playthrough.
Intelligence focus again, physical instead of social.
Pretty much goes the same way, except I bluff that I’m more powerful to Barnabas.
He beats my ass.
Get the focused current abilities from professor.
2nd battle, he beats me again. Kills Jeremy.
At the fair, 78% control.
Direct attack him.
Stomps my ass again and says he’s tired of me.
My plan is to use a modified version of playthrough one but using the power every chance I get. It’s that fair battle that kicks my ass, if Jeremy dies, there goes my chance. Probably is also a way to convince Aisha and that would help but we’ll see.
And just wanted to say you’re my favorite author on CoG. You have a way of humanizing characters that I find appealing.
Agreed. I think there’s a certain amount of “pressure” within CoGs to “create” a romancable character within the limits of the single game vs trying to just make a dynamic character. That’s why the friendship that catches fire can work better over the course of multiple games within hosted.
No worries about sounding defensive, I was worried I was sounding to harsh after I posted that. As for CoGs with good romance, they are few and far between. I’d say Slammed!, Choice of Robots, Mecha Ace, and Psy High are the ones that really drew me in. But that was about it.
Romance is just a huge pain to write well, in my opinion. It’s why I always avoid it and never bothered to try to make a ChoiceScript game (you’re all voracious for romance).
In terms of WUOT, I think I’ve nearly gotten a ‘perfect’ playthrough complete. I thought I had one but Alisha didn’t want to stay and chill with me. Perfect as in keeping Raj out of trouble, funding the Doc, getting Olivia her apprenticeship, and whatnot.
@WayWalkerLeigh
A lot of side characters always seem to draw more interest as romance-options than the actual ROs. I know I usually post after a new Choice game is released saying I wanted some obligatory side character to be an RO.
Also Umbrave flirted with us? When the hell did this happen?
@anon11888245
Why are you directly attacking him when your strongest skill is intellect? Sure in your 2nd go you had a secondary focus on physical but it isn’t that high. What always seems to work for me on my intellect playthroughs is getting the good Doctor to boost the potency of my powers, then just wresting control of time away from Barney.
@JimD on a side note i can say that zombie exodus for me was better, your writing is amazing in both games, but zombie exodus exploit more the characters and interaction while this one is more centered in the powers…and certain scenes seem a bit force to our mc, like " telling the truth to ours roonmates, that doctor…" but still is a nice job, so gz
@Sylfaen – yes, I still get requests for Genoa Martel, miles rhenold and even Illyan herself. XD
And that’s just my point-- umbrave wasn’t ‘flirting’ anymore than sem or kess or any other romance option, he was simply friendly and the MC filled in the blanks in their own heads. Basically you just got to give just enough traction for the reader to go, oooo, want to get to know that.
Oh, my poison! If Sem wasnt a RO I had been very pissed he is so cute charmin awesome, esactly as Cullen
Now returning topic, I finally ended the game once. And even if the theme is far my taste. It’s well done even if I get a weird epilogue. Maybe is it a glitch?
I control my powers not using it if i have chose of not powers. I decide suppressed them. I don’t help the casino guy etc… Game noted it. But the rest of ending is myself becoming the new batman chasing criminals when police cannot. And rummors about a superhero dominate city even if noone knows who is she. It has no sense with my character .
Twilight? ?? I never watch or read that stuff. Cullen is a templar in Dragon age series . I hate vegetarian vampires they are lame and idiots new era hippies!!
@Jackrabbit in hindsight I should have focused on 1-2 main storylines instead of one major storyline and numerous subplots. NPCs for me were kind of quest-givers though I tried to make them complex and troubled. Maybe they were detached because you had to initiate getting to know them. I didn’t want to railroad players into relationships.
What aspect(s) of Versus stood out? Zachary is great at this style of game, so I’m definitely trying to learn from his writing.
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