Musings on Two Horrid Systems


#1

You’re brave, I can’t get myself to play any new order path. Both Fascists and ultra-conservative authoritarians are and were absolutely horrible to gay guys. :unamused:


United We Stand - Political WIP
#2

Not all Fascists. Some were sensible, and couldn’t give two shits about sexuality.


#3

I find nothing about Fascism, to be remotely sensible. Right-wing conservative authoritarianism can make some sense, in a cruel and shitty way to help the “bad hombres” maintain a lock on power. But ideological Fascism has no redeeming points as an ideology.

As for those you call sensible they may not have given two shits about sexuality but they didn’t give two shits about rounding up, imprisoning, executing and performing all sorts of involuntary medical experiments on gay guys at the behest of their allies and keys to power.


#4

I said nothing about Fascism itself being a sensible system, I merely stated that anyone sensible wouldn’t care about sexuality.

Why are you taking this to such a different place? I also didn’t say that all Fascists were sensible, either.


#5

The “sensible” fascists also didn’t give two shits about persecuting or at the very least letting sexual minorities be persecuted by their allies or the system that empowered them. Thus they made a conscious choice to allow this sort of nonsense out of a lust for power, money or influence. They are not the blameless victims you seem to believe they are.

Not many sensible people among the hard-core Fascists I’m afraid. Plenty of sensible people, mostly on the Conservative side, but some on the left too who were willing to cover up or pardon fascist crimes after it was all over and the dust had settled. None more so then what they did to the LGBT population. :disappointed:

Because this is much the same as with the apolitical Christians, the “sensible” fascists, assuming they existed at all may not personally hate gay people, but they are ever willing to stand aside and let the worst of their brethren take the reins, politically and in the public sphere on the gay issue.

Discarding the well-known crimes of the Nazi’s for a moment, here is what the “sensible” Fascists in Spain did to their gay population, which incidentally may serve as a model for some of the things the “moderate” New Order option may have in store for gay people:

Bah, this issue is too sensitive for me, if you want more take it to PM.


#6

…that doesn’t make sense. What do apolitical Christians have to do with the topic at hand?

Gonna have to pass, as you’re going all over the place with issues, instead of the conversation at hand.


#7

My honest friendly advice? In the future, when in the presence of people from countries or minorities that suffered horrors ar the hands of fascists (Portugal was a mild version of fascism, and you start reading or hearing the stories of people who were arrested and tortured by fascists, and you will cry), avoid at all times, out of respect, to say that some fascists were sensible people.

If someone believes or supports a system where others are persecuted, arrested, tortured and killed because of their political or religious beliefs, sexuality, life choices, and race or nationality, they aren’t sensible, far from it.

And this is all I am saying on the subject. Everyone of us is bound to end up making a comment that might strike a personal note or offend other users, apologizing or politely and cautiously explaining a bit better what we meant (if it wasn’t exactly what offended others) is the sensible route to take, whether we understand or not their feelings on the subject.

Just to be clear, I am not criticizing you, I am just explaining why your comment might be taken as offensive, so that we can all have an healthy coexistence, which is certainly the goal of us all. :slight_smile:


#8

Can… Can people stop arguing about Fascists vs communists vs anarchists please?

This is a thread about a game, and if it’s fun or not. If their fascists being more inclusive than normal fascists hurts your suspension of disbelief, just imagine that they’re only calling themselves fascists because it’s a popular at this point in history, and actually came up with their own homespun neo-con belief system.


#9

In the future, when in the presence of people from countries or minorities that suffered horrors ar the hands of fascists (Portugal was a mild version of fascism, and you start reading or hearing the stories of people who were arrested and tortured by fascists, and you will cry), avoid at all times, out of respect, to say that some fascists were sensible people.

Same with people saying “communism isn’t that bad”… Remember that communism killed more people than fascism and half of Europe was under communist rule for tens of years, my country included.


#10

@readher
But that is totally different


#11

@Eiwynn roger that Red Leader


#12

Did I said anything about that?


#13

You didn’t and that’s part of the problem I’ve been touching. People here quickly point out any attempt to put fascism in a more bright light, while that doesn’t really happen when communism is praised. My country experianced both nazism and communism and was treated terribly by both, but there are countries like Latvia or Estonia where Germans were treated as liberators due to what they experienced during communist rule, even though they didn’t like Germans that much. And that’s with nazis who were much worse than fascists.


#14

Why should I? The discussion is about fascism, why on earth would I mention communism? Were we talking about communism, I would.

Aye, and in my country communists can be seen as the heroes because they ended the fascist dictatorship that arrested, tortured and caused the death of our neighbors and family members. Every country has a bigger antipathy toward one or the other, I just don’t understand why ever talk about fascism needs to end in the classic “fascism vs communism: which is worse?” debate. It’s not as if who criticizes fascism is communist. They are both evil, that’s not the point. I dislike boiled fish the same way I dislike wine. Do I need to state my disliking for boiled fish when I state my disliking for wine?

And besides, I already said my piece on this topic. I will not continue further, much less if we are going down the cliche route of trying to abate the evils of fascism by comparing it with other evil systems.


#15

Well They are two horrid systems if somebody didnt notice my sarcasm.
Point being BOTH ARE HORRIBLE SYSTEMS.
wouldnt do to try to put Communism into better light while RIGHFULLY pointing out just how horrible fascism was


#17