More Things in Heaven & Earth – WIP (Updated 19th Mar 2021)

Do readers need substantial knowledge about Hamlet to be able to grasp the story?

@redfield I hope not! I think it would probably be more enjoyable to someone familiar with the play - I find seeing any characters reimagined is more satisfying for knowing the original. That said, I’ve tried to deliver enough exposition and write it in a way that would still appeal to a reader that doesn’t know the play. I would love to hear whether you think it works without the background of the play or whether you think it needs more exposition when you read, though :slight_smile:

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This is such a charming WIP, I loved every screen of it! Although my memory of the original is quite hazy, I think I have been able to keep up so far. The stat amount and selection is intriguing, and I cannot wait to see how going yikes on fighting is going to come back and bite me in the future!

I really enjoyed the fast pace so far and the number of choices and options, though I wish certain bits like the picnic chat were longer.

What stuck out to me was the dress choice for the funeral: how vague yet descriptive the options were, just enough to convey the point and give plenty of room for imagination! And how the option to just hold Hamlet’s hand throughout the ceremony was handled… It is not often that silence is treated as a valid response that is emotionally loaded enough, and here it was such an endearing scene that I was happy I chose!

Feedback responses

What do you think of the characters?
I am a bit unsure of my grasp on Hamlet’s character. He quotes poetry in length, but on occasion he does seems quite a bit more somber. Is that only a by-product of his unfortunate mental state?

Reynaldo basically grappled his way to my personal top with his shit-eating grin through Ophelia’s hissy fit at the end of the demo, and I love it!

I have intentionally kept the appearance of Ophelia and most other characters ~vague~ so that readers can project their own preferences – does that work or is having a clearer idea of what characters look like more helpful?
I find that there are games in here where that work quite well with only few descriptions of the MC, and I suspect it has to do with stories about pre-established characters. Either way, I didn’t even notice the lack of the usual appearance customization segment.

As to ROs, I do agree with you, personally I prefer those on the vague side.

Is the exposition too tedious? I didn’t want to linger for too long on what is essentially prologue, but also wanted to give the reader time to get to know/shape the characters a bit before we dive right in to Act 2. Please tell me if you spot any continuity errors!

Did we enter act 2 already, or is the entire available story so far exposition?

I am very excited for the updates to this story!!

I did some code diving to get some quick answers, and that was fun and intriguing to go through as well :smiley:

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Thank you for your very kind comments! I am so glad that people seem to be enjoying it so far - I was a bit nervous about posting to a forum full of writers when I definitely don’t consider myself one, but everyone has been very encouraging.

Did we enter act 2 already, or is the entire available story so far exposition?

@oddity Ophelia’s conversation with Polonius right at the end of this first demo is in Act 2, but that’s about it. She has a discussion with her father about Hamlet’s weird behaviour and that is basically the first canon thing that happens in my rendition - everything else has been “prologue”. The events of Act 1 of the play happen during the 6 month timeskip after the funeral, but most of the demo is either not featured in the play or not canon at all.

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Oh, I’m into it.

I don’t remember much about Hamlet, but I’m still intrigued!

It’s also nice to see a gender-locked story with a WOMAN for a change. I swear almost all the gender-locked stories are for male MCs.

Also, I saw some comments saying they’d like more build up between Hamlet & Ophelia, but my understanding is they’ve been friends for years before the story began, right? So the build up basically happened off-screen?

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It is true that Ophelia knows Hamlet. However, as the player have hardly even met him at that point. There is a connection, but we are shown so little that it can come off a little flat. I am romancing him anyway because he is adorable. Still I think a few more interactions would help

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So the build up basically happened off-screen?

@bric Yes, and that’s definitely how things go down in the play. I think the argument for more interaction in this WIP is, as @Peli explains, that as a player who needs to be actively involved in the romance, more background would be beneficial for creating that ~buy in~. That said, there are 5 other LIs so the player doesn’t actually ~have~ to have any attachment to Hamlet for the story to work if they aren’t feeling it.

For the next update, I’m writing Ophelia and Hamlet’s “friendship” into the stat choice scenes so their background will hopefully be a bit more clear. Debating extending the courtyard scene with Ophelia and her pals (partly because Guildenstern gets really short shrift in that scene at the moment!) but waiting for ~inspiration~ to strike haha!

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I would like to note that I’m not familiar with hamlet story but I enjoyed the demo

First of all, as someone who didn’t read the novel, I would like to see more world-building

Hamlet confession

Summary

tbh it didn’t feel like anything at first, I would have considered it cringey since I didn’t explore more of him but I found it cute as I got to know him after I replayed several times since we interact more with him after he confesses. I loved that it wasn’t like just “I love you” ~and that’s it deal with it~ rather he was more passionate about it

Likes\Dislikes

Summary

-I didn’t like how the time skip felt kinda rushed if you would give us more time to get a better understanding of the story and the characters since we’re supposed to build relationships with them

-I didn’t like that the interactions were brief and that we didn’t get the choice to reply at some point so it felt like reading rather than playing and got me a Lil out of the story, I’m certainly not saying to get the choice to reply to every sentence the characters says, I wish we get more choices in act 2

-I like the way you write I’m not sure how to describe it but maybe catchy and pleasant?..! would do the job, and the spelling errors are very rare which keep me with the story(as someone who makes a lot of spelling errors)

-I liked that you gave us a brief introduction to each character so I kind of imagined their faces from their characters (For example a stoic butler expression for Reynaldo)

About the characters

Summary

-So far I liked Hamlet personality and attitude as I said I’m not familiar with the story but I think the way you portrayed Hamlet as a playful and honest person is great and matches the vibes I get from him. I’m sure we will get the chance to know the others more in act 2

-I wonder about our brother role in the story, but so far he seems to like us. he is one of the characters I’m curious about

-Is Reynaldo a Ro does he have a crush on Ophelia? his attitude gives me this feeling, I’m really curious about him? Why is he so hostile around us

Ophelia Gender and Characters appearances

Summary

I personally don’t mind that Ophelia’s gender-locked however, I would like to get descriptions like (eye colour \ hair length, color\height) and for it to be mentioned since it gives more depth to both the story and character identity. in the other hand, I don’t mind the other characters description being vague

More Feedback

Summary

-Can we get the option to share how we feel about the king death

-Can we pretend to share the same feelings with hamlet while attempting to use him Also, be able to not confirm our feelings nor deny it

-Can we get to know and interact with the people around us more? For example at the dining scene with our brother and father, you could open more room for a conversation and the way we choose to respond to them (with sarcasm, stoically, kindly) and the way Ophelia feel about having dinner with them if their relationship is chaotic
I fell more in control if given the chance to respond and interact or the way I want to act in certain scenes

Is this kind of feedback acceptable?is there any other kind of feedback you need?
Do you have a Tumblr for the game? or plan on setting one up

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thaaaaaaaank you both for such detailed feedback! this is like gold dust for me (since i very clearly have no idea what i am doing hahaha)

@MASSO your feedback was excellent, thank you for taking the time to write it! honestly i am open to feedback on any part of the game so if there is anything else that will improve your experience then feel free to make suggestions! i made a tumblr today for posting updates, so you can link up there: morethingsgame.tumblr.com

I didn’t like how the time skip felt kinda rushed

i totally take this point - i was SO worried that i was delivering too much exposition before i link up with the actual events of the play but i’ve decided i’m going to just lean right into it. i’ve already added a bit more background by adding some background to hamlet/ophelia’s friendship during the stat choice section, but i also want to expand the courtyard friends crew scene at some point and do a bit more scene setting at the start in a future update.

Is Reynaldo a Ro does he have a crush on Ophelia? his attitude gives me this feeling, I’m really curious about him? Why is he so hostile around us

all good questions! reynaldo IS an RO but i don’t want to give too much away just yet.

@fisheye thank you for your comments! i’ve fixed the stats choice issue with the talking option :slight_smile:

I like that MC appearance is left unspecified so I can imagine it how I want.

people seem to have polarised opinions on this, but i think i’ve settled on keeping ophelia unspecified. if i did add a character creation section in then it wouldn’t serve any plot purpose, so i think i’m going to leave it out unless i think of a reason that might make it necessary.

thanks again for your comments and feel free to check in on my tumblr for more regular updates :slight_smile:

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Okay, my first major update is live!

We’re now up to around 48,000 words. I’ve expanded upon the prologue content a little, although there is more that I still want to do with it in future updates. I have also added the first half of the day one content, including a choice of 3 ways for Ophelia to spend her morning.

As ever, let me know what you think here or on tumblr :slight_smile:

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Lovely, the rewrites really helped with the establishment of the relationships and got us to get to know your version of the characters.
Also respect for the shire magnitude of the possible interactions. It makes the replay value higher than many other games. (Also just because I need to play ALL the routes )
I am looking forward for more:)!

Love it :heart: all ros look very interesting, looking forward future updates :wink:

Sometimes the pronouns are male when the character is female :thinking::blush:

I haven’t read the story of Hamlet since high-school but I really like how this is going :laughing: Will this wip also have some similarities to the play?

This is a really intriguing premise! I’m really a big fan of this idea of taking a classic story and framing it from someone else’s point of view.

One thing I notice, though, is that there seem to be some coding issues involved with Hamlet’s romantic interactions. From what I could tell from looking at the code, each RO has two variables tied to romance (e.g. hamlet_ro and hamlet_romance), and I’m not entirely sure what the difference is. (My guess is that the former determines whether a character is available to romance whereas the latter determines whether or not you’re currently pursuing that character?)

Regardless, declaring that you’re not attracted to Hamlet (in the choice to determine your sexuality) affects only his ro variable, not his romance variable—which is a problem, because hamlet_romance is set to true by default. I’m guessing this is because Hamlet has feelings for Ophelia no matter what you do (which is fine), but the result is that romance-related narration and available choices get triggered even if you say you’re not attracted to him, and there’s no way to change this until the “awoken” scene. For the first few scenes, a fair bit of fluttering goes on in Ophelia’s chest when Hamet’s around, even if she’s a lesbian.

Otherwise, I think this is off to a good start, and I’m really interested to see where it’s going.

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I barely remember Hamlet but I already bookmarked this wip! I love getting to change an original story completely.

As for feedback
A save systems would truly help to test the game
I would also not mind more shy or politely reserved response overall.

Summary
  • Like when you stumble upon Reynaldo a choice to be truly polite (with no sarcasm in responding) but just pass without helping him would be nice.
  • When you are sat beside Hamlet adding a choice to respond shyly when he talk to you stealing the place. Or even a kind one inviting Horatio to take your place.
    (Also side note but is the blushing option when Horatio flirt with you count as romance point with him? My Ophelia would blush just because she is shy)
  • Can we tell the king we will do as he say just to appease him. But basically play double agent and help Hamlet instead ? Like the choices seemed to be either you openly refuse or you agree. But since Ophelia know that Hamlet suspect Claudius of murdering his father a cautious one (or just one that is always team Hamlet like mine lol) could pretend to accept but work behind his back.

Here come the totally optional one that you should not mind but I just think it would be neat.

  • Could we have just a tiny choice/more like text change if we return Hamlet feelings to nod/smile at him when he confessed? Like let him know we love him back.
  • Can we give like a head kiss to Hamlet if he sleep in your bed? Sorry but that scene was so cute and this is totally a things my kind Ophelia would do as she put the blanket over Hamlet and wish him goodnight.
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Thanks so much for your feedback everyone - all comments are super useful for me :slight_smile:

Will this wip also have some similarities to the play?

@Pa_Chia_Vang - Totally! Some parts will be more similar than others and it depends entirely on what choices Ophelia makes as to how similar it will actually end up being, but there will definitely be parallels and scenes that correspond to those from the play.

there seem to be some coding issues involved with Hamlet’s romantic interactions

@CorvusWitchcraft - Thank you for taking the time to look at this! You’re totally right. I added the two different variables so that Ophelia wouldn’t automatically be romancing everyone of her sexuality preference until she had the choice to stop (if that makes sense?) but totally forgot to update poor Hamlet when I did.

Which option should be chosen to stay polite but not tell him anything about Hamlet?

@fisheye - This is a good point - I had intended to make Ophelia’s response a personality check for this point, but looks like I messed up the coding! I’ll add that to the next update (so that Ophelia can choose to tell Reynaldo nothing but not be, like, a total dick about it).

I would also not mind more shy or politely reserved response overall.

@Asterya1 - Good call! I think I’ll add some more personality-specific options toward the start and potentially bulk up the number of choices in this early Reynaldo scene and the courtyard scene with Hamlet & co.

Ophelia can totally play double agent to the King - there will be a few ways that she can do it. In the afternoon of the same day, there’s a Hamlet scene where she will have the option to tell him everything that the King asked and they can concoct a plan together. Alternatively, she can try to communicate it to Hamlet during the “mission” itself (although that will be much harder to do and involve some skill checks because… well, Hamlet is not the most observant guy).
Love the head kiss idea - I’ll totally add that in the next update haha :slight_smile:

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I love the premise of this WIP and this new update was a lot of fun! I especially really enjoy the dialogue, it feels real and enjoyable to read. Can’t wait for future updates! I feel so bad for Hamlet and his declining mental health but I hope he can get help in the future! I remember reading the play in high school and feeling so bad for him haha.

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Okay, I am super curious about which ROs readers are finding most compelling so far, so I’m throwing down a poll. And who doesn’t love a poll, right?

RO Faves
  • Hamlet
  • Horatio
  • Reynaldo
  • Rosencrantz
  • Guildenstern
  • Marcella
  • None of them, I just want to watch the world burn

0 voters

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Hello! The update was great, I feel like I got a much better introduction to the characters with the party scene!

There’s also something wonky with polonius and the throne room scene, unfortunately.

After I say that Hamlet is just grieving Polonius says that I told him Hamlet came to my room. There was no scene where this even could have happened. The closest I got was talking to Reynaldo about how I was kinda worried before he left and it jumped straight to dear old dad “slamming the door pointedly” and Marcella hovering outside the room. Also after polonius is dismissed (I accused him of lying if that makes any difference), when I chose to say I’d help the king I got the refusal scene instead.

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Will we get the “get thee to a nunnery” scene if we choose the right choices for it?

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I feel like I got a much better introduction to the characters with the party scene!

@ApplePi Aw yay - I’m glad the new additions did as I hoped! Thank you for flagging the coding weirdness - there are a few wonky bits I’m hoping to fix this weekend so fingers crossed it’ll all be square soon :slight_smile:

Will we get the “get thee to a nunnery” scene if we choose the right choices for it?

@UwU hell yes! There are a couple of ways to get this particular scene, but all of them involve going to see the King and Queen at court when given the choice between that and hanging with Rosencrantz/Guildenstern/Marcella.

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