Monsters(WIP)- updated 04/27/17 -Link is updated



@buggygirl11 Oh yeah, i forgot that particular part about Jack. Although i do think that he wasn’t entirely sincere with his line that outsie world is “ten times worse”. In some cases it fits, but still it is killing innocent people. He does greatly appreciate that they are there to back him up, consider his previous experiences. But still i got a feel from him that he doesnt consider it the best life for him. That he couldnt do better.

I do see likeable qualities in them, afterall i needed to have thoughts of liking them in the first place to trigger that response :slight_smile: , just in my round up i focused more on their problems, i think. They are still humans (mostly :stuck_out_tongue: ) I have my own life experiences that influence a lot of my views and feelings here. It’s not that i’m uncomfortable with the idea they have good qualities. I think i’m more uncomfortable with the idea that i could like them despite the amount of suffering they cause to others. And uncomfortable part comes from the thing that i’m afraid i could…
Ok, that was a little to deep into the convoluted mess of my thoughts, for the game open forum :stuck_out_tongue:

Well, i’m not a lawyer, but from my meager understanding thats how it would work with this situation, performing the act under duress, with all the circumstances. There surely still would be a trial, but in the end the ones accountable for murder would be the cult?
And here, they already get rid of all evidence, so the murder charge is not so obvious anymore.
Although really, it would require someone with extensive law background to actually answer all that, as the case is so specific, the general law would be less applicable and judge would take into consideration quite a lot of variables here. Maybe you would still face some punishment? but surely much less than for outright murder.
And i do think that from the more moral side, thats how it would work atleast. I could see how the MC could not feel responsible for Gary’s death.


A most entertaining read. ^ _ ^ Thank you very much.

One thing I plan to maintain through the story is plausible deniability. The uncertain question of if any part of the story is supernatural in any form, or perfectly explainable rationally. I personally think that it helps the story to keep that a question, rather than an answer. I plan to delve much further into the various characters’ personal reasonings and, well, depth of character, as the story continues. I’d like to add expansion to MC reactions… eventually. Coming back at some point and adding more variety in emotions; more and less- but there will still be some points where the game takes the character out of the MC’s hands a little. I’m not sure if it’s the case for everyone, but - pulling an example from my own life, I remember from my time in the military moments where I did not feel entirely under my own influence; angrier as a person… or a time when I became extremely callous. Perhaps people who are not in extreme circumstances don’t understand that sometimes the thing you want to do in your head isn’t the thing you end up doing. It’s the circumstance that leads to regret, and maybe it is something that only applies to some people and not others. A person who is not blind may be able to empathize with a blind character, but could not truly -know- what it is like except by imagination. So it goes, perhaps, with feeling out of control of oneself. It’s true that I want things like, for instance, the possibility of more regret for what happened to Gary, or more snapback with Sonya on MC’s emotions- but sometimes the player leads the character into things that aren’t so easy to budge. Something like, after falling for a character, falling back out of that state, may not be as easy for an MC as it might be for the player of the MC- and that’s the point where I’ll just need to ask people to trust me, until the game gets finished and a full revision polish run over it. Same goes for other things, as well- revenge, forgiveness, depression, and so on. I want to add more choice, and more variety of reaction- eventually, but there’s also going to be a lot more of times where the choice is no longer in the player’s hands- they’ve already made their bed with deciding the character’s personality through past choices. A player that really doesn’t want a character to do something, but the player understanding why they do and seeing how it’s they caused it, is the sort of thing I would like, when it comes to Monsters.

An interesting thought: How would you describe a painting? Would it take a proverbial thousand words to do so? With the characters, I can bring up a little here or there about one or another, but the most powerful description for the characters is the story itself. Sometimes, the fastest way to describe them is by writing more story. I need to get the stuff that’s in my head, to you, in a sensible way. To me, nothing in the story doesn’t make any sense- but sometimes what’s in my head is future information. Which I need to make sure I cover, at some point, or it will never get conveyed properly.

Sometimes, thoughts about characters are correct. Sometimes they don’t have enough information, but thoughts are sensible with what’s given. Sometimes people think things that are off base. Whatever the case, the story is the best medium I have to communicate the characters to you, and some amount of information is bound to be lost on both sides, - both me in conveying it properly, and a reader picking up on all the context and sub-context. Heck, sometimes someone will just have life experiences that make a certain character sharply make much more sense than to someone else who ‘kinda gets it’. Not like the ‘kinda gets it’ is at fault or to blame- heck, they’re probably the lucky one in some ways. But then again, I can only write things that I can concieve of myself, so some things will probably be different from how you would write things if you decided to write a fanfiction or such. XD glances at certain people Thing is, thinking about things your own way, deciding things your own way- that’s totally valid. I might spoil your notions sometime later with further information, but I like when people think about things in the story no matter how close or far off they are.

To @Ponku and @pimenita and @buggygirl11 - I appreciate your thoughts on the NPCs and your perspectives about the MCs. I know how the FBI must feel - ‘I can neither confirm nor deny the validity of that statement’. For your thoughts on the various characters, this must be the case. Though I hope to, at least a little, explain more to you through the story itself, when I get moving forward with it again. I don’t know how to explain this very well, but one of the most important things that has influenced my life are things (in a general sense) that teach life lessons, and are experiences about life. There are certain things that pass this along, from one person to another, not by telling, but by showing. Anime, music, good books, sometimes games and movies. It’s a thing that, at least for me, I’ve come to be able to know when I see it. And it’s something not all art and entertainment can do (or, at least, do well). If I can, I intend to make Monsters a story that connects with people in individual ways. Maybe not all of it; maybe the character connection isn’t perfect, and such- but I want it to be the kind of story that makes you take your own experiences in life and apply them, learning a little about yourself in the process. I feel like a proud sensei if I, through my writing, coax someone to look at something from an angle they had not considered before. Even if it’s not a fundamental change, or anything resembling a change- the consideration of something challenging, at length, is rewarding to me as a writer and… as a person, trying to pass on a little something here or there about life.

I do believe that people can fundamentally change over time. I also think that change is rarely dramatically sudden, and only stands up through the challenge of time. And that it is often hard to see it happening, and only truly visible in hindsight.

I’d like to pose a thought. Is love a choice? To be more specific, let’s define it as the romantic love of being attracted to someone- and pose it in the context of a CS game. Or, maybe I’m phrasing it wrong… have any of you ever been in love when you haven’t wanted to be in love? raises hand That’s happened to me more than once, so if my life were a CS game, and the voice inside my head was a player repeatedly selecting a ‘no, this person is bad for you, stop being so miserable!’ choice… the me of the time would have failed at having the stats to succeed at that choice. In a sense, I would have been out of my own hands and limited in what I could do. If someone else jumped into my head… assuming there was any autonomy left to me after that, with just a limited experience of things through my perspective, but without all of my thoughts and memories, someone else might easily be able to get me out of heartbreak… but I, myself, couldn’t. That’s where I question the difference between character, and player. Does it make sense that, from my own experience in life, I think it ironic to show that sometimes the character can play the player- simply by being how they are? I want to explore the concept of meta knowledge, though doubtful I’ll have any good opportunities any time soon. Essentially, what I mean by that, is that there’s a difference between what a character knows and what a player knows. Just like, and I’m not sure this is something everyone truly understands, there can be a difference between what someone wants to do, and what they do. What reason is there for there to be a difference, rather than exactly what’s decided upon? It’s a bit like, if someone popped into my head, and again assuming I have any autonomy left- if someone tried to make me smoke anything, I’d tell the voice in my head to fuck off, and squarely say no. If it were a game… would the choice to try convincing me to do so be something that should be written in? What are your thoughts? There was a time in my life, where I chose not to drink at all. I rarely do, but even so, at one point, I decided to give in and try it. Why would I do that, I ask myself, yet still never want to smoke? Why give in on one thing, and not another? Someone else might give in… but if someone else were playing my life as a game full of choices and did so when it would not be ‘me’ to do so, would they be me, or would I be them?

So it goes with me wondering about Monsters. Because not everyone will be able to think about it from the perspective of having my thoughts on the matter- how much should the player control the character… and how much should the character control the character? Let’s explore some thought-experiment examples: Let’s say a player has made choices that give a character a very high lust stat - 75+ or what-have-you. Now let’s say a character (it doesn’t matter which) propositions the character, but the player isn’t interested. Oh, but the character is. Clearly the player has made the character someone who would be interested, even if the player would not be. - Another example: A player creates a psychopath character, who sees an advantage to be gained by causing great misfortune to a character the player likes. The player doesn’t want the character to do the thing, but the character would, because the player sculpted them to be that way and isn’t going to have a stroke of conscience just because the player does.

The situation with Gary is an example of this. Rather, that some MC’s -can’t- kill Gary, because of how they’ve been played… just as some people wouldn’t be able to, even if they knew it was the only way they could survive. Yet on the flipside, all of those who could always have the option not to. Some might die for deciding not to, some might not. Suppose either of the following scenarios were true: In the first, let’s say I make every MC able to make a choice that could kill Gary. In the second, let’s say I make some characters ONLY able to kill Gary, and not able to choose not to. In either case… would the story be better?

Some things should expand, in the future, but I think the game is stronger with ‘chosen character autonomy’. Which is philosophical, as much as a matter of practicality in scripting. I mean, I could do more variety than I have even now… it would just be even slower progress. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: It’s got to be fair to say, though, that I don’t know what I actually will expand on until I actually do. Eg, NPC reactions, MC individuality, additional choice options, ect. For now, what is, is, until it is more. XD And eventually… it will be more.

Anyway- doing a 90* turn… in other news: I’ve had a toothache which has been driving me to distraction the past few days. A constant dull to medium ache. I very much ought to consult a dentist soon, rather than later, but I also very much would like to put it off until after turning in my CScomp, which I’m still in the process of working on (and will be right up to the deadline). Certain… issues… regarding it, have been solved, but there is much work left to be done.


How can my character be able to kill Gary


The story is really good one moment you are just a fresheman in college having a vacation the next you’re caught up in a cult. i was totally caugth off guard and also i find April adorable , she’s my fav character so far :joy:


Your whole reasoning got me more excited now. You can’t please everyone especially on the matter of how much choice can the player actually.
I think you’re going in the right direction with this game.
I love how you’ll be including more reactions of each choice. I know when I made my character nice to Sonya it was mainly do for the revenge later.


This makes me think of Empyrean; one of the main reasons people disliked it was because the MC couldn’t stay true to what they knew/were. Like they sometimes could pick a lock, and then depending on their stats, would forget how to do it the next time they tried it. In one of my playthroughs (of Monsters, not Empyrean), I had a MC reeeally high on lust and when the oportunity to bang Sonya arose, the thought of not doing it didn’t even crossed their mind. I find that amusing.

So true, I like how you put this.

I’m so guilty of doing just that. So this is an interesting point; I’ve seen the same discussion pop up from time to time and I want to know what @everyone thinks. When I started playing this game I though, “This character is like this and like that”, then as the story unfolded I realized my kind of rebellious MC had never spray painted a patrol car --me either, it’s just an example–, and that his “numerous” criminal acts were naive enough to make me smile. I guess this is the sort of thing that puts people off because it messes up with the back story they had been putting together for said character. Me? I don’t really care that much because I’m not much of a role player, I’m more into writing fanfiction and getting excited about meta. So if I write, “The best part of watching so many movies --apart from letting his mind wander for a couple of hours and forgetting about Dad’s somber parade around the house–, was having another topic to talk about when conversations died down. Have you seen The Sixth Sense? Josh would say, I’ve watched that sucker fifteen times,” I know the Josh in my head is an avid movie enthusiast, but then while playing, I noticed he has never watched the Sixth Sense. Dude, who hasn’t watched that movie? So I said, Ok then and I started thinking about the reasons he doesn’t watch movies, and that was fun and interesting for me (because, again, meta). Same thing happened when @VagabondAce suggested they though Josh was an aromantic bisexual: that’s something I hadn’t thought about and I really liked, so to me that’s who he is now. I guess I’m more here to ride along and whisper stuff in the MC’s ear, than to be that MC… which would make a good HG. Note to self: write about creatures saying shit in MC’s ears.


@Harley_Robin_Evans high wrath and/or envy I think.


My characters tend to be high Pride/Lust wit middle of the pack wrath 50ish and low envy, it may also do with the MC type playing a part too :wink:


How do I get that stuff tho


Depends on your choices, being a know it all and acting like you’re the best there is ups your pride, getting mad and having difficulty forgiving makes the wrath go up. Stuff like that. You can choose different choices everytime and take a look at the stats.



You already have for me. So go ahead, be the proud sensei I can’t find the emoticon for. :laughing:

The romantic part makes this difficult for me to answer, but…yes, I think. Well, I’m not sure if other people would define it as romantic, but it was the closest I’ve ever gotten to that.

Haha, I definitely felt like that. Like one part of me was screaming “Not ONLY does she not even like you anymore, not ONLY is she totally using you, but you could get in serious trouble!” but the other part was all like “But I love her!” :sweat_smile:

Oh, of course. Like just because I’ve read the code and know certain things doesn’t mean I allow any of my characters to use that knowledge. It’s much more fun that way. :smile:

Well, there’s the fact that the negative consequences of smoking seem to be a lot easier to come by and a lot more likely to happen. Like, the real consequences from drinking only seem to occur if you’re an alcoholic and drink all the time. But even one cigarette can make you smell like crap, and a few more will turn the air in your place into a toxic waste dump. Then the yellow teeth quickly follow, and the hugely great risk of lung cancer, etc.

Wait…was that a rhetorical question? :sweat_smile:

I think I understand what you’re saying. Like in those cases, the player is the character’s conscience or rational thoughts. The high Lust character might not be actually interested in a relationship with the one propositioning them, but oh, that damn libido! They couldn’t resist! And the psychopathic character may like the character they’re about to screw over and briefly consider in their mind not doing so, but alas, for their goals it is necessary.

The Gary Situation:

[spoiler] Mmm…well currently, it IS rather difficult to play an MC like Josh, who kind of seems like the affably evil type. Like the type who is nice and charming to get what they want but inside pretty flipping callous. And the Gary scene would be kind of a cool way to show that these sort of characters are not as nice as they seem.

But for other characters, them trying and failing to find it in themselves to kill Gary is totally realistic and perfect. Sigh. So I guess when you polish up the game I vote to make both the “try/fail” and “successful kill” option available to everybody.

Oh no, Shawn! Don’t you dare destroy the story I have planned with Liam by making certain characters only able to kill Gary! :smile: (He kind of comes off as a jerk at first and has a Kindness score in the toilet and a score in the 20’s on the PPT. But that’s really more because he has a problem with authority and a tendency to tell it like it is without the sugarcoat than anything. And it’s so much fun imagining the scene where I write Liam’s thoughts as he mentally tells the cult that they don’t own him and to go screw themselves, he’s not doing it.) [/spoiler]

For the most part, I’m fine with what you’re doing. :relaxed: Like having a high Wrath character scream at the people who have them tied to a chair even if they’re inner voice may be screaming “NO, you idiot!” :laughing: But the Gary decision just seems like such a huge one story and character wise to take partially out of the player’s hands.

And sorry about the toothache. That sounds rough.


Sorry everyone- beta testers especially for not keeping up with you the past few days. Yesterday I had a sliver of tooth or tartar push its way through my gum (yes, fuckin’ ow T_T ) but I’m feeling a lot better today than I was. I’ve done very little of anything the past few days, and I need to double-time it if I’m going to make a proper entry this year.

Additionally, I’ve been referred to have a couple teeth extracted by an oral surgeon, though I still need to make an appointment for this. Chances are I may have a week or so next month where I’m just out of everything. Figure I’d fill you in ahead of time on that.


Hey guys, here’s an interesting read about psychopaths and how their minds work: :grin:


So when Macready asks Mike if he plans on joining the military, if Mike says yes, then Macready likes that and says it’s a great option. But what if Mike would be deployed during the Pilgramage, assuming he joins the family?

Also, is there or will there be a way to get Sonya to not see you as a brother and get into a more steady relationship? Maybe even use religion or her feelings for you to be her exclusive lover?

Finally, @Shawn_Patrick_Reed, “God” (the way Macready says it) and “Jesus Christ” should be capitalized throughout the story as they are proper nouns. I saw many instances when they were’nt. Kind of nitpicky, but thats because your story is so great! :smiley:

Edit: Oh one last thing! How come only sometimes I get the option to guess everyone’s sin? What are the prereqs?


“In any case, point is, you’ve got me as a friend.”
“I’m not entirely sure if you count or not. You’re kinda more on track for being like a ${brother} to me. Still, thanks.”

Argh this makes more sense after playing the whole thing. I’m pretty sure there’s other speech and stuff that only really makes sense after they go all psycho- cult on you.

Also, can April really be classified as a sociopath? As in due to her age and such.

And a scene in which a ‘smart’ MC (or at least smarter/ more prepared MC) could threaten/ scare Sean would be a pretty fun scene just since it’d be cool to break the air of control and seriousness around him.

Oh and what sorta stuff should increase the ‘Monster’ stat?


Hi people.

I’m just stopping in to update you on my status. I’ve been dealing with a case of saliolathiasis for the past week or so- there was some time for about five days when my world was pain. Currently, I’m on antibiotics which are working, but I have a tender cyst in my mouth and very little energy (I haven’t eaten anything in about a week). The infection was likely brought on by another dental problem I’d had the prior week, and the kicker of it, I’m scheduled to have two teeth pulled on the 6th. (though I need to check and see if I need to reschedule that or not)

For those who asked questions recently, I’ll try to answer those eventually. Please have some more patience with me. Thank you.


Get better Shawn! Wish you all the best man. Hoping that soon we’ll be able to play some XCOM again. Except this time I might let you win (That’s a total lie.)


Feel better, Shawn! We’re all pulling for you! :blue_heart: And if you can, you should probably eat something…a week without food is a long time, just saying. :slight_smile:


Feel better soon @Shawn_Patrick_Reed! See if you can eat something easy like applesauce even to give your body some fuel to heal.


Thank you everyone for the well-wishes. I’m in a sort of weird spot, where I feel almost back to normal, but not quite. My days are subdivided into six hour segments right now because I need to take an antibiotic pill every six hours, and I’m still not really back to normal with food yet… but I am eating, and my fluid intake is more or less back to normal. I’m done with CScomp, and managed to turn in an entry, though I personally genuinely feel it shouldn’t win anything, I still feel good about the effort I put into it with the ~20 days I was able to work on it. A part of me wants to spruce it up for when the games open to the public, but another part wants to get back to working on spiffing up Monsters. First though I need to make my way through work-work for the month, and possibly a double-tooth extraction (unless that needs to be rescheduled, something I’ll need to check about).

Still, a list of some of the things I want to work on editing with Monsters:

Implementing a health system- take too much damage, and die. Heal slowly over time.

Improving the relationship system to better support having more than one individual you’re into at one time.

Adjusting April’s 2 truths and a lie answers to always tell just one lie, but randomize which question it’s on. (and somehow I need to make the lies still sound convincing- tough challenge here)

Also adjusting April’s relationship status to drop a single point any time you get an answer wrong (that she’s aware of) or do or say something of lower-than-average intelligence.

Adding in a purposefully incomplete prototype custom-appearance MC. It would let you select your appearance, but you wouldn’t get -any- custom dialogue for it yet, and wouldn’t get -any- character specific quirks/story/dialogue.

Adding in a bit more MC specific content here and there- pretty much just wherever I decide to add something.

Why does it feel like I’m forgetting something? Prep for chapter 3 perhaps? shrug

Now, I’m feeling well enough to answer some questions I’ve been asked recently.
@CowboyHooah The matter of capitalization for religious figures is …tricky. It’s my thought that I either capitalize all of them, or none of them. Because I think it diplomatically more dangerous (as in I think it more likely to trigger someone) to capitalize them all, I choose to capitalize none. My perspective on this is that being an atheist myself, I am being fair to all religions by not playing favorites, and I think people as a whole may be more able to overlook lowercase capitalization, whereas, from my perspective, capitalizing all of them would offend people of each religion that don’t acknowledge the others, not just offending those used to uppercase names. Realistically, it’s just a touchy subject- I’ll probably offend someone either way, and I’m just trying to minimize that.

On your other question- it might be possible. :wink: Far from easy, though.

And your other, other question. McCready isn’t really thinking that through. XD

And your last question- there’s a hidden stat which tracks how much information they initially introduce to you including whether they let you guess about which sins they are. I would need to look up what adds/removes points for this. I’ll try to remember when I get to that part during editing.

@fairlyfairfighter April is… not someone I can psychoanalyze without being too spoiler-ish, I’m afraid. Though I’m planning on some insights for keen minds in the next chapter.

Your other question… Monster is your sanity stat if you kill someone

And! @pimenita Hey, I know I told you I would reply to some posts you made early on this last month. Do you know what your post number for that was? The thought of scrolling that far back up is a bit daunting.

Thank you again, everyone, for being so supportive. :slight_smile: