@pimenita The songs are great (especially those of megadeth since I am fan of them) and to add some more, immortal and haunted of disturbed or coming for the throne of other wise
Hell yeah! fist bumps you
I’m sorry but to hit someone it takes rap
If you have some rap I’ll go into the fight
I think Mike is my favorite character so far. He’s hot, he’s troubled, he’s nice to my character, and he can cook. He’s pretty much my dream guy.
Yea!h Sabaton! I’m not huge fan heavy metal myself (although my brother did infected me with liking some of it), but Sabaton is very popular here, since they have a couple of songs praising Poland.
As a thing… although I haven’t seen a whole lot of bands play, I have seen Sabaton (and Disturbed, just to note). I mean, let’s see… I’ve seen Drowning Pool, Stereo Mud, Skeletonwitch, Lacuna Coil, Killswitch Engage, Chimaera, Amon Amarth, Sabaton, and Disturbed (twice). Of the bands… I probably like the songs of Amon Amarth and Killswitch Engage best… but as for stage presence, Sabaton is the best of all of these by far. Joakim Broden has so much energy and charisma while performing, 10/10 would see again. My favorite Sabaton songs are fairly popular Sabaton songs- Primo Victoria and 40 to 1.
I just wanted to say that thanks to this story(and a certain character), whenever someone complains about how difficult something is at work, I reply “Hard mode mortal! Hard mode!”.
If I may ask, how do you get that?
@Jesus the last time I rapped five people died. It is known as the pokerap massacre of '98. Tots real.
@Ponku I really like Sabaton wants me to learn about history. If anyone knows of a band that teaches 4th grade math let me know.
@Shawn_Patrick_Reed from my playlist I’ve seen Metallica (awesome show, then again it is Metallica),
Rammstein: god, so much fire. Till Lindemann ended up on a cross/wings made of metal, hanging several feet over the stage. Easily in my top three best shows.
Disturbed: same day I saw Rammstein. It was like being sixteen again. They played the classics, I was so happy.
Manson: I’ve seen him twice because my uncle is a die hard fan and because I have a soft spot for Manson.
I would love to see SOAD live someday, their music kicks so much ass, and they have one of the best lyrical content I’ve seen. And Tool, or like anything with Maynard in it. That. Dude’s. Lyrics.
The order is important! Genre wise.
I am also a very bad rapper but we can put one and pretend
Hard Mode Mortal. Hard. Mode.
@Shawn_Patrick_Reed Sorry if that playlist was annoying or made your ears bleed at any point. What can I say? That’s the kind of music Ashley listens to.
I’ve just finished June’s (until next update, at least).
Here Without You-to CJ.
Lost-dedicated to both my fictional and RL mother.
Echo-to everyone in the world.
Here-to Jack and Sonya when they seem to want to party and celebrate 5 minutes after Gary’s murder
Fireflies to Undone=About June’s Past
Wild Things to Disarm You=About June’s Present
Yes, June totally skipped her relatively recent life. June would say there is nothing to say about that, and it doesn’t deserve to be immortalized in song.
Now we really did it guys. We killed Chris fucking Cornell. I’ll see you all in hell.
Joking aside, this news is a bummer. He had the most beautiful voice I’ve ever heard and I consider Sondgarden the best band of its genre. I hope he finds the peace he’s been searching for.
This is a recruitment message-
I am in need of people who understand CS code who are not judging in the CScomp to scour my CScomp code to find out what is causing certain things to break. If interested, send a PM to me- I’ll give you a private dashingdon link in return. I need you presently for the sole purpose of brainstorming how to fix whatever is breaking my game. Thank you.
Don’t worry, there’s probably less than a 0.00001% chance of you dying from this recruitment, accounting for the slight possibility of becoming over-stressed.
April sent you a PM - read it at your own risk, mortal.
So i played/red the game. It is good and interesting. Took me a while, because i really, really get too much into my characters in books and games. Way too much i think. So getting into a character whose friends get murdered and is kidnapped and held in a cellar, is not a very pleasant experience, to say the least…
After reading i was visibly shaken. not because it was scary or anything like tat, but because i really was in that cellar while reading it, even if i roleplayed a bunch of parts of my character as different than i am, to differentiate myself from getting into chraracter too much. I know it sound silly, but that is just how i experience books.
So now i would like to write a bit of my view of the characters, based of what i saw in the game. I know that their stories and personaliteis so far are just the tip of the iceberg, and everything i think about them at that moment, with the information i encountered in the game, may be completely false with later knowing more, or even with what already is in the game but i didnt saw in my playthroughs. Neverthells i found it interesting to write what i see so far. If not for comparing it with others, then atleast for getting back to it when i learn mroe in the future.
I dont really kow how much of it, if anything, i should put in spoiler (afterall we are disscussing the game in this topic…), so right now will keep most of it visible, if you ahve suggestons otherwise, please tell.
So far i am assuming that there is no supernatural content in the game. Any mentions of it can be very easy attributed to them being psychopaths. Sean even outwardly say so that all the 7 sins thing is just a means to an end (although we cant be sure its not just manipulation from his part to better slowly convince us to join them) but he does mention superpowers like he believe in those abilities (although again, we dont know how many of what he is saying he is actually thinking). The whole superpowers idea seems unplausible to being attributed to supernatural (a former marine that is strong? A person who toughen her immune system with exposure to many people is resistant to diseases? A psychology student that can judge what people think about you? Yeah… real “supernatural” powers… ) And , assuming that i’m right about it not being in any way supernatural, i think that this is a brilliant idea. They are attributing this things to themselves to eleviate them ahead of “normal” people. To think that others are less than they are. Psychopathic murderers do treat their victims often as non-humans, to dull their possible leftovers of their empathy to them, which makes killing their victims easier. And i think that the idea of the cult thinking they have superpowers fits that kind of narration perfectly.
So, Mcready is as clear as day completely nuts. He dont even need the “superpowers” thing, he just attributed all this to his pseudo-religious stance. I’m curious does actually any of the others believe in the 7 sins thing as he does. So far for others it just seem as a convenent set of rules. More like a game and an easier way to “blame” part of their personality for some things (an easier escape, than thinking that they need to change a bad part of themselves) than actual holy crusade like Mcready.
Sean is a sociopath. I don’t know much of the past of the group, but it almost look like he was the one who created it, or atleast shaped it from completely nuts religious cult (?) He wants to kill people. He doesnt feel remorse, and as he said himself, the group and it’s beliefs is a very convenient way for him to be a murderer; they help him, they cover his tracks. From his perspective, the cult is like winning a lottery.
Jack? He doesnt give a shit. He doesnt see murdering others as too bad. He said so himself. That is just another part of his life now. Like a chore he needs to do once a year so then others can leave him alone for the rest of the time. He doesnt like it, but he also doesnt hate it enough to do sth about it, like even escaping (and whith his wandering persona i think he would be perfectly able to do that, even if a bit risky) He joined because of Sonya and stayed with them because of that initially. Although i dont think that now he really is there because of that. He is obviously not completely over her, but i dont think that even him really thinks that there is any chance of them being together, and with his feelings for her now i dont think they would be sufficient enough for him being recruited. But if he already is here? He might aswell stay.
Sonya is rather perturbed person. I think, from what we know about her so far, she is in the group because she needs a place where she belongs. She needs someone who accept her. And that need is so strong that she is willing to dull her empathy to other innocent people. Like April said, Sonya needs it. She doesnt need the “murderous cult” part, she needs the “family” part. And that family accepted her with all her bad sides. With all her past. Again, accepting a bad side of herself was easier than actually seeing it as bad and fighting against it. Should we accept who we are to be happy, or should we change for the better to be happy? She chose the former, because she thought that is the best way.
But, i dont know if it is inconsistency of her character or a sign of psychosis of some kind, but the thing that doesnt entirely fit with what we know so far, is her empathy. Normally the fact that she can be so empathic toward some people, like her family, like even her friends and hookups, would conflict with being so little empathic towards their victims and their families and the suffering she causes. In her it may be a sign of a personality disorder.
April is there for Sonya. That’s mostly all really. She is just a child and “brainwashing” her sense of morality at that age was easy enough for her to not treat murders as an overly bad thing. She is there for her sister and i dont see any other desire from her to be actually part of the group (other than semblence of extended family). But she also doesnt feel any need that they should stop. That is just normal life for her. The life she feel accustomed to, the life she see her place in it and feel needed by others. She is exceptionally inteligent for her age, so probably she hadnt felt a lot of connection and acceptance from her peers, but she does have it here with Sonya and the cult.
For the game mechanics i do have to say that i’m not entirely onboard with that. I mean the limited choices. I know that having more choices to reflect more possible personalites and train of thoughts would be hard, but too often i saw my character forced to respond in certain way (either by lack of possible responses or by choosing the response for me), that i found it sometimes strange or out of character. For example the talk with Sonya (and my character having crush on her) when in the cellar she talks about what she did and her regret that i havent asked out her sooner. She keeps saying how it would mean that we could “fuck for a month already”, while i keep saying about loving her. It does fit her quite interestingly that she fails to distinct “love” from “sex”, but then it was strange that my character couldn’t respond to her with explaining that.
Or at the end (although i think that is just for a placeholder as those are just literally last pages of the gamebook) the lack of input to my character’s feel and personality after killing Gary and getting into the car. And the fact that in one playthrough i was completely mean to Sonya in the cellar and then after initiation she still hugged me and smiled at me in the car was rather funny. I do think it’s a placeholder for now, but it would also reaaaly show her personality disorder
Also the part where our character talk about family in the car, the part where we state that we wanted to be psychologist, to better avoid perturbed people in life, adds to how terrible the situation is. We want to escape from that and we ended only deeper into the rabbit hole.
So @buggygirl11 , a long time ago you asked me about what i think about Gary debacle in the context of any of them being redeemable (if i understood correctly ). So, he was one of them. Who knows how many innocent people he killed himself and how many he helped to kill. He is certainly not innocent himself with that, even with him feeling regrets. Even when he wanted out, he still did nothing to stop them and just wanted to keep helping them with renting the cabins. Part of it can be justifable by that he wanted to protect his wife first and didnt want to risk involving the police. But overall still you can see as he is the one in the best position to actually expose the cult and stop them.So, he did felt regreet, he did wanted out, he did wanted to protect his real family. Is it redeemable? I thik that partly yes. He certainly doesnt deserve to be murdered by the cult, but it also doesnt mean he should have avoided any punishment or justice whatsoever. He did murdered innocent people and helped a murdering cult (as we know so far).
As what kind of punishment it should be? That is impossible to determine knowing so little. And not all punishment is always a jail time. My earlier comment about all of them spending time in jail was more an silly attempt at a joke (and defense mechanism from thoughts of liking a murdering psychopaths ).
In real life we know that simple generalisation is never ever a good thing. Would have clarified that sooner, but i thought that i would play the game sooner and write all that at once
But still, they are murdering innocent people (as far as we know) and causing huge amount of suffering to them and their families and friends, so any possibilities of “redemption” would be extermely hard and their actions cant go unpunished in any way. From the point of view we have so far.
As fo what our characters do with Gary? Well, that i see in that way: Gary is dead. When they presented him before MC, from our point of view, he is already dead. The cult wont leave him be, from everything we know so far, that is certain. It isn’t really a choice “him or us” it is a choice “only him or us both”.We are blackmailed with death threat to kill him on the spot. Even in court you would be cleared of charges for that afaik. We are not the ones who are killing him, the cult does it, using our hand as an unwilling tool. I hope that in future iterations of the game it would be better reflected that kind of view.
So overall congratulations for @Shawn_Patrick_Reed. Very well written story and interesting view on the charcters in it.
@Ponku Oh, thanks for answering! I didn’t think you were going to after all this time!
Interesting thoughts about character motivations. [spoiler] About Jack though, I assume you heard him tell part of his backstory (it’s kind of hard to miss)? At the end he makes a point to talk about how he considers the cult his family and how he thinks the real world is ten times worse than being here. (I suppose thoughts like that make sense considering he was homeless with no family to speak of before.)
I quote Jack: “And the thing is, with Switch, there was this crashing sense of no matter how much someone might seem like a friend, they can turn head on end one day and gank your ass. Except the new family? We were the opposite. If anyone got in trouble, we’d all be ready to step in. We’re family. Not friends. Family.” Jack’s arms fly out to the sides, and his hands spin in little circles. “This shit? Sure, it may seem like it sucks, but the real world out there, ten times fucking worse.”
This just seemed like it had a lot to do with his motivations for being here.
Aah! I can’t seem to highlight and quote text in the spoiler blurb!
Uncomfortable with the idea of liking murderous cult members? Whatever do you mean, dear Ponku? I mean, I was never particularly uncomfortable with the idea that even probably insane murderers can have likeable qualities, but that’s probably just because of my own probably rather unique life experience, and I understand that for a lot of people it would be pretty discomforting.
I get what you’re saying about considering Gary already dead regardless of your actions. My self-insert character June was just a tad overly naive and idealistic I guess, in that she thought originally that if she didn’t kill him she would save his life. (Yeah, yeah. She was wrong. She was very wrong. Currently going through an existential crisis about how wrong she was. )
And I did wonder whether an MC could be charged for murder or not if they killed Gary, given how it’s kind of (okay, totally) coerced. That’s good to know. When I do a playthrough as Chelsea, she’ll know that information. Everyone else who killed Gary, tragically less informed, assumes it would be a murder charge.
@buggygirl11 Oh yeah, i forgot that particular part about Jack. Although i do think that he wasn’t entirely sincere with his line that outsie world is “ten times worse”. In some cases it fits, but still it is killing innocent people. He does greatly appreciate that they are there to back him up, consider his previous experiences. But still i got a feel from him that he doesnt consider it the best life for him. That he couldnt do better.
I do see likeable qualities in them, afterall i needed to have thoughts of liking them in the first place to trigger that response , just in my round up i focused more on their problems, i think. They are still humans (mostly ) I have my own life experiences that influence a lot of my views and feelings here. It’s not that i’m uncomfortable with the idea they have good qualities. I think i’m more uncomfortable with the idea that i could like them despite the amount of suffering they cause to others. And uncomfortable part comes from the thing that i’m afraid i could…
Ok, that was a little to deep into the convoluted mess of my thoughts, for the game open forum
Well, i’m not a lawyer, but from my meager understanding thats how it would work with this situation, performing the act under duress, with all the circumstances. There surely still would be a trial, but in the end the ones accountable for murder would be the cult?
And here, they already get rid of all evidence, so the murder charge is not so obvious anymore.
Although really, it would require someone with extensive law background to actually answer all that, as the case is so specific, the general law would be less applicable and judge would take into consideration quite a lot of variables here. Maybe you would still face some punishment? but surely much less than for outright murder.
And i do think that from the more moral side, thats how it would work atleast. I could see how the MC could not feel responsible for Gary’s death.
A most entertaining read. ^ _ ^ Thank you very much.
One thing I plan to maintain through the story is plausible deniability. The uncertain question of if any part of the story is supernatural in any form, or perfectly explainable rationally. I personally think that it helps the story to keep that a question, rather than an answer. I plan to delve much further into the various characters’ personal reasonings and, well, depth of character, as the story continues. I’d like to add expansion to MC reactions… eventually. Coming back at some point and adding more variety in emotions; more and less- but there will still be some points where the game takes the character out of the MC’s hands a little. I’m not sure if it’s the case for everyone, but - pulling an example from my own life, I remember from my time in the military moments where I did not feel entirely under my own influence; angrier as a person… or a time when I became extremely callous. Perhaps people who are not in extreme circumstances don’t understand that sometimes the thing you want to do in your head isn’t the thing you end up doing. It’s the circumstance that leads to regret, and maybe it is something that only applies to some people and not others. A person who is not blind may be able to empathize with a blind character, but could not truly -know- what it is like except by imagination. So it goes, perhaps, with feeling out of control of oneself. It’s true that I want things like, for instance, the possibility of more regret for what happened to Gary, or more snapback with Sonya on MC’s emotions- but sometimes the player leads the character into things that aren’t so easy to budge. Something like, after falling for a character, falling back out of that state, may not be as easy for an MC as it might be for the player of the MC- and that’s the point where I’ll just need to ask people to trust me, until the game gets finished and a full revision polish run over it. Same goes for other things, as well- revenge, forgiveness, depression, and so on. I want to add more choice, and more variety of reaction- eventually, but there’s also going to be a lot more of times where the choice is no longer in the player’s hands- they’ve already made their bed with deciding the character’s personality through past choices. A player that really doesn’t want a character to do something, but the player understanding why they do and seeing how it’s they caused it, is the sort of thing I would like, when it comes to Monsters.
An interesting thought: How would you describe a painting? Would it take a proverbial thousand words to do so? With the characters, I can bring up a little here or there about one or another, but the most powerful description for the characters is the story itself. Sometimes, the fastest way to describe them is by writing more story. I need to get the stuff that’s in my head, to you, in a sensible way. To me, nothing in the story doesn’t make any sense- but sometimes what’s in my head is future information. Which I need to make sure I cover, at some point, or it will never get conveyed properly.
Sometimes, thoughts about characters are correct. Sometimes they don’t have enough information, but thoughts are sensible with what’s given. Sometimes people think things that are off base. Whatever the case, the story is the best medium I have to communicate the characters to you, and some amount of information is bound to be lost on both sides, - both me in conveying it properly, and a reader picking up on all the context and sub-context. Heck, sometimes someone will just have life experiences that make a certain character sharply make much more sense than to someone else who ‘kinda gets it’. Not like the ‘kinda gets it’ is at fault or to blame- heck, they’re probably the lucky one in some ways. But then again, I can only write things that I can concieve of myself, so some things will probably be different from how you would write things if you decided to write a fanfiction or such. XD glances at certain people Thing is, thinking about things your own way, deciding things your own way- that’s totally valid. I might spoil your notions sometime later with further information, but I like when people think about things in the story no matter how close or far off they are.
To @Ponku and @pimenita and @buggygirl11 - I appreciate your thoughts on the NPCs and your perspectives about the MCs. I know how the FBI must feel - ‘I can neither confirm nor deny the validity of that statement’. For your thoughts on the various characters, this must be the case. Though I hope to, at least a little, explain more to you through the story itself, when I get moving forward with it again. I don’t know how to explain this very well, but one of the most important things that has influenced my life are things (in a general sense) that teach life lessons, and are experiences about life. There are certain things that pass this along, from one person to another, not by telling, but by showing. Anime, music, good books, sometimes games and movies. It’s a thing that, at least for me, I’ve come to be able to know when I see it. And it’s something not all art and entertainment can do (or, at least, do well). If I can, I intend to make Monsters a story that connects with people in individual ways. Maybe not all of it; maybe the character connection isn’t perfect, and such- but I want it to be the kind of story that makes you take your own experiences in life and apply them, learning a little about yourself in the process. I feel like a proud sensei if I, through my writing, coax someone to look at something from an angle they had not considered before. Even if it’s not a fundamental change, or anything resembling a change- the consideration of something challenging, at length, is rewarding to me as a writer and… as a person, trying to pass on a little something here or there about life.
I do believe that people can fundamentally change over time. I also think that change is rarely dramatically sudden, and only stands up through the challenge of time. And that it is often hard to see it happening, and only truly visible in hindsight.
I’d like to pose a thought. Is love a choice? To be more specific, let’s define it as the romantic love of being attracted to someone- and pose it in the context of a CS game. Or, maybe I’m phrasing it wrong… have any of you ever been in love when you haven’t wanted to be in love? raises hand That’s happened to me more than once, so if my life were a CS game, and the voice inside my head was a player repeatedly selecting a ‘no, this person is bad for you, stop being so miserable!’ choice… the me of the time would have failed at having the stats to succeed at that choice. In a sense, I would have been out of my own hands and limited in what I could do. If someone else jumped into my head… assuming there was any autonomy left to me after that, with just a limited experience of things through my perspective, but without all of my thoughts and memories, someone else might easily be able to get me out of heartbreak… but I, myself, couldn’t. That’s where I question the difference between character, and player. Does it make sense that, from my own experience in life, I think it ironic to show that sometimes the character can play the player- simply by being how they are? I want to explore the concept of meta knowledge, though doubtful I’ll have any good opportunities any time soon. Essentially, what I mean by that, is that there’s a difference between what a character knows and what a player knows. Just like, and I’m not sure this is something everyone truly understands, there can be a difference between what someone wants to do, and what they do. What reason is there for there to be a difference, rather than exactly what’s decided upon? It’s a bit like, if someone popped into my head, and again assuming I have any autonomy left- if someone tried to make me smoke anything, I’d tell the voice in my head to fuck off, and squarely say no. If it were a game… would the choice to try convincing me to do so be something that should be written in? What are your thoughts? There was a time in my life, where I chose not to drink at all. I rarely do, but even so, at one point, I decided to give in and try it. Why would I do that, I ask myself, yet still never want to smoke? Why give in on one thing, and not another? Someone else might give in… but if someone else were playing my life as a game full of choices and did so when it would not be ‘me’ to do so, would they be me, or would I be them?
So it goes with me wondering about Monsters. Because not everyone will be able to think about it from the perspective of having my thoughts on the matter- how much should the player control the character… and how much should the character control the character? Let’s explore some thought-experiment examples: Let’s say a player has made choices that give a character a very high lust stat - 75+ or what-have-you. Now let’s say a character (it doesn’t matter which) propositions the character, but the player isn’t interested. Oh, but the character is. Clearly the player has made the character someone who would be interested, even if the player would not be. - Another example: A player creates a psychopath character, who sees an advantage to be gained by causing great misfortune to a character the player likes. The player doesn’t want the character to do the thing, but the character would, because the player sculpted them to be that way and isn’t going to have a stroke of conscience just because the player does.
The situation with Gary is an example of this. Rather, that some MC’s -can’t- kill Gary, because of how they’ve been played… just as some people wouldn’t be able to, even if they knew it was the only way they could survive. Yet on the flipside, all of those who could always have the option not to. Some might die for deciding not to, some might not. Suppose either of the following scenarios were true: In the first, let’s say I make every MC able to make a choice that could kill Gary. In the second, let’s say I make some characters ONLY able to kill Gary, and not able to choose not to. In either case… would the story be better?
Some things should expand, in the future, but I think the game is stronger with ‘chosen character autonomy’. Which is philosophical, as much as a matter of practicality in scripting. I mean, I could do more variety than I have even now… it would just be even slower progress. It’s got to be fair to say, though, that I don’t know what I actually will expand on until I actually do. Eg, NPC reactions, MC individuality, additional choice options, ect. For now, what is, is, until it is more. XD And eventually… it will be more.
Anyway- doing a 90* turn… in other news: I’ve had a toothache which has been driving me to distraction the past few days. A constant dull to medium ache. I very much ought to consult a dentist soon, rather than later, but I also very much would like to put it off until after turning in my CScomp, which I’m still in the process of working on (and will be right up to the deadline). Certain… issues… regarding it, have been solved, but there is much work left to be done.