The thing about only having a LI flirt if the MC has already shown interest is that it often limits player choice.
Personally, I rather dislike playing a character that blatantly flirts with people they just met. Both because extroverted people are a mystery to me and because I want my romances to develop organically.
Often, I feel like I HAVE to play this kind of character to pursue a romance in Choice games. It makes no sense to me on a personal level to find someone attractive or to want to get with them when I barely even know them.
That’s why I tend to prefer LIs that already have a history with the MC to LIs you meet for the first time during the story.
Fact is, I’d much rather play my MC’s oblivious or emotionally constipated or antagonistic than to have them go ‘yoooo ur hot’ right after meeting the LI in question.
And this is why Wayhaven is so popular! Slow-burn romance, tension, MC can be played assertive or shy or as utterly non-flirty without being locked out of a romance.
Then think of any other reply, something that you might send irl. I’m just providing the simplest example of something that is non invasive and innocent.
My response would be Stop romancing that character because I don’t want to be receiving unwanted messages. I only want npc talking. about stuff when I choose too.
The NPC wouldn’t be making you do anything the character would simply be reciprocating the same feelings that you have demonstrated towards them. Also how would a character reacting to your flirtations by flirting back with you, limit your choices ? Yes in a lot of stories that can lead you to being automatically wed to the NPC. But, since this is for choice games, it shouldn’t be the case and if it was, that would hopefully be rectified by great beta testers like you. Disclaimer not trying to be rude or diminish your feelings/ viewpoint I simply want to understand why you feel that way.
I’m sorry but I genuinely don’t understand your driving analogy and I want to understand both you and @poison_mara’s view point. Can you please explain this in another way and how it takes away your power since from my viewpoint the MC/player is the one who is still the one who initiates the romance but the NPC of your choice reciprocates the same feelings as you.
I know it sound like it’s about control. But it’s more about being confortable in the romance.
In a game you get many choices, sometimes you feel like flirting. Or picking up another choice and skip the Flirt option. If said romance Initiate the Flirting, the game is putting me in a zone where my back is against a wall .
It’s a simple matter of ‘‘Do you like to wooe your chosen one?’’ Vs ‘‘Do you like to being Wooed by your chosen one?’’ .
Some peoples like to be courted. Some like to do the courting.
Those who like to be courted, want the romantic stuff, flowers, outing and be surprised.
Those who like to do the courting, take the burden of making those choices : What kind of flowers, what kind of restaurant and hate surprise (Well I do anyway lol) .
Neither side is wrong, they both are a matter of taste .
It’s a matter of taste. Because doing the courting or being courted is a bit archaic design to begin with. Yes, it can be romantic and you can see it in movies.
But a real relationship, is both participant do stuff equally to each others.
Homewhever, in a game. Often they focus on the player, and what it can do and script the rest as action and reaction.
And because, in a game you don’t know who you will end up liking (If any). Thats why the ‘‘Control’’ is handed over to the player. And it become tricky to make the romance to be the one to initiate anything. Since there are zillions of peoples with different taste that will play the game.
Yeah, I feel something like that. When Npc does something like send me flowers or stuff like that is something I can not control and I feel like game is not my game anymore, I also hatein real life being courted and if you want that i break with you. best way is starting to send me stuff or trying to courting me into doing millions of things.
It makes me feel uncomfortable, anxious and not sure if the other wants to be with me or not. I need going my own rhythm and do stuff I wanted to do.
It’s about confort lol but fine. Let’s go with control if it make you happy .
Even in real life relationship, you can find peoples who don’t like the touching, or the gift giving. Or one give more then the others, for reasons like different income and skills.
Like say one gf can make shirt, the spouse can’t. They can exchange things sure. But there are peoples who aren’t big on such a thing.
I don’t think you are alone in that desire. But writing romance is hard .
It isn’t just ‘‘Insert here lot of Smooche’’ . It’s more then that. It’s similar to writing a thrilling scene, or a scary part or a sad moment.
Not saying it’s impossible, just…hard to do.
Peoples often have the idea for a great story, but here come Romance. And they get stomped lol .
This would be seriously nice to have. What people fail to realize is that, by forcing the MC to always be the one to initiate a romance, the player is locked into playing a specific type of MC–one who is always the aggressor in romance. And, while that may please the types who get squicky over a NPC showing any type of ‘interest’, it forces every one else to go along and have no choice in what is supposed to be a choice game.
And, while we’re on that, I would love to see an author separate sexual assertiveness from emotional assertiveness. A lot of characters I write are perfectly comfortable with sex–and direct about it when they’re attracted and have the slightest inkling of interest from the one to whom they’re attracted–but as soon as emotions come into play, they turn into bumbling, flustered messes who either freak out and run away (and need to be chased!) or who ignore it and convince themselves their weird feelings came from indigestion.
What irks me is that there’s no distinction between these two things in games–if your MC flusters over genuine emotion, they are forced to turn into a blushing virgin when physical contact is mentioned. It ruins the whole experience.
^^This. I don’t see why it’s a problem as long as there’s an option for the MC to tell the person to piss off, that they don’t like being pursued and will do the pursuing if they decide to do so. Of course, where some NPCs are concerned, that should lock them out of that romance. Because, like the MC, some NPCs would like to do the pursuing and won’t bow down to the MC’s desire to basically control them. Same goes for the emotionally skittish types I mentioned above–some characters wouldn’t have patience for that and would just think the MC is out to get laid (in which case, perhaps there should be an option to clarify).
Would you, please? I’d like to see them, and possibly play them!
That’s all good, really. What would really REALLY make me happy is a good story with a good quasi-dynamic romance. It’s a difficult task, yes. I am a creator myself and I never take the lazy route. I create difficult niche stuff that maybe a hundred people would potentially appreciate. It’s still worth doing.
On the question of pursing and being pursued. How does people feel like something as for example the shadow society and I think wayhaven too where there is the option of being flustered/shy about ordinary stuff? That then promts a romance scene/segment where the ro does the pursing (as much as they are capable of it per the ro’s personality).
I second that. Same as ‘‘Romance’’ and ‘‘Sex’’ . God, they are NOT the same thing .
Stop writing tha same stuff as meh…
for me that’s fine.
For exemple in Wayhaven, I know what kind of character is M. So I don’t go near them, at all.
And that’s when good writing show it’s self vs Bad writing where similar scene the ‘groping’ come from the woodwork and you don’t even have a hint or anything. It’s just there in your face…and you are going ‘‘Fuck off!’’ .
I disagree. Some players prefer to have the NPC initiate things, specifically because we play different characters (taking the whole RPG thing in the literal sense) rather than just self-inserts. And different strokes for different folks.
There are ways to handle it that would accommodate players who insist on being the ones to make the first move, too. First, as the OP said, have the initiation based on certain points that accumulate over interactions. Second, give the MC fair warning what’s about to happen. A simple “NPC1 starts to move toward me, arms outstretched, clearly intending to hug me” followed by the choices of shoving them away, telling them to back the hell off, and a couple of options for acceptance/encouragement or even beating them to the punch. That takes care of it.
Agreed. But I think the OP was saying it would be based on flirting. Now, granted, some people flirt with friends (and everyone else) because that’s who they are. But wouldn’t it be understandable if that got quite a few reactions from the targets, wherein they believe the MC meant something by it that they didn’t? Most times, it could be something to laugh at (“Yeah, I get it, you’d flirt with a table if you were alone with it!”) but for the softer NPCs, it could cause a rift that has to be mended (if possible). My point is that it would give depth not only to the MC, but to the NPCs and relationships with them. And I live for that shit–I loved ME2 more than any other of the franchise because the relationships with your crew shaped everything and determined your success.
I like this idea. A firm rejection locks you out of the romance permanently. A soft rejection lets the NPC know you need time to process it. Of course, you don’t want the NPCs to become martyrs over you, so it could easily be three strikes and you’re out.
^^A thousand times this.
I hate it, mainly because of what I mentioned before. Sexual shyness and emotional shyness are completely intermingled to the point where there is no distinction (in TWC, at least–Shadow Society seems a bit better about it, somehow). If it would separate the two, it would be fine.
Actually, now that I think about it, I know why it bugs me in TWC and not TSS–in TSS, the MC behaves like an adult. Even when there are shy or reluctant options, they are phrased in a way that seems less like a tween with their first crush and more like an adult resisting an attraction they don’t want to have. In TWC, any resistance/shyness is all tween angst, and it grates. MCs that are adults should act like adults.
I only ever looked in the scripts of 2 games. A Pirate’s Pleasure and Steampunk: Choice By Gaslight but I am sure this can be done.
Certain choices amend a variable that will decide the outcome of the entire game, a chapter or even a scene.
In Study in Steampunk, certain responses by your MC will add to suspicion and when you are finally interrogated, the outcome changes depending on the suspicion level.
In Pirate’s Pleasure this was done with the battle of Nassau where the variable is the advantage that you have over the forces defending the port. In the end your lover or sailing master can decide whether you’re strong enough to even begin to fight.
So I imagine certain choices could be considered progressive for the romance and if the progress is high enough (the variable is equal or more than x) it would trigger a special scene when the NPC would show some initiative, like leaving you a message or visiting you for a chat (or something else if you agree to that). This is done by the simple IF-ELSEIF-ELSE command. I would imagine this would be quite easy to do, coding-wise.
I liked it in Wayhaven. Never played Shadow Society, but I will.
Being put on the receiving end was a nice change. I believe, in Zombie Exodus, Heather can initiate little things too. I can’t remember that game very well. Need to play it again I guess.
