In the absence of specifics or concrete examples of what you are talking about, I’m not sure we can avoid a circular discussion at this point. I’m not aware of a new WiP where “people won’t even give it a chance.”
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The concept of “Interactive” is the core issue here –
The concept can be applied and implemented many different ways to facilitate a successful game.
A structured and non-agency focused protagonist is very viable, if the interaction is built in elsewhere into the game.
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No I won’t mention any one, that’s not what I am trying to say. How can you say that people do not give games a shot? They (we) do, and then it’s all wrong.
Could you please name an example?
Like, there are games out there that don’t give a lot of possibilities to ‘adjust’ the MC to one’s liking, but I can’t thing of any recent ones, left alone any where people would have called vividly for a ‘blank slate’.
I appreciate the engagement but Interactive is literally that… Interacting with the STORY. I think i’m going crazy
excuse me?
I think it is time for everyone to take a step back and take a breath.
I enabled slow-mode for the rest of the day so that we all can do this.
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Familiarity sells. People are much more likely to buy what they know they like instead of something new which they have no proof that they will like. It is the same with time. People are much more to invest time into what they know they like instead something strange an unfamiliar to them.
Which means that if you try to sell a niche - anything (and text-based if is already niche) you will turn your audience off by premise alone.
And that is fine. As long as you are writing in somewhat english and not baby-murderer simulator Hosted Games is willing to sell it, which means that you will have a platform, just not an audience. And sadly nobody is owned an audience, which can suck, I know, because I like a lot of weird stuff, which just doesn´t sell, but that is just how it is. (That being said, choicescript would not be the right engine for the weird stuff I like.)
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It feels like your message is getting a bit lost in all the “they are to blame” stuff, so let’s reframe it in a more positive way 
In a perfect world, what would you like to see?
- More WIPs/published games?
- Different genres/styles?
- Greater popularity for certain game types/designs?
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Not saying people have to like or dislike it! I think that was pretty clear, just wishing for more understanding instead of telling someone they are doing it wrong. And “they” in this instance is me and everyone else who read these.
Anyway, we’re running in circles. I said what I wanted to say.
Oh and I would vote different genres/styles all day. 
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Reading through the thread, I think one thing is clear, and that’s that we all have different ideas of what is being talked about.
I would suggest that before we continue this conversation, we come to an understanding on the following:
- What do we mean by “blank slate”?
- What definitions of “interactive fiction” are we all writing under?
- What are the intentions of this thread?
I’ll start.
- To me, a “blank slate” refers to a character with no explicit background, no defined features, and no specified morals. With that definition, I would argue most MCs are not blank slates–but there are people on this forum who want defined MCs to take on more characteristics of them.
- I consider “interactive fiction” to be a piece of storytelling that the player can control the events of. RPGs, COG games, open world games, those old Nancy Drew computer games, etc. are stories I consider interactive fiction. Anything that requires player involvement to result in a specific outcome.
- I believe the intentions of this thread should be to discuss the medium and how we can expand it within the realm of Choicescript, taking advantage of the opportunities that gives us. Not everyone can be 1,000,000+ words of scripting and options, but creating and encouraging stories that give us the opportunity to control the narrative (regardless of protagonist) is something we can all learn to do here.
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(A little bit off-topic, I think.)
I usually stay off of these topics and for a very good reason.
Maybe OP @mireo exaggerated a little bit. I have not seen people droning off en mass because they can’t choose x, y and z. But let’s not pretend these kinds of comments doesn’t exist or that they are rare. Just start any opinion thread and will see it pop up every now and then: “I cannot play this game because I can’t play as x, y and z.” And sometimes it’s said in an accusatory or passive-aggressive way.
Now hear me out, I’m not saying it viciously. Readers have their reason and are entitled to their opinion, time and money. I’m not passing judgement, just laying facts on the table. For a writer, it can be disheartening to put your work out there and be turned down by what you see as a minor thing.
There’s no solution because there’s no real problem here. Writers are not entitled to an audience as @DreamingGames said. Readers are not entitled to have every request attended. If a title doesn’t do it for you, shake it off and move on.
Sure, but if it’s the only gallery in miles and miles you might as well try to sell it there first. Interactive fiction is already a niche market. I think the parse games have a wider audience if only for being around longer (as a digital medium). Multiple-choice text-only interactive fiction if even nichier. CoG is already established in this market. They can reach the consumer base much better than a budding author with a tumblr account can on their own.
For readers:
From a guy who’s been through some real shit in life, I have no need to play exactly as myself to enjoy any game. If the main character is a white straight dude or a black lesbian woman, neither will turn me off. Personally, in my opinion (just to be sure), I don’t think this mindset is helpful. Also, if an author doesn’t feel comfortable including a certain option for whatever reason (religious, political, personal, etc) I don’t think they should feel bad about it. Sometimes it’s not just about switching pronouns. You definitely don’t have to agree with it, but if the author is not belligerent, bigot or offensive, just shake it off.
For writers:
There’s an underlying assumption you’re creating a commercial product and the community will give feedback about what they want and expect from the game. This is good! It’s hard, but you need to grow thick skin. Don’t feel disheartened, but be willing to consider the requests. Also, from my professional experience (I’m not a writer btw), the best thing to do is to know your client and manage expectations. You already know what the CoG audience expects, customization options, especially on gender identity and sexual orientation, some alternatives to solve problems in-game, romance options (fantasy is also a popular genre), and preferable control over personality traits. That’s mostly it. You can still have a linear game and be successful, you don’t need to fundamentally change your game to be successful. Take a look at @Brian_Rushton’s great post, some great games mentioned are very linear. If you’re planning on doing something different just state it up-front in your WIP post. You’ll still get some requests for things you said you don’t plan on doing, and might even receive snarky remarks for it, deal with it graciously, and move on.
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I don’t think fixed or open protags have anything to do with the level of an if interactive scale nor does it determine if the quality of the story is good or not because of one or the other… its all about how the author utilizes the two concepts . i also disagree with the whole black and whitening of fixed and open protags. they tend to sometimes overlap. a story can have an open protag that is already fixed in some ways.
example. player chooses race gender and all that comes with a standard character creator. player then gets to choose things like origins that makes them fixed and established in the setting. the narrative then sometimes remembers set origin and might even do something with it.
games like choice of magic and the infinity series does this very well.
also open protagonists can have depth to them if you try to write them that way. instead of writing them as if they are in a simulator game .
the problem with open protags in most cog|hg is that they drop you in the story rather than fist making a character a part of the world through player choices before they then process to thrust you into the story.
by and large people don’t want the author to rewrite a character for their own joy. it just that people tend to sometimes suggest to the author that they should allow multiple player styles since the the author has established that the player is an open protag like @MeltingPenguins said
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I would like to emphasize that there are two groups of people who like games with blank-page MC:
a) Self-Insert lovers and
b) People who’d like to create their own OCs
Some people treat IF games as a creative exercise, and those people would prefer a lot of flavour option and customization not only in hairstyles or genders but also would like to customize the personality of MC. Some people want choices that matter, to feel like their character is real and present in the story and has agency - and that should be ok.
Not everything is for everyone.
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@mireo I hope you’re listening too. Otherwise, you weren’t asking a question in your initial post. A lot of smart and experienced people have given of their time to try to engage with you. To disengage because you’ve had your say might keep you from getting what you said you wanted.
The surest way to get exactly what you want is to write it. You seem passionate enough about your views and the medium that I would encourage you to try. You might even discover some of the answers to your own questions regarding design decision. To be meta, writing a choice-based game sometimes feels like playing one with a lot more work and steps added. You have to decide about the decisions and such.
In the broadest sense, there are few people into IF (relative to some other things) and fewer still into those coded in ChoiceScript. I see it all the time that people create lines of division in already small groups, not realizing they have far more in common with who they are speaking to than the differences they would dwell on. Or: perhaps don’t fight with the few friends there are to be had in this small world.
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If I’m understanding correctly, I think what @mireo was first bringing to attention was that people want blank slate PCs.
Personally, I’d have to disagree, and in looking at some popular titles, I think more fixed stories can be well-received, also.
The concept of a blank slate PC is fraught, anyway–I think @RedRoses is right in saying that the vast majority of PCs are not true blank slates. I’d go further and say that I’ve literally never encountered a PC here that I would call a true blank slate. Every WIP, Choice, or Hosted game I’ve ever played (and I’ve played lots haha) have some PC backstory–maybe a family member NPC, an initial life setup (in school, has a job), etc. I honestly don’t think it’s possible, within our corner of IF, to create an entirely blank slate PC. At least, I personally can’t imagine how it could be done.
I also agree that authors are not owed an audience. In my experience reading the WIP forums, though, people seem incredibly open and supportive; I’m full of anxiety working on my first WIP, but worries about a mean or cruel reception has never been part of that. I think us authors are very lucky to have this community as our sounding board!
And even if feedback is occasionally disappointing and a user says they aren’t interested, ultimately it’s up to the author what they do with that. TBH, the story I’m writing currently is as much a story for me as it is for anyone else.
(And for any authors who are experiencing setbacks or feeling discouraged, there are monthly support threads for writers. The April one is already busy, and the environment there is super positive and helpful!)
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Was that all about The Aeon WIP? As far as I remember, its author was fine with the feedback and none of the readers demanded a “blank slate”.
Readers may give a feedback about the story feeling railroaded or lack of meaningful and impactful choices. But none of it actually stops authors from writing their story in the desired way. There are games published both in COG and HG which don’t have a choice every two pages, detailed customisation of MC’s hair length, many stats, romances, etc. And they still have their audience who enjoys exactly this pace of storytelling.
However, if we are talking about something where the reader only turns pages without ever making a choice, then it’s not an interactive fiction as it simply doesn’t have interactive element in it. It still may be a nice story, though. But I don’t think that any of WIPs had such extreme limitations.
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“@mireo I hope you’re listening too. Otherwise, you weren’t asking a question in your initial post. A lot of smart and experienced people have given of their time to try to engage with you. To disengage because you’ve had your say might keep you from getting what you said you wanted.”
I did ask a question and I engaged with people, got loads of feedback. I am happy with it.
“A lot of smart and experienced people have given of their time to try to engage with you. To disengage because you’ve had your say might keep you from getting what you said you wanted.”
I know? I am enjoying the conversation. Me disengaging has nothing to do with this and all to do with anxiety. I still enjoy the conversation wherever it is. But you go girl I guess.
“The surest way to get exactly what you want is to write it. You seem passionate enough about your views and the medium that I would encourage you to try. You might even discover some of the answers to your own questions regarding design decision. To be meta, writing a choice-based game sometimes feels like playing one with a lot more work and steps added. You have to decide about the decisions and such.”
I am not trying to change anyones mind. I tried to have a conversation.
" You might even discover some of the answers to your own questions regarding design decision."
Sure, thanks.
Sure, I could write an entire novel if I wanted. I just want to read a story where the author gets to do their thing without everyone going “i want this, I want that”. i realise I might be in the minority but shrug
Not apologising for this, loads of people talked to me and I am loving it.
You want a story about the author who never received criticism or do you want an author to write a story and then for nobody to have an opinion about how to improve it?
Because if it’s the latter then that would have to mean nobody would read it - you might think this forum is harsh (I’m not entirely sure why) but the online reviews won’t be bound by any code of conduct so the only way to ensure the author will never get criticism is for the author to never publish their work.
That’s just how it is in creative world - you put yourself out there.
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If you go to a forum in a written community requesting feedback and opinions. You should expect input and views from the people that are kind enough to reply to you
I think some authors only want to been told how wonderful they are and how everything they do is perfect and how much everyone loves them and How if they publish, all will be love and hugs.
Then markets reviews come, and the reality hit those. People like a sledgehammer. To point cause severe anxiety and depressions.
Because those authors have isolated themselves in a resonance chamber that doesn’t allow them to check out the reality of the market or improve at all.
Choose not to receive honest feedback is a valid option, a terrible one. But valid. But don’t go asking people for feedback if you don’t want to hear about it.
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