Indifference, Snark, and Rudeness

There was a NPC character I once had in mind for a possible game who was going to be your quintessential upper class Victorian Male Adventurer… he was brave and resourceful and chivalrous to women and keen to help with injustice, but per the time he was also going to be a tad sexist (not quite able to believe a woman could match him) and inclined to think the British Empire was better than anybody else. I was planning on him evolving as a character of course - perhaps ending up in a romance with a woman more than his equal if not better if he didn’t romance the player - but I suppose he’s the sort of character which might suit this conversation.

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Sassy, snarky, mean, sneaky, cold, manipulative, sarcastic, etc choices are fuuun. At least as far as my WIPs go, all the most popular characters are really fiery, opinionated, and “love them or hate them” type characters.

So, naturally, there will be options to argue back with them or react to them in equally extravagant ways. I think it also depends on what sort of story you’re writing. When the game is called Nascent Narcissistic Necromancer, you can bet your ass that 70% of the choices will be “bad-ish guy” kinds instead of the usual 20% in most games.

Obviously it’s important to balance these choices out with more delicate and noble ones, too. But
games without some of the more dark or grey options get very boring, very fast, in my opinion.

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Thank you, you understood my point perfectly! :slight_smile: and I didn’t mean to accuse Laguz of proposing censorship, either. I have no other word to refer to “certain depictions not being allowed in a book/game”, though… If there is one in English, I’d love to learn it!

I admire your optimism and wish I shared it :thinking:

Now, to get back to the topic at hand, I’d definitely enjoy more options to be snarky or sarcastic in most games, like in Wayhaven Chronicles where one of the first lines my MC gets to say is “That’s not exactly something to be proud of, Sir!” when a man introduces himself as the landlord of a building… I’d love more of that in other games :smiley:

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Not everyone feels guilt, and even for those that feel they might be roleplaying a character that doesn’t.

Even then, when I replied I forgot this topic was more about the MC than the NPCs; like you I don’t agree when people imply these things shouldn’t be part of settings or NPC behavior (either historical or created if the author wishes their settings to be that way). Not all games are for “escapism” so by having a disclaimer that a game has this sort of content, those that don’t want to experience it can simply move on.

I also don’t agree with this. Sometimes depending on the story or situation it may not be possible to challenge or defeat those that do this (or it may not even be the theme of the story) so while having it is good (and probably what’s gonna happen in most stories anyway), I don’t see why it’s a requirement (unless it’s some sort of guideline, been a while since I read them).

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I am writing a story about Cannibalism dystopia and total destruction of nature to point only humans remain so they are all cannibals fighting each other for food.

I use dark humour to erase the tone but still, you start breakfast eating food made of people.

But It has a heavy plot reason for that. Show what the destruction and technology without control could cause. And a metaphor of how we treat people dying in most part of world where they made our cheap wares we. consume and waste.
That and a key plot story is how people can make meaningful relationships in a society like that.

In my opinion, if something is key for the story and is not trivializing the issue should be perfectly fine if have trigger warnings

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I don’t really agree with most people on this but here’s my two cents, showsand other books and games have dark mature themes such as villain protagonists and racism. When done right it can make a fascinating tale. And I disagree that characters have to oppose you if you are the villain. Sense remember most people never see themselves as the villain they believe they are a hero and in the right. Plus it can be borning always having to read and play a white knight hero type character, people should be able to commit evil in games.

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Whether there’s a reason behind it or not, if I’m feeling more than a little crabby it is nice to be able to inject that bad attitude into a character, and blow off some steam. Interacting with characters meant to respond in various fashions to your choices is a nice way to smooth out any emotional wrinkles, especially if you’re allowed to try to apologize. The npc’s never have to just sit there, and take it, but feedback is what the player is seeking when they boot up a choose your own adventure game to cut loose for a little while; the theme and genre become secondary when this is the goal of the player.

So snark, and rudeness as options are a relief for some players. I’m in the “would rather pick nice options first” camp, but bad mood days can happen to anyone.

On the opposite end of the scale, sometimes just picking the ‘nice/respectful’ options can improve a bad mood just by diving into the story’s narrative. “Escapism”, or just putting it off until you can look at it with a more neutral/cooled off perspective that negative venting alone wouldn’t accomplish sometimes.

It’s not just a matter of “coping” when a person wants to get away from negativity–it is a matter of overcoming it, too.

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I’d prefer to have more options or response and thoughts as a character rather than just being one thing; in this case, being nice. I always pick the indifferent and sarcastic options because that is just who I am. In general I don’t really care much about things that happen to most people outside my small circle, so it pains me to play as busybody MC who feels the need to be liked by anyone.

Rudeness might be a problem but if that in line with the character’s behavior or the situation calls for it; I don’t see the problem. My favorite games or WIPs are the one in which I can play as sarcastic and indifferent character.

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I’m sorry but don’t you have the option to play pirates and rogues, bounty hunters, dark mages, characters that aren’t human at all, and soldiers and murderers in these games? Unless there’s some setting reason everyone would be scrupulously polite to each other I don’t see how “rudeness” is something that would give anybody pause.

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I think OP meant something along the lines of hurting the feelings of other character for dramatic tension. To be fair, I haven’t seen any CoG, HG, nor WiP that allows us to be that rude it causes such a big impact – not just “eh I’m being sarcastic.”

However, I think is paradoxical that there is no so much rude language or mean jokes. However, there are many games that give us the agency to kill them betray them or steal from them.

It is viewed as normal choices as kill or betrays. Meanwhile, the simple usage of mean words is deemed as worse.

People are more easy to accept direct violence that simple swears and jokes. Both should be able to be part of the agency

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Honestly? I’d feel a writer should have the creative freedom to allow the PC to be, in absence of a better term, a “dick”. I can give more complexity to a PC that you otherwise wouldn’t have.

I’ve experienced multiple situations in CoG’s / HoG’s where I very much would’ve liked to essentially tell a NPC to " fuck off" because I didn’t want to deal with their shit.

The typical “perfect” PC who’s nice / helpful / perfectly aware and basically without flaw is bland and uninteresting to me. I like my PC’s flawed. And the more freedom writers give me to “hang myself with” as someone else in this thread perfectly said the better for me.

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My game about being a teenage hitman attending an elitist prep school will have a lot of options to be mean and especially impolite to people lol. It’s proved very entertaining to write (if exhaustive, I think I set myself up for too many dialogue options/variations -_-)

I don’t play many interactive fiction games as myself, mainly because I tend to choose the most polite and moral choices because… that’s who I am! I would be rude to a stranger who irked me way before I would be rude to someone I know, so I just can’t ever bring myself to be rude to most NPCs.

For indifference (+ snark + rudeness), I think there should definitely be justification for it. As you’ve said, most people are polite most of the time–so if someone can behave otherwise, I think the game itself should provide space for that to make sense for the main character. If that makes sense? Like, there should be elements to the setting, the other characters, or the circumstances that would fuel resentment or indifference–not just being mean for the sake of being mean. I don’t terribly mind that, either, but it just makes for a more compelling read if you’re trying to play an asshole MC, something I definitely do from time to time.

Ooh, another thing is if there’s going to be dialogue options to be rude or snarky, they should be cleverly written. IRL people who are snarky all the time usually become pretty good at it lol

I don’t think that type of character has to be perfect, though. Being overly nice and helpful can lead to others taking advantage of that kindness. It could be at the detriment to the MC’s own goals or well-being (or your allies’). Being ‘perfectly aware’ can easily be twisted into the character flaws of arrogance or willful ignorance–and gives a writer the opportunity to cause inner turmoil in the character if their awareness falls short of being enough in some cases or was actually off the mark when it was important.

I like being able to play cinnamon rolls as long as the game doesn’t return the kindness by default. There’s just so much more angst potential :drooling_face: hurt me more, writers

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It’s been more than a week since I last posted, but I have been reading everyone’s responses! Thank you all for the feedback! It’s been interesting to see your opinions, and I’m certain it’ll prove useful when applying this practically.


I’ll reply to some comments specifically, but otherwise, here’s a summary of what the individual comments seem to suggest:

Glorification of prejudice and abuse is unacceptable, but these issues don’t need to be avoided if the author remains respectful and sensitive and clearly indicates that these attitudes are wrong. [+6]

Rude options and the like shouldn’t exist purely for edginess, as they should be justifiable within the context and provide fun and/or meaningful reactions. [+5]

Meanness has no limit, but it shouldn’t regress into abuse or discrimination without the first point being considered. [+4]

Villains can be evil yet three-dimensional, so they shouldn’t fall into the trap of doing evil things just as a plot device. [+1]

Player agency is the essence of interactive fiction; the ideal is to have a range of choices that satisfies every possible character, but barring that, the larger the selection of responses, the better. [+5]

It’s fun being sassy, sarcastic, cold, and so on, so having them in addition to more polite choices makes for greater diversity and entertainment. [+4]

The player should be allowed to be as rude as they like, as this gives them more agency and grants more depth to the player character. [+2]

Commentary on Posts

Thank you! This is exactly the kind of answer for which I’ve been looking! And based off the many comments following yours, I’d say people tend to agree with you.

Awesome! I’m glad I wasn’t mistaken.

I believe Bandai Namco recently announced a game that sounds a lot like that! I think it was called “Code Vein” or something? Whatever it might be, I think that’s quite the thought-provoking premise. It’s clear how trigger warnings would be useful in such a case, but when it comes to being rude, I don’t think there’s much warning you can give players without whacking them over the head with notices. I don’t suppose being offended at someone’s lack of manners would be appropriate when you also run the risk of being eaten by someone, though. :thinking:

Duly noted! And I think finding that balance is exactly the challenging part. You don’t want to smile and be polite every minute of the day, yet you also don’t want to be so rude, you alienate yourself from the rest of the cast and make it impossible for the story to progress without them breaking character.

Rudeness by itself isn’t a problem, and giving the player the option to be rude and afterwards apologise (or be completely unapologetic!) is something in which several people have already expressed an interest. The issue isn’t as much “hurting the feelings of other character[s] for dramatic tension” as much as it is finding the point where, for most people, rudeness starts becoming excessive and turning into something like verbal/emotional abuse. That point might differ between individuals, hence this topic!

Another very good point! (I love that there are so many of these in the topic. :grin:) Being mean when somebody honestly deserves it can be so satisfying, but the problem is that choices don’t always have the effects you think they do. I feel that accurate broadcasting of a choice’s possible consequences is important. However, I also think that such options simply need to be written well, as the last thing a player would want is to pick an option that turns out being bland or even cringey.

It does make sense, yeah! Some people are just naturally apathetic, sarcastic, aggressive, etc., but having justification makes things more palatable. Does it perhaps also indicate more skill? I’m just wondering, but it seems like more work to have proper justification for the player’s actions, and authors willing to put in more work or who cover their bases by default seem like they have an advantage over those who don’t. Does that make sense? (Watch me turn the tables on you. :rofl:)

I feel like this should be one of the take-home messages of this thread. :joy:


If this topic has reached its end, then I thank all of you for your input! It’s been fascinating hearing all your opinions, and I daresay I’m not the only one who will keep it in mind for future writing projects. If the discussion continues, that’ll be awesome, but it might be a while before I answer again; lab work and research keeps one busy.

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