How should we write women and men into violent scenes?


#1

Hello all! I was browsing a topic on another site when a post caught my eye and made me think. I’ll be copy and pasting it below.

"So, I had a fairly recently debate where a woman was making a big schpeel about she would personally kick the ass of any man who tried to abuse her and offered to beat up any other abusive man for anyone who asked. A lot of internet tough guy ranting, talking all about how she took all these self-defense classes, and could break his bones, and smash his nose into his face, and etc., etc., etc. Then came the inevitable question from someone else, “What if it’s a woman physically abusing a man?” And she immediately started talking about how this was totally impossible because men are stronger and can just easily restrain a woman and walk away.

Ummmmmm, okay.

Does everyone remember that taco commercial that became something of a meme, the one where the family is arguing about whether they should have soft shells or hard shells at their dinner party, and no one is giving in, until the little girl of the family suddenly speaks up and says in Spanish, “How about both?” prompting the family to consider this before lifting the girl on their shoulders and going “YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!” as they realize that they can indeed have both soft and hard shells, and by extension, you have both of certain things in other situations as well?

This is not one of those situations. You don’t get simultaneously be able to beat up any man you want and then say that it’s impossible for a woman to get a physical advantage on a man. When I pointed this out she immediately blocked me. Cognitive dissonance at work."

Now whether or not you agree with it, this poster does present an interesting idea. If a good chunk of people view violence against women as awful in all regards and violence against men as exciting, funny, awful, or justified depending on the situation, how should we write the former into combat scenes and men into serious scenes dealing with an abusive spouse, who possibly may be female? I’m eager to hear your response CoG-ers.

NOTE: The moment I figure out how to do a gosh darn poll I’ll try editing one in


#2

You see, this is what the patriarchy does to men. It makes men out to be tougher and “can’t be abused” by women, because women are lesser and weaker and gentler. Women that grow up in the patriarchy absorb this indoctrination and become complacent in it.

Men can be abused. Men can be violent towards women and women can be violent and abusive towards men. Most often it is men being abusive, but this idea of men being the only ones able to be abusive is downright false.

This is probably because of misinformation in books, for example see here.


#3

I am a woman, And I could tell you by experience that woman could be violent against man or other woman. My mother was violent against my dad cheat him and then abandoned us.

All those women cannot be violent or even rape is pure damn shit lies. Machismo. Maybe is in percentage lot minor but happens all time. Women rape, women kill women do exactly same as men is a shit part of being human.


#4

I’ve heard that argument before, that patriarchy harms men in this manner. While I’m genuinely happy that certain feminst circles are at the very least aknowledging men’s issues, I find patriarchy theory to be too much of an “easy answer”. Power and group dynamics is more complex than that.


#5

I’m not sure about your native country but in the U.S rape statistics is really complicated. See, the CDC doesn’t count female on male rape as actual rape. At least, when it’s simply being forcibly enveloped. To make matters worse men tend not to report violence against them as much as women do, especially when suffered at the hands of women. When adding forced envelopment to the number of rapes, men and women achieve an extremely close number. In fact, though I may be wrong here, in 2016 the number of men raped actually exceeded the number of women raped. Or domestically abused. It’s been a while since I looked at the statistics.


#6

I suffered a rape attempt myself and In my experience and the support group there were almost 75% women 25% men in the group. Men had it harder they were hostility treatment by society and their parents. None was raped by a women but I suspect that is just because embarrassment and being afraid of being mock or hostility treated. I have no doubts about women rape men in many occasions and the social system try to hiding it under the carpet. And the number of men rape by other men is insane too.

The situation is anyone could be raped by anyone. Or anyone could be a assaultant.


#7

I’m so sorry. In my youth group alone there were three individuals who had been sexually abused. It was a rude awakening for me, so to say. It’s extremely difficult to come to an accurate number of male victims for rape and domestic abuse. Most of the time the police will either dismiss it, laugh, or take the side of the woman if women were involved. It’s frustrating.


#8

yes, as I said men had it difficult, most than girls. It is somewhat related to the machismo Women has to be weak and innocent. But that’s bullshit. All human could be dark gender has nothing to do with it.


#9

Completely agreed. Media tends to represent this facg horribly, if at all. I take it CoG-ers remember Wedding Crashers? A very specific scene that was meant to be seen as comedic would be absolutely torn to shreds by both critics and the public if the genders were reversed.


#10

I actually had to defend myself against a girl when i was a kid, about five or eight years old. She just started to beat me, i don’t even remember if i said something, but i don’t think she had a reason to do that, even being taller and stronger than me, with just one punch i was a “coward” and should be ashamed, my class kept talking like i was some villain. Do you know what happened to her? Albeit being the one that started the violence, she was a victim and only got pity, where i would only get people glaring daggers at me.

The thing is, some women only talk about gender equality as long as it benefits them. Now, when the conversation steer towards how a woman can be abusive towards men, all notion of equality falls flat and the “strong independent woman” becomes a fragile, cute little thing that, even practicing several martial arts, can’t overpower any average man and couldn’t hurt a fly.

It’s always the same thing, people using well-intentioned movements to get privilege over others, pay close attention and you’ll notice they don’t even bother to change their flawed reasoning.

Ah, about the polls, the option to build one is at the engine icon next to the emoji.


#11

Well don’t generalize not all women are bad feminists. I am equalitarian. And I really think women shouldn’t be favor like they can’t killing or attack someone. That’s stupid and Machist. Even if they use for their advantage.

Yes there is women using the theme in their favor . So I think violence should be treated equally no matter gender identity of the attacker.


#12

Basically what Mara said.

Violence and abuse are an ever present reality that touches people of all sexes (or lack of thereof) and ages. Anyone can be an abuser and anyone can be a victim. That whole fiasco of women beating men and getting away with by saying males are supposed to endure it, just because they’re “machos”, is nothing but BS - a convenient excuse to justify their sadistic actions against another human being.

Its actually society’s fault for creating these stereotypes and forcing people to live with such stigmas - were everyone equal under the same laws and banners and I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t have so many cases of abuse. Its actually infuriating to think so many people consider these “modern” feminist movements ok. They’re basically a political movement vying for power using individuals in a currently weakened state, individuals who have been abused, as a ladder to attain what they want. Its shameful. Just shameful.


#13

The macho stereotype is generally enforced by men too…


#14

Hi, hardcore feminist here who was, in fact, abused by a man. Very nice. I don’t want this to get into a stupid, hateful topic about which feminism is good or bad or which word should be used, “feminist” or “egalitarian”, because that’s off topic.

This is not a topic discussing the waves and subcategories of feminism. This is “how should we write women and men into violent scenes”.

I say we write it like it actually is. Have people of various genders use the “you’re a man” defence. Have people of various genders who do and do not identify feminist defending him. This is important that some do.

People tend to blame feminism for men being abused, but being an assistant to a psychotherapist, I can tell you, it’s mostly the pressure of men, or patriarchal women, blaming and reinforcing eachother. It’s the same thing - toxic masculinity - that leads to a noticeable emotional stump in cis men.

See here, as found in Geek Feminism wiki:

Emasculation: the idea that there is a range of feminine interests and activities a Real Man would not hold, and that disprove a man’s masculinity regardless of his other actions:

interest in one’s personal looks, cosmetics, dressing up, fashion
being emotional, expressing emotion, crying
appreciating “frivolous” things such as sugary “girly” drinks, romantic styles, cute animal videos, romcom flicks
understanding women, being sympathetic
being silly, giddy
needing help, not-knowing
and so on.

Two of my friends are men abused by their mother, so…


#15

@Laguz
It is related to the topic though. For one to be able to write scenes depicting violence between men and women one must first understand the social impact that sort of thing causes as well as its implications. The reason why I mentioned the “extreme” feminist movement its because, whether we want it or not, is becoming a focal point in our society.


#16

You used the term “modern” feminist, of which I am one. The idea of a frothing, angry feminist who wants to step on men is a distraction tactic used by anti-feminists. Many, many women who abuse men do not identify as a modern feminist.

Blaming abusive women’s standard defences “men are stronger than me, they can’t be abused, he deserved it, im of the weaker gender” on feminism is stupid. It is standard abuse tactics. You hear things as stupid like that all the time from abusers.

You will not find that talk in feminism, it goes entirely against it, as has been said further up the topic. You barely find self-identifying feminists who will use the “I’m strong and independent” and “I’m of the weaker gender” in the same breath.


#17

I was being sarcastic when I said “modern”, I was actually talking about the extreme movement that seeks total supremacy over men. True feminism (the old feminism) stands for equality and that is something I can get behind, but even though you may not consider them under the same banner, they think themselves as feminists.


#18

Sarcasm is difficult to see in writen conversations and unfortunately people completely serious blaming feminism for the dismissive way society treats abused and raped men are not so rare to see argument like that as “so absurd it can only be sarcasm”.


#19

Which does not exist, or if it does, is such a tiny minority I can barely count them.

In my days as a feminist I have found

  1. women who believe trans women are men
  2. women who believe trans women are women after having sex reassignment surgery
  3. racist women who think women of color will taint their own feminism
  4. outside of jokes, about two “women who want to rule over men”.

I’ll tell you why people get confused. They think “women who hate men” means “women who want to rule over men”. This distinct difference being exploited for anti-feminist propaganda has been seen as far back as the suffragettes.

http://historyoffeminism.com/wp-content/uploads/suffragette-plain-things.jpg

Plus my favourite “women who want to be equal are just man-hater abuser” cartoon:

http://thumbs.media.smithsonianmag.com//filer/c8/fd/c8fd1760-2448-4f79-9d34-83bc7d24e751/if_you_love_your_life_1.jpg__1072x0_q85_upscale.jpg


#20

@Laguz
I really wish I could believe that… unfortunately I have seen and heard them. I know they exist and they have become quite vocal in the past 2-3 years. I remember seeing videos and interviews two years ago that created quite a commotion on most social medias, gave birth to memes and the definition “radical feminist” and “nazi feminist”. Its very sad because these women give true feminists a bad rep. If they truly are a minority then they can be quite loud for their size. :confused: