Yooo that’s hilarious lol or when they talk about hair and they slip and say it’s long or flowing I’m just like huh?
Where do these conversations usually take place?
Thank you so much for the lists here! I’ll definitely check them out!
Definitely an organic way to do it thank you for the recommendation!!
It definitely got derailed over blushing smh but thank you for defending me. I definitely didn’t think I was hostile.
Litterally my locs appreciate you so much.
The little things matter so much. I really appreciate this.
I think you’re missing the Forrest for the trees with the blushing discourse. It’s not about blushing. It’s just one singular way whiteness is defaulted. I put links in the op maybe check some out.
The blushing thing kind of became a seperate discussion. I only continue said discussion because I find it interesting.
I appreciate the sources you linked, but I honestly don’t have time to read all of those. My issue was really only with the default white protagonist statement. I know that happens a lot in other games, but I feel like this community has done a pretty good job at keeping that to a minimum. I don’t know everything though.
Adding in all of these customization options, while great for the reader (myself included), presents new problems. I believe @hustlertwo had a post about this (it was super long though so I don’t remember most of it).
//woah I don’t often post here so forgive me for being too blunt or wording things poorly
Anyways, I ALWAYS see writers describing characters (even though they are PCOC) describing blushing as someone ‘turning a vibrant pink’ or ‘flushing a rosy hue’ and… I can say I’ve never met anyone who’s blushed enough to turn any shade of pink unless sunburnt, especially POC. It’s so bizarre to read it.
I can also say for a fact that you are not able to run your fingers through my hair. That just is not possible without tugging my hair and/or losing a finger in my curls. So seeing a character attempt it is beyond funny but also reminds me that the story wasn’t meant for me.
I also would like to comment on this (sorry not trying to fight):
Sure, I get that. I understand that keeping the MC vague enough for the player to fill in the blanks is difficult, but having the player assume that the author isn’t letting them do something seems a bit too presumptive. The author not thinking of something is different from the author not allowing you to do something.
It is different but (and here’s an example) growing up, I can tell you being left out of a game on purpose and another time by accident still hurts and is still harmful. Keeping things vague isn’t that hard, it isn’t extra work, and it doesn’t cost anyone anything. The fact that the author forgets/doesn’t think about traits of a POC sounds bad no matter how you twist it.
Sorry for derailing the thread. It definitely wasn’t my intention, but I’m a tired mess, and couldn’t figure out how to lead it back on track.
All the links to specific asks from writing with color are amazing, since I find that site a bit chaotic to navigate. Lots of reading material!
I understand if some ‘everyday’ racism issues can seem like they shouldn’t have to be mentioned, but it can be super helpful to those of us not living in the US, since we often don’t have those same discussions here, as our history is different, and racism can often appear differently in our lives, than it does in the states.
Every little detail is super helpful, when you’re trying to avoid all the unconscious biases you have learned without realising it.
Just a heads up, as this thread has been getting very circular, I’ve put the topic on slow mode until tomorrow. If you’ve already said your piece, please step back and allow others to speak. In the meantime, I may be moving posts into more appropriate threads so that this one can stay more on topic.
I’m also a black writer hoping to submit her story through Hosted Games.
I personally haven’t added skin colour options to my wip, but there are IF books I’ve been told about where the portrayal of characters of colour could be much, much better. Characters are portrayed using the harmful stereotypes we see in popular media. To reduce this, this is why there are so many resources out there that authors should use, especially if they’re thinking of having a diverse cast in their story.
As a black woman, another thing I noticed in IF games is the lack of diverse hair choices so I made sure to add that in my game. I’m super tired of being able to only choose the ‘coily’ hair option.
Oh, and the ‘blushing’ mention in stories all the time! I literally never mention it when I write, or the term, ‘cheeks go red’ or something along those lines. Not every MC will do that so that’s another thing authors should keep in mind when writing.
From my own personal experience, I’ve had someone ask me whether one of my black characters can just be reduced to the friend role instead of being an RO option.
We do need more POC authors in IF, more representation of ethnic minorities in general so hopefully we start to see that.
About the last message, I must apologize for it, I take a bit out of context, you see, I take it as if authors of dark skin was some kind of taboo, which isn’t truth and Wht it say in your post felt it was undervalue themselves, an it make me feel both frustrated and angry.
But about the bit ‘to signify that i’m not the default white protagonist’ feel like micro-racism to be honest, but in the other way I know what you meant there, and about it, there’s also some games that discard skin colors or even mentions of it from npc characters, knowing or not, that leave to the reader’s own interpretation (Werewolf haven rising games are an example), discarding the character-lock type of character, a pre-established protagonist which has it’s characteristics made by the author.
So again i hope you can forgive my precipitated message.
What worries me a bit is how people now say ‘but you actually don’t really notice X IRL’ etc.
People, we are writing fiction. You write that a character notices another character blushing, looking paler, looking agitated (‘red in the face’) and so forth is to let the reader know and provide a mental image.
Just like we have character think detailed about the location that enter to give the player an idea of where they are.
We pick our words to put images in someone’s head, and when these words tell someone ‘your image is wrong because it’s not mine’ we ought to do better.
I actually remember in Zombie Safe Haven, woody makes a comment about an Mc being Native American (apparently he worked really close with them culturally). It was interesting to see that as I had made so many mcs that it. Really stuck out.
Additional in Thelmas Store you get a bonus for looking like you belong Here, which seems to be connected to being Native American.
You can Play as black Person in the WIP about Nikola Tesla, I chose that, without knowing, since I did not realize the question about the background was the heritage, I guess because english is not my first language but sie I know it can be chosen and will be commented on by Mark Twain later.
Hi there! I just wanted to thank you for all the links you provided, because I wanted to research racial representation for my project. Unfortunately, the place I live in we almost have no racial diversity. And all this knowledge I’m mostly getting from this forum.(I’ve seen a black person only one time IRL, and from a distance… Couldn’t stare it’s impolite, but got really curious.)
I can relate. I had someone asking me if the MC could not be from the country I mentioned in my WIP and I was like the whole story is based on the folklore of that country.
Hm, I think in terms of IF that hair probably won’t be mentioned too much; that’ll be more of a customisable choice for the reader to flesh out their MC. Though, the options given in many IF’s are limited.
I think the ‘blushing’/‘cheeks turn red’ term would be used a lot, it’s used by authors in popular media so I’d think it’s bound to come up in IF.
But yes, as you’ve done in your story, it’s much better to describe what’s happening e.g, blood rushing to your cheeks than to specify your cheek go red - much more inclusive for everyone.
Tumblr. There might be some conversations happening elsewhere too, but tumblr is what I’m familiar with
ETA: although this thread has brought some attention to the way we describe blushing and hair, there are definitely other ways white writers mess up. One of my own mistakes that comes to mind is the way I describe clothing. If I say MC is wearing shorts and a tank top by default, I could be excluding Hijabi players (and others) even though I included a headscarf option at the beginning of the game. This example isn’t specifically racial, but religion and race/ethnicity are interconnected
i’ve never played an MC with that ethnic background, but my tatted and pierced MCs always got that nod from Thelma. I think having dyed hair triggers that too? Could be being Native American, as well, but it isn’t exclusive to that
Maybe the Tattoos are, I Play mostly tatooed chars. The hair is different, you get an extra bonus for pink hair, with Thelma mentioning she always wanted to dye hers pink. But I do Not want to derail this thread as I think it is an important one.
I’m not a writer but a black reader. It does take me out of my immersion a lot when I see things like how my skin is supposed to turn red for anything other than a potentially rare sunburn (yes it’s highly unlikely but still possible for melanin heavy peoples to get sunburned). Or when I see writing about my silky hair as I’m only able to choose the color usually.
I rarely ever bring up this topic because I’m so happy that I can even play a dark skinned woman in a game in the first place, so I’m glad this discussion is being held. In addition, to this I realize I’ve also just grown accustomed to tuning it out or replacing the text in my head with something that more fits me. (I.e. running fingers thru my hair turns into running hand over my hair, patting down my hair, etc in my head)
