# How active should ROs be in romance subplots? **URL:** \ **Category:** Game Development\ **Created:** [September 15, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/how-active-should-ros-be-in-romance-subplots/20496 "2016-09-15T18:13:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Scribblesome](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/scribblesome/32/11703_2.png) [@Scribblesome](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Scribblesome)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/how-active-should-ros-be-in-romance-subplots/20496/61 "2016-09-26T22:23:15Z")
> [@MizArtist33](#): > > Shepard’s initial pick up lines to trigger the romance were the WORST!! Ah, the old reach and flexibility. At least that was an optional line if you didn’t want to romance him. I could never speak to Jacob because Shepard always sounded so flirty and it was completely cringy. ---
**Author:** ![Lithophene](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/lithophene/32/112249_2.png) [@Lithophene](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Lithophene)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/how-active-should-ros-be-in-romance-subplots/20496/62 "2016-09-26T22:23:41Z")
Just to chip in my two cents, I personally dislike any romance with Iron Bull, whether it be the player character or Dorian. His romance just entirely squicked me. To romance him, you have to agree with him knowing what your character wants which is kind of… disgusting? It’s very 50 Shades of Grey where it seems to confuse abuse with BDSM. There’s no option to refute him. 😤 ---
**Author:** ![Ariadne](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/ariadne/32/42362_2.png) [@Ariadne](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Ariadne)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/how-active-should-ros-be-in-romance-subplots/20496/63 "2016-09-26T22:24:45Z")
> [@Adam\_VanCleave\_Perro](#): > > Having a game that doesn’t pretend all romance and cultures are monogamous would be nice. I mean without it being for pervs. Apparently the big problem’s that it’s just super complicated, among other stuff probably but I don’t wanna guess. Be a really neat addition. > [@iris](#): > > Lmao, I could go on but this is getting nitpicky. I tend not to have them both in my party at the same time, because the way they talk to each other makes me uncomfortable. To be honest, I never really heard much of their banter. I tried sometimes once I heard they had it, but I only ever wanted one mage at a time and I love Vivienne too much. (Like, my party was usually, Cassandra or Iron Bull, Sera, and Vivienne…Iron Bull’s banter with Sera, I thought, was adorable. Though I know Sera’s qunari thing always made me a little x/.) Your reason makes of sense. Even if I heard the banter, I’d maybe just assume Dorian liked to play hard to get in general, because I only ever played women (usually qunari \<3.) And I thought their ending stuff was cute. > [@MizArtist33](#): > > And since we’re talking BioWare…I was so irrationally jealous of Tali if I didn’t romance Garrus (oh wait, I had to watch that on YouTube or other friends’ playthroughs because I ALWAYS ROMANCED GARRUS, lol). But that’s another example where, OMG, Shepard’s initial pick up lines to trigger the romance were the WORST!!! I cringed and gritted my teeth to get through it, since almost all of their other banter was 100% adorable, but yeah. That’s a good example for this topic. Creating romantic nuance and flirtatious interaction in a way that feels natural without falling into problematic territory can be tricky. I do like the bar being set high for RO that are more than set decoration, especially whether or not you pursue that relationship. Love Garrus so goddamn much. I didn’t think Shephard’s lines were too bad but maybe that’s because Jennifer Hale. I liked Garrus’s lines, though. Like the thing about scars and when you first meet him in Omega and he’s like…“Just Garrus to you” all coy and specifically for femshep _SIGH_ and I liked reach/flexibility but I’m just terrible ---
**Author:** ![Snoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/snoe/32/149921_2.png) [@Snoe](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Snoe)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/how-active-should-ros-be-in-romance-subplots/20496/64 "2016-09-26T22:48:38Z")
In terms of RO one should allow them their personalities. They should interact with you,each other, and the world. Life is complicated so why can’t their lives be simple. BUT these lives shouldn’t ever cut off player freedom. I for one think it’d be interesting to have a love triangle conundrum BUT the MC should be at the heart of it. These characters are in my opinion intrinsic to the story so they shouldn’t just be sidelined. They should be incorporated. The correct influence can be pretty emotional. But consider yourself as an author as a hostage negotiator and the reader as the hostages taker. It’s your job to control the situation using every means at your disposal but never use ‘don’t won’t or cant’ because you eliminate option and then you start losing hostages.(player interest) Hopefully that analogy worked. Lol ---
**Author:** ![Lizzy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/lizzy/32/38388_2.png) [@Lizzy](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Lizzy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/how-active-should-ros-be-in-romance-subplots/20496/65 "2016-09-26T23:32:10Z")
Interesting see the responses here, when it comes to possible ROs going off and finding someone else I actually like it, makes me feel less guilty for rejecting them. I mean Sarah in Unnatural absolutely broke my heart when I play through and turn her down, hell I take it worse than she does! If she went out and found someone then it would make me feel better than to see her single. Alison from Psy High is another example when I decided to go after Taylor 💔 As for Bioware I avoided Kaiden like the plague to avoid accidental romance flag, same with Jacob, they blurred the lines too much between ‘I’m a compassionate friend’ and ‘I’m interested’ _sigh_ . DA:I I never heard _any_ of Bull’s banter, I didn’t like that character _at all_. Dorian on the other hand was my bestie because he made me giggle. I ended up romancing Sera (I know, shock) but found a lot of glee in the game allowing me to flirt with Cassandra, despite the fact she’s straight (her reactions were super cute) 😆 ---
**Author:** ![MizArtist33](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/mizartist33/32/2281_2.png) [@MizArtist33](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/MizArtist33)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/how-active-should-ros-be-in-romance-subplots/20496/66 "2016-09-27T20:42:08Z")
Exactly! I do like their other conversations. The mutually supportive friendship that underlines their romance is what gets me. Even if you break up, they’re still good pals and Garrus is mature and chill about it, even though you can tell he is disappointed (and then immediately reload and don’t ever break his heart again because OMG WHAT HAVE I DONE). I specifically meant just that one scene that triggers the romance flag for them. Oh, and maybe their awkward “first date” in the ME3 Citadel DLC, but even when I cringe, I’m still smiling and enjoying it. Jennifer Hale IS awesome, no argument from me. I just think Shep’s pick up lines could still use some polish, haha. @Scribblesome makes an excellent point, however…that whole forced flirting with Jacob was way worse. I didn’t romance Jacob (obviously), but I have seen the footage and that “priiiize” thing…just, wow. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Quaintrelle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/quaintrelle/32/85690_2.png) [@Quaintrelle](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Quaintrelle)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/how-active-should-ros-be-in-romance-subplots/20496/67 "2016-09-27T22:18:50Z")
> [@Claymore](#): > > So to sum things up, I think it would be nice if NPC’s showed some initiative rather than just standing around waiting for the MC to notice them. Hallelujah. All the fumbles and foibles and triumphs of a heart’s first pitter-patter are often lost in gaming translation. Real life interactions are a seemingly untapped goldmine. This thread and responses are absolutely beautiful to me in their relevance to my work. I also endeavor my characters to move regardless if MC walks past them or not. I’ve long been struggling with preferences and background relationships purely on the potential players behalf. I need more angles approached than merely my own, so this is a great help. However, I am yet to be sold on the lovers being playersexual… Which also lead to Bioware failing me at every turn with their breathing NPCs and practically canons. Fenris and Isabela? Eh, no, no, no, yet understandable on a purely physical level. Dorian and Bull? Let it crash and burn with the heat of 1000 suns. And seeing how 'tis so prevalent throughout the story and visible in 80% of the playthroughs of others, it is all but unavoidable in any Dorian-related media. Similar to Alistair being king and copious amounts of Liara–Blast that band of rapscallions! Then we have Bioware’s response to criticism of Adoribull’s unhealthy relationship? In the final DLC, make Dorianmancing unflinchingly moot. It truly does end up feeling as if we’ve interrupted a otp. Romantics gamers are a passionate bunch. (curtsies) And, seeing as how I don’t have the desire to inspire such seething over the choices I’ve made in my own creation, (well, maybe a little), I much prefer implementing something like, after interest is rebuffed or avoided, that NPC may later be ambiguously attached. It’s all a balancing act. One I hope to achieve with my own voice in mind, as well as the audience’s. > [@ParrotWatcher](#): > > (It should be clear by now that my WIP is an exercise in causing people misery.) Not unlike the time Sammy went 💥. ---
**Author:** ![Secluded\_Wolf\_X](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/secluded_wolf_x/32/96481_2.png) [@Secluded\_Wolf\_X](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Secluded_Wolf_X)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/how-active-should-ros-be-in-romance-subplots/20496/68 "2019-09-21T22:21:01Z")
> [@Sithwist](#): > > Options like this to give or take the lead are nice and immersive. I’d love to see more of that. I agree, I find myself liking the romance more if I can choose whether or not my MC takes the lead. ---
**Author:** ![CreoleGuy519](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/creoleguy519/32/81414_2.png) [@CreoleGuy519](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/CreoleGuy519)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 1:36am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/how-active-should-ros-be-in-romance-subplots/20496/69 "2019-09-22T01:36:31Z")
I’m fine if the RO attempts to pursue the MC **after** the MC has flirted or initiated romantic interest towards the RO and asks the MC if they’re genuinely interested in them. To me that seems like a fair balance that doesn’t lead to the player being blindsided or pressured by an RO which could lead to them not liking the character. It still gives the player power as it relates to choosing who they want to romance but also shows how the choices of the player/MC are affecting the RO/NPC. ---
**Author:** ![Nocturnal\_Stillness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/nocturnal_stillness/32/100414_2.png) [@Nocturnal\_Stillness](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Nocturnal_Stillness)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2021, 1:18pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/how-active-should-ros-be-in-romance-subplots/20496/70 "2021-04-18T13:18:49Z")
> [@Lizzy](#): > > Interesting see the responses here, when it comes to possible ROs going off and finding someone else I actually like it, makes me feel less guilty for rejecting them. I mean Sarah in Unnatural absolutely broke my heart when I play through and turn her down, hell I take it worse than she does! If she went out and found someone then it would make me feel better than to see her single. I’m actually making some notes for the rewrites to add the romance scenes for the new characters so I’ll look into finding people for those who aren’t romanced to find someone. (I do actually like the fact that although I’m a Talimancer I know that Tali and Garrus can get together so it brings me comfort that if my Shepard dies them I know Garrus would protect and look after her and as my Shepard sees Garrus as a brother that Tali would help look after him as well.) [Previous page](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/how-active-should-ros-be-in-romance-subplots/20496.md?page=3)