Consolidated Gender Lock Discussion Thread

This was actually named as one reason why the infinity series and Guenevere are genderlocked by the authors of these games.

Long story short: It’s frowned upon, but if you write a good enough game, people will play it anyway. Good luck.

(Late to the thread, haven’t read the rest of the replies.)

8 Likes

Well that certainly was an interesting, if not a little lengthy, read. I realize I’m a few years late to the discussion, but all the same, I enjoyed reading what everyone had to say, and yes I read the whole thing. I’m glad to see so many diverse opinions on the matter, it’s given me something to think about moving forward.

The last thread of this kind was locked for causing arguments. Can we please not resurrect another thread of the same kind again to get around the lock.

1 Like

There are two threads regarding genderlocking: one was locked and one is in the plaza. No need to have too many of these running around.

With the recent arrival of Moonrise, there’s been an uptick in discussion surrounding game design decision concerning the gender lock.

This thread was created as a place to discuss the female/queer/nonbinary gender lock, why the game seems to have gotten such pushback, and any other points related to this topic.

Before commenting in this thread, I would encourage you to read the link above to gain an understanding of all sides of the equation. Thank you.

2 Likes

I’m going to move this to a thread where a lot of these issues have been discussed already, so that there is context and the conversation can consider some past opinions and examples.

1 Like

This poll from the old thread seemed to encapsulate things pretty well.

You have about half the voters who don’t like the idea of genderlock but will at least look at a game with it, and a third who reject it outright. Only 80 people out of 400 didn’t care about their MCs gender.

Also, can we revive the use of the acronym C/HOG to describe the singular entity of both labels? I’m a big fan of this. Soooo-eee!

5 Likes

I think it’s completely fine tbh. Most people who make games want to make a story. Sometimes those stories are set around the pc being a certain race, gender or sexuality. You wont really lose an audience, Like for example… For every gender-locked female game i don’t play there’s someone that will run to it for that reason. y’know?

CSG = ChoiceScript Game.

2 Likes

I suppose a less porcine acronym would be preferable. My three-year old would certainly be disappointed; pigs are her in thing right now after watching both versions of Charlotte’s Web and listening to the audiobook.

4 Likes

In regards to Moonrise, I didn’t enjoy despite the fact that it was marketed/made specifically for people like me.

Now, please bear in mind that I only played the demo, did not participate in the beta test, and have not played/bought the full game, so some of my criticism is probably “outdated”.

The fact that it was gender locked didn’t bother me in the least.

What I was disgruntled by was the fact that I was forced to play as a very specific character type (i.e. submissive, for lack of a better word). The fact that this character type is enforced on a female/female presenting character doesn’t bode well for the implications either.

While I understand that railroading is a necessary component to IFs, this felt too railroad-y based on the fact that I couldn’t even control my own reactions to events, or that my reactions didn’t have any impact on how the story played out. It was frustrating, to say the least, and I left the demo feeling resentful of all things.

7 Likes

Glad my poll helped

1 Like

My main instinct is to say writers can write how they want. Not in the sense “don’t like it, make your own game” because that’s stupid. You don’t need to be an award winning author to know when you didn’t like something. In the sense that they are the ones who actually put the work and effort in, they do in fact, get to decide what does or doesn’t fit.

My biggest issue about genderlocked games is that when people talk about the game, it becomes just about that. Nay sayers and supporters alike, talk about all the pros and cons, but say nothing about the actual quality or merits of work, which is what should be judged rather than “This doesn’t meet all my specific criteria for enjoyment.”

So my problem, I guess, is that people only want to focus on that aspect and remove all others in determining if a game is actually good or not?

5 Likes

I don’t think it should be surprising that a choice-game lacking the first and arguably most basic choice should get flak for just that.

That’s not to say I’m against genderlocking, I just think criticism is warranted, especially when authors pump out excuses like “I don’t know how to write those people” or “I specifically designed my world to exclude [minority]” . Moonrise was at least written specifically for queer women and femme-presenting individuals, so criticising the genderlock would be criticising the idea of any media catering to that crowd.

11 Likes

I’ve always had some complicated feelings towards Genderlocking, especially as a long term fan of the CYOA genre.

Personally, I am not fond of genderlocking, though that won’t outright cause me to dismiss a game, the story may be well written regardless of the gender enforced on my character. When a story takes advantage of a genderlock to perpetuate gender stereotypes, that becomes downright frustrating. I don’t want to be forced to play a male character, and then all of the choices I make be of the ‘manly adventuring’ kind. I don’t want to be forced to play a female character, and then all the choices I make be of the ‘sensitive innocent flower’ variety. By genderlocking to enforce a certain behavior, it takes away from the ‘choice’ aspect of a given narrative, and becomes more of a traditional narrative, and if done particularly poorly, it can be downright offensive.

This does not mean genderlocking is inherently bad, or without its uses. If a game is targeting a specific demographic, then a genderlock might make sense in the narrative to draw in that particular readership. If a game is trying to recreate a specific experience; I.E. The Courting of Miss Bennet, which is recreating a book atmosphere where the main character is female, but also targeting a specific group in a specific era.

To summarize, when someone genderlocks a game, the question that should be asked is Why? If the answer is because they may not understand another gender very well, or they don’t want to deal with the complications of programming other genders, then perhaps a more gender ambiguous route should be taken. Even if it feels like a character is somehow more ‘feminine’ or ‘masculine’, going with the ambiguous option may prevent an author from alienating a part of their base, and/or falling prey to typical gender stereotypes.

5 Likes

Perfectly acceptable, provided it is openly stated as part of the story summary.

Every choice or hosted game is a time consuming endeavor, with some wips never seeing more than a few months of development before something, usually real life related, brings development grinding to a halt.

I would rather an author stay within their comfort zone and produce a gender locked fic than suffer extended writer’s block and having the wip end up on permanent hiatus.

While it is perfectly within our rights to state our criticisms or dissatisfaction with certain features we are not entitled to more of the authors time than they alot to us.

In the end it is the authors prerogative whether or not to gender lock and risk sales loss as a result, just as it is the readers choice whether or not to purchase the game.

7 Likes

While there have been a few naysayers, for the most part people agree that genderlocking is a right authors have in their stories.

Of course, for the most part people also agree it’s a right that should pretty much never actually be exercised.

8 Likes

Usually the latter is directed a male gender locked stories, I wonder if the reaction would be the same for female/nonbinary/etc. locked.

Donor seems to have gotten great reception despite being gender locked, so I think the ire is almost always directed at gender locked male stories.

Although I do think the audience plays a part in this.

Forum goers have a pattern of only having a problem with gender locked male stories, but are welcoming of other gender locked stories. Meanwhile, Steam players have problems for stories that aren’t gender choice or a locked to another gender besides male.

2 Likes