Hm, something interesting (albeit very dark), would something that follows along the lines of Wilm Hosenfeld, or even Georg Ferdinand Duckwitz. German’s who helped to save Jews. In the case of something this serious, I’d recommend a pure story. No stats, no inventory, no nothing that can be seen as ‘game like’, save for the story. Probably something unfair too. A good bit of randomization that you have no control over. A story of a man trapped in circumstances he can’t control, just trying to make it through one of the darkest points of history while doing what good he can.
Following on from Reaperoa’s suggestion, why not have your character as a diplomat in Poland (or similar) at the outbreak of WWII. You could choose the country you are from and would have to help as many Jews escape as possible before the Nazis arrive.
Here’s a site with names of diplomats who helped Jews during WWII
http://www.vcn.bc.ca/alpha/Diplomats.htm
We discussed choicescript games at home recently as a means of presentation at school. I thought about a game which would show schoolchildren what happened in the Netherlands 1940-1945. You would start by choosing a gender, religion and political party, and find yourself as a young man or woman in 1940, just before the war started.
Then the events of the war would unroll and you would have to make choices, and sometimes have things happening to you whether you would want them or not.
You could end up in the resistance, collaborating, in hiding for the Germans, fleeing to England to join the allies or send to the Eastern front after you joined the German army,
forced to work in Germany, sent to a camp for being Jewish or Sinti, and much more.
The game would add some historical background to these events, explaining for example how common or rare certain events were.
@HenryCarlisleCullen:
I concur with other comments here that a holocaust “game” would need to be very accurate historically, and while it could be used as a tool to show people what happened,
I think I don’t find it very respectful as entertainment only.
@Mick 94:
A multi-generational game sounds great!
Sure it’s easy to make something based on an event which doesn’t personally affect you!
This sort of thing should be for education purposes only. Barring the Hitler Parodies, I doubt people watched Der Untergang to be entertained.
Basically if you wanted to do a Holocaust type “game”, you’d probably be better off avoiding direct history and do it in fantasy setting format. All the Nazis are substituted for dark elves and all the oppressed groups become gnomes, fairies, halflings, etc.
Presto, you’ve got your non-offensive Holocaust game with magic spells.
No, EndMaster, just no. Replacing something with pointy-eared people isn’t going to disguise the fact that you’re referencing the holocaust and what it will amount to is appropriation.
Also, Nazis = Dark Elves. Really? Because black = evil?
I don’t think he intended it to be racist in any way against blacks or any other humans who happens to have a skin color, but come on lets be honest.
A lot of fantasy shit tends to look at elves as pure, nice, tree loving dudes with fair skin and such, whereas dark elves are more of a corrupted variant with red eyes and black skin who does your typically villain stuff.
And the idea of a game were you play as a soldier of the Third Reich is undoubtedly going to offend some people no matter how you handle it. The uniform and swastika alone has become a symbol of hate and racism and no matter how much the character thinks that what he/she does is wrong some people will find the need to complain loudly.
I’m not saying that a game featuring someone ‘‘working’’ for Germany while Hitler and the Nazis were in power automatically makes it a bad game, it’s just that it’s going to be too easy to just say something like: ‘‘This is a game portraying Nazi soldiers as decent human beings, what the hell is this author smoking?’’
And I don’t think it’s even possible to make such a game without facing a shitstorm of biblical proportions which will get all threads about your game locked because it’s going to spiral into some sort of flamewar.
But all that boring dumb shit aside, such a game could potentially be great for character development, moral choices, historic settings and such.
Also I really liked @Vermander idea about being the captain of a long boat of Scandinavians raiders/traders/colonists/mercenaries (love me the varangian guard)
Hmm. Perhaps the Nazi idea would simply be too controversial for some people, no matter which point of view you put it in or how you say it. Perhaps something more “at home” like the Civil War, would be better…just leave out the vampires, please. If you want to go with the moral problem thing, perhaps something like the African Militia or some Third-World area would be good; you may have to steal/murder in order to survive.
Firstly, there were German soldiers. Nazis are a political party.
Secondly, German soldiers were human beings too and demonising them is dangerous because it excuses a lot of Allied war crimes.
Thirdly, for such a game to work, it’s purpose cannot be one of entertainment.
EDIT: Countries consisting of this so-called Third World aren’t all about killing and stealing from other people every day, you know. We have cities and shit.
@ScarletGeisha has a point…if you go with the WWII route, you will have to be very, very careful in how you handle it…It will have to be more of an interactive novel than anything, with less choices than a CoG game.
Right, I obviously said Dark Elves because I was somehow comparing black people to Nazis. That doesn’t even make sense. I’m not really surprised by the accusations though.
Anyway I used them because typically not only are they usually villains they’re also pretty racist and sadistic in various fantasy stories and they’d be a better substitute as a fantasy “Nazi” than say orcs (Who probably wouldn’t bother with the prison camp and just kill everyone on the spot)
But what I was mainly referring to the possibility of creating a CYOA about the horrors of a prison camp while attempting to avoid the more sensitive issues of the real world. There have been tons of fantasy and scifi stories which have based certain events on the real world and they are still considered viable forms “entertainment” and not educational.
I’m thinking of one example in particular which was a children’s cartoon on saturday mornings called Exosquad which pretty much had the Neo-Sapiens rounding humans up and putting them in extermination camps, Nazi style. Wasn’t really trying to be educational, it was attempting to be entertaining.
Now obviously some people are always going to find the subject matter offensive no matter what skin the tale is wearing and that’s their right, but I was coming up with a possible solution of attempting to do such a story if someone really wanted to attempt it.
Anyway we’re getting off track for historical CYOAs…
How about a game based on the Aztecs and tribal warfare before the Europeans arrived?
That’s the problem with western fantasy. Black is always a shorthand to describe something evil (not to mention that there’s plenty of black-skinned evil races around). Seeing dark elves being referenced always raises my alarm because “NOT AGAIN!” Can’t anyone think of something else other than BLACK-SKINNNED CORRUPTED VERSION OF POINTY-EARED PERFECT NORDIC PEOPLE?
Orcs too have the same problem.
Agreeing with @EndMaster, this looks like it might be derailed soon.
And for the Aztec idea, I think it would be fun to play a game from the viewpoint of a culture I know nothing about except that they dominated large areas around Mexico and were brutal in their offerings to the sun god.
Playing as a pirate or some sort of sea raider anywhere from Caribbean 1600’s to the coast of barbary or sailing with Ching Yih Saoa would be pretty bitching, I have long been wanting to play another game as a sailor such as in choice of broadsides.
Okay, this argument over dark elves and how fantasy races relates to ethnicity ends now. It’s not going to remain civil. I’m not locking the thread (because I like the rest of it), but no more mentioning dark elves. @Shoelip Your comment got deleted because it didn’t and anything to the debate, while just adding fuel to the fire. If you want more of an explanation, PM me.
Also, how can we talk about Nazi Germany civilly, but dark elves set off an argument? Anyone else find that comical?
I would like a game about the conquering of Spain by the Arabs of Northern Africa (referred to as “Moors”)
It is something which has pretty much been wiped out from history, and if it wasn’t for the amazing architecture left behind from their 600 year rule there, it would be gone.
So I would like to play a game about the people who brought civilisation and progression to the heart of Europe when it was still held in the iron grip of the church and the aristocrats of the dark ages.
I’d love to see a game set around 1400 with Europeans travelling across the ocean to the New World. Except: I’d like to see a different New World. As it is, we have the knowledge of what the world looks like and we know where land is. We know the contours of America. If we keep going west, we know we will hit land and the Earth is a sphere, etc. I’d like to see a game set with a different landscape to what’s really there. Exploration on a different planet (with the same flora and fauna, but a different layout) if you will.
It would be fun to play as an explorer, but genuinely not knowing what is ahead.
awsome