I guess players have different opinions if selected dialogue options should be repeated in the narrative (e.g., as in Wayhaven). I’m torn on the issue myself but though maybe there’s a middle ground where the game could optionally repeat your previous choice in italics at the start of the next page? You could do this for all choices, not just dialogue. I guess the code would look something like this.
*fake_choice #"I like pickles." [i]@{repetition_mode "I like pickles."|}[/i] You say the words with utmost finality.
Has anyone tried something like this before? Would it be a desirable feature that’s worth the effort?
It’s so interesting you used multireplace, I generally use *if statements with *implicit_control_flow turned on. I read somewhere CS Studio (is that what it’s called?) doesn’t increase the word count with multi replace properly. (Take my words with a grain of salt because I don’t use this software.)
When I made Inkle games, I believe there’s a toggle to repeat your last option or not. I really appreciated it, especially after returning to a game after it’s been a long time.
Truth be told, I wouldn’t mind adding a toggle repeat for your options in future games. Usually, I don’t because the PC characters will often say the line differently depending on their personality stats or other tracked variables.
A function that works very well and needs way less coding. *implicit_control_flow also needs you to know the *bug commands when to use *gotos without breaking the game!
Adding in toggle repeat options will not be much work at all for me. I can get started adding them today.
You know this would probably make more sense than what I did I think I just defaulted to multi-replace because that’s what I’ve been using for other toggle modes (e.g., hints within choice options, where I think multi-replace is the only real way to do it).
I don’t know about CSIDE, but VSCode does count multireplace words. (It doesn’t, however, count words embedded in variables.
I honestly hadn’t considered this before. I just have the dialogue repeat because I figure people might not remember how they got there if they put the story down for a bit and return. Or, if they accidentally clicked the wrong thing, this lets them know what they clicked.
But, this seems easy enough to do for people who are annoyed by the repetition (if anyone is).
Also, multireplace for the win and probably (definitely) the easiest way to do this, imo. (Then again, multireplace is my favorite ChoiceScript feature…).
Interestingly I find it jarring when option dialogue repeats after the click - it feels as though the PC has said the same thing twice in a row. I’d generally either prefer speech in the option dialogue then a direct response in text, or a summary in the option dialogue eg a clickable “I try to convince her that I’m trustworthy” followed by “You lean in desperately. “I’m in serious trouble,” you say, “and I really need your help. Please.”” (Perhaps with the text dialogue multireplaced based on the PC’s personality or earlier interactions.)
All of which to say, if you’re repeating text it’s sensible to have it be optional as I imagine I’m not the only one who finds it overly repetitive.
Yes, I’m the same way! But I also often forget what I just clicked so I can see the value of both systems (hence wondering about a toggle mode).
I find that other kinds of games that show your previous choices in italics or something similar feel a bit less repetitive to me, because there’s that visual cue that it’s not meant to be part of the actual narration.
The most notable example of folks who agree with you on this would be BioWare writers. David Gaider was quite adamant about it back in the day.
But probably worth noting that, on the flipside, this approach can result in the summary accidentally misleading the player about what the option they pick actually is, with the summary being off.
Yeah that makes sense! For me, I think it works better when it’s a text that you can scroll up to (eg I’m thinking of Disco Elysium, Baldur’s Gate 2 etc) or when it flows more seamlessly like in 80 Days or the behaviour you can make in ink.
Agreed, there’s more of a need to be precise with it (but I think that makes for better/more accurate writing anyway, so that’s good!). I had my share of thinking my Shepard was going to say one thing and then getting something I wasn’t expecting
An idea i’ve been toying with is to present the options in form of concise actions rather than any kind of spoken text. This way you could probably convey the intent without misunderstanding, while still keeping the actual content of the action a “mystery” i.e. fresh.
Yeah, i think this brings a small extra benefit of making presentation of options for the players uniform throughout, instead of random mix of sometimes actions, sometimes dialogue. Not that there’s anything wrong with the latter per se, but, i don’t know. Consistency can feel a bit more polished since it doesn’t force the player to switch gears, so to speak.
This tends to be my go-to. I’ve read comments that being so direct can actually be un-immersive!
I’d rather select a choice that’s something like “I flirt with John Doe” rather than a dialogue or action that I may not understand is supposed to be flirting.
I was shocked when I read that! I think their logic was along the lines of: it makes the game feel more like a game and less so immersive. They felt options should be “invisible” in a sense.
I could see their point; I prefer direct and blunt options even if it feels too game-y.
Wait, what? How is being able to understand what you’re planning to do/say un-immersive? I generally have a grasp on whether or not I’m planning to be hostile or not, IRL.
Yes! I like a variety, but this is what I do when I want to be really clear about the intent behind an action. eg “I flirt with X” or “I square up to argue even though I’m nervous” or similar.
It is kinda interesting, because I’m usually the same way, but for Choice and Hosted Games specifically I think I prefer the dialogue to repeat. Mostly just because there’s no back button, and having a reminder of the option I just picked can be nice when I blank out halfway through a page and need to start over. Some days the brain fuzz can be a lot, you know?
Interesting, I am completely the other way around. If the dialogue is not repeated, I feel like it’s missing something for me, and I am torn out of the story. Also, hard to remember what was said if you don’t play everything in one go. But then I don’t see the choice as actually being IN the story, but something that happens metatextually. So I think my brain sorts it in a different box.
But I think when I write, the main thing is that what fits in a choice is not all that is said, it is either a shortened version, a summary, or the first part of the sentence. So it wouldn’t make sense for me to leave it out since the version that ends up on the page as you click through is a lot longer than what was in the choice.
*fake_choice
#"We can deal with it," I say confidently.
"We can deal with it," you say confidently. "The boss wouldn't have poked the hornet's nest without a plan."
"It wasn't like we didn't know this would happen," Pelayo agrees. "Can't win if you don't make a bet."
Honestly, in this provided example leaving out the “We can deal with it.” part would feel perfectly sensible to me – the way i parse it, this part “happens” when i click the “Next” button and “during” the page transition, after which the scene would seamlessly continue with “The boss wouldn’t have poked the hornet’s nest” etc.
I think this is in part because some of the “Next” buttons have explicit text/actions on them rather than simply “next” which eases the brain into associating the action of clicking on that button with some part of the scene happening “during” the click. This is also why seeing the exact thing your brain already “played” for you can feel jarring for some players. It’s like that glitch in the Matrix.
I kind of glossed over this when I first read your post but daaaaaang that’s a game changer! Thanks for sharing, I had no idea you could do that and have been going crazy with *gotos
Also I started a Tumblr poll on the topic and there seems to be a fair amount of interest in the toggle mode so far, so I may just try implementing it. I also do try already to subtly echo the choice in the narration itself to remind people what it was without being overly repetitive, so hopefully it plays smoothly both ways.
I think I just defaulted to multi-replace because that’s what I’ve been using for other toggle modes (e.g., hints within choice options, where I think multi-replace is the only real way to do it).
